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Why do you grief?


HooverRAD
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2 hours ago, Poggy said:

No one used the word 'serious'.  I have been at pains to point out that the negative impact is minor - look through my posts.  You are now merely using a rhetorical device, creating a hyperbolic strawman, so as to paint your opposition as absurd as a means to justify your own immoral behaviour.

Let me spell it out one more time as clearly as I can, this time presenting my own personal take rather than a more abstract ethical argument that seems to be too easily misunderstood: 

I role play as an outlaw, I treat NPCs very badly, doing things I'd never do irl (maybe, on a good day).  But I don't grief PCs who share the RDO playground with me.  

Why?  

Because I know that it is irritating to have time spent hunting/grinding or a quiet moment fishing or whatever stolen from me by some rando headshotting me whilst I am unable to defend myself.  It's not a major problem, it's not a trauma, but it is a minor irritation.  And many people, as you can see on thread where and elsewhere, also find it an irritation - and for some it's annoying enough to not play in the playground at all.

So, given that I gain nothing, why would I want to affect someone, albeit in a minor way, negatively?  I can RP an outlaw with NPCs, I can test my skills in competitive series matches or missions - what can I possibly gain by deliberately irritating other people?  There can be only one answer, it would be because I enjoy the very fact that I am causing minor distress, and bask in that knowledge.  Their loss and emotional reaction would have to be my source of enjoyment.  And I refuse to be this sadist-lite, this troll, this bully.

I don't want to hurt people, however trivially, for my own enjoyment, and I don't want run the risk of genuinely upsetting someone, perhaps to the point of quitting the game, simply because I enjoy being an ass without repercussion.

I gain nothing? I gained EXP for every time I put ya down. I gain the stuff you spent time grinding for. You spent 30mins hunting that deer.. I got it in less than 5 minutes from taking it from ya. Plus I gain actual game play experience when you can’t let it go and try to come after me. So yea I gained a lot. 

Seriously you need to seek help. I am not talking trash. You’re probably the type to rage quit games that you can’t figure out or beat and resort to destroying your things.  Its all within the rules of the game. If something is irritating you then why even play? Maybe its time to move on?  When I am just terrorizing other players and a posse comes in to save them.. do I cry about how the hero posse stopped the bad guy? Hell no.. they have their job and I have mine. 

I already stated running from npc lawmen is pretty easy.. actual players in a challenge.. PvP show down series is fine but its all confined into one space.. i can’t run away and lure people into a terrain that will work to my advantage. Its a better cat and mouse game.

Strawman arguement? Lol ok.. I guess you still haven’t figured out how the game is played. I am done with ya. I would say have fun and enjoy the game but looks like you won’t cause there aren’t rules in place to let you do what you want. I know I am playing it how I want to and loving every bit of it.

Call me crazy but why are people complaining about a game where you have to kill and steal  from others.. and when it happens to them in the game they get butt hurt about it.. 🤨

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Xp?  You kill people skinning animals for the xp?  And that is better than grinding?  And you took the deer?  And by griefing people who can't shoot back you gain 'gameplay experience'?

Are you playing the same game I am, because that's just nuts! Lol :)

At least I'm glad you've stopped trying to offer any kind of reasonable moral justification for your trolling, you above post makes it very clear to everyone why you do what you do, and what kind of character you are.  It's actually kinda funny :)  Unsportsman like conduct is not part of your vocabulary, neither is accountability - it's their fault for being butt hurt, lol.

Sure, let's leave it there, I'm happy with the outcome of our discussion. :)

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4 hours ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

See I’m all good with griefing in that manner. After all, it is the “Wild” West  the land has not been civilized yet and  Just like the zombie survival or post-apocalyptic games, a person would most likely encounter others that are “opportunistic predators” ie out to loot and kill and cause carnage. I think the law/outlaw in-game dynamic would be fun as well...

Right! I think its fun. I been hunting and had someone headshot me taking my goods. I just laugh and now its on. It is what it is.

Its the wild west alright. 

I hunted birds and a guy came up to hunt birds also. Everything was cool.. i saw another  pink dot headed towards him and figured it was his posse member. I look over and the guy who showed up had him hogtied. I shot the other guy and we both chased him away.. then went back to hunting birds. After about 15-20mins I shot him to take his birds but still lol.. 

if someone is chasing you all around the map then yea thats a douche move. If we are passing each other and I pop ya.. just let it go.. the moment you try to chase me down cause you can’t let it go.. its a fued now..

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1 minute ago, The Ugly said:

if someone is chasing you all around the map then yea thats a douche move.

Sorry to restart our convo, but I'm curious about this.

Why is this a douche move, but backstabbing a herb collector isnt?  Surely by your own standard the map chaser is just playing the game within the rules same as you?  They're RPing an outlaw, like you?

The prima facie hypocrisy is breath taking.  What am I missing here?

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44 minutes ago, Wooky0117 said:

well, sense you asked...

i role play the living fxxx out of games, like i choose a role and stick to it. in the case of RDR2 i've kinda always wanted to know what it would be like to be an outlaw running through a town, killing everyone, taking whatever i could and heading for the hills. The role i've chosen to play is bandit. so in my eyes i'm doing nothing wrong. from your perspective i'm a monster sent to ruin your day, well from mine you're just another mark to take out and steal what i can and move on.

We need to posse up! I was in a max posse and when other players saw a massive pink dot headed towards Valentine they all ran.. 

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As much as some of us hate this, it is part of the game. People want to be outlaws and enjoy this. Okay, I get it and I respect their right. However, the people who gang up on a player and rope and kill the person over and over as they re-spawn,  are as real people showing no respect for other players. I hope there will be a balance where people move on and not just make another player's game ruined.  I doubt this will happen because there are two type of people who grief. Ones who are playing and having fun, and those who are just assholes in real life that bought the game. I don't think griefing should be banned, but the people who do it to the extreme should be. It is my opinion and it is worth absolutely nothing.

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On 25 December 2018 at 5:45 PM, The Ugly said:

 I log on and all 31 players on the server get a notification to come after me, that would be a great game. 

 

This can be worked towards.  If you post your username, we can spread it across the Internet that you really like it when people track you down and grief you.  Game?

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21 hours ago, Hardluck_Harry said:

As much as some of us hate this, it is part of the game. People want to be outlaws and enjoy this. Okay, I get it and I respect their right. However, the people who gang up on a player and rope and kill the person over and over as they re-spawn,  are as real people showing no respect for other players. I hope there will be a balance where people move on and not just make another player's game ruined.  I doubt this will happen because there are two type of people who grief. Ones who are playing and having fun, and those who are just assholes in real life that bought the game. I don't think griefing should be banned, but the people who do it to the extreme should be. It is my opinion and it is worth absolutely nothing.

Are there griefers who constantly chase people down killing them over and over? I can see how that gets annoying. 

Most of the time for me when I put down a guy and take his goods to sell at the butcher, I am done unless he respawns in front of where I am going then he is getting shots fired his way. If he respawns and avoids me.. He can go back about his business, but he can’t let it go so he wants to chase me down.. I have to put him down again.. and again.. then its me chasing him down a few times until he gets the point except he doesn’t get the point and wants revenge still. If he puts me down and gets the best of me thats fine.. but he still wants more and starts to chase again.. no who is griefing who? What does he have to gain? I have no deer or such for him to steal.

 All his actions are fine to me.. its part of the game.. now becomes who is the one annoying who? Part of the game is being an outlaw.. stealing and killing.. when someone is butt hurt and couldn’t let go but chases down and respawn killing someone who was doing what the game lets you do then who is now in the wrong? Me personally I see no right or wrong cause I like the action of a shoot out.

Its like someone here. I said I am done.. fine.. the person agreed to drop it but no.. the person keeps going and going wanting to start it back up. I did my part and have taken the high road. Just like the game.. Some people just need to let it go and go about their own business. 

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4 hours ago, The Ugly said:

no who is griefing who?

Still you if you started it.  As far as I'm concerned he is within his rights to kill you all day everyday if you killed him without provocation.

By the way, did you see my. generous offer above?  We can help you get attacked more if you enjoy it.  Just share your RDO username.

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This one dude, must have been a kid, he kept screaming and doing the dumbest things. Like I was trying to hunt and he kept screwing with me. A few of his friends joined and just followed me around. So I started talking to them when I noticed my buddy wasn't AFK anymore. I had him sneak up behind the three of them and kill them all. When they respawned we kept hunting them down for a good hour. If you don't let me fake hunt in virtual reality, you will become my target.

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It's easy for a game like this in it's current state to turn a lot of players into griefers, the game doesn't leave you with that much else to do.

I never attack players without reason, I only go after players who either choose to shoot me on site or those that are involved in Freeroam work that I can benefit from.

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I agree that boredom increases the amount of griefing online.  It's odd that there are a variety of simple fixes, from just adding more butchers to giving more content, that'd reduce the griefing yet they're not implemented.  I expect it's just a matter of time.

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On 12/25/2018 at 5:14 PM, The Ugly said:

I gain nothing? I gained EXP for every time I put ya down. I gain the stuff you spent time grinding for. You spent 30mins hunting that deer.. I got it in less than 5 minutes from taking it from ya. Plus I gain actual game play experience when you can’t let it go and try to come after me. So yea I gained a lot. 

Seriously you need to seek help. I am not talking trash. You’re probably the type to rage quit games that you can’t figure out or beat and resort to destroying your things.  Its all within the rules of the game. If something is irritating you then why even play? Maybe its time to move on?  When I am just terrorizing other players and a posse comes in to save them.. do I cry about how the hero posse stopped the bad guy? Hell no.. they have their job and I have mine. 

I already stated running from npc lawmen is pretty easy.. actual players in a challenge.. PvP show down series is fine but its all confined into one space.. i can’t run away and lure people into a terrain that will work to my advantage. Its a better cat and mouse game.

Strawman arguement? Lol ok.. I guess you still haven’t figured out how the game is played. I am done with ya. I would say have fun and enjoy the game but looks like you won’t cause there aren’t rules in place to let you do what you want. I know I am playing it how I want to and loving every bit of it.

Call me crazy but why are people complaining about a game where you have to kill and steal  from others.. and when it happens to them in the game they get butt hurt about it.. 🤨

And you sir are a pariah.  See YA in the private lobbies! Oh wait, no I won't , I only invite adults to my private lobbies.  People that understand that  although the cover of a book is what you see first, you are still supposed to  read the inside  wordy words too. And please, if  YA are technically considered an adult, don't  admit it.... just don't.   

 

Also, do YA even understand what you are typing?:

"You’re probably the type to rage quit games that you can’t figure out or beat and resort to destroying your things."   

 

YA do realize that  your style of gaming is literally spending time destroying others things because you can't figure the game out yourself. YA style is the equivalent of being a lowly purse snatcher because YA can't wrap YA little walnut around robbing banks.  

 

I know my above statements sound kinda stupid... It's probably  my  excessive use of "YA".  

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12 minutes ago, madfretter said:

And you sir are a pariah.  See YA in the private lobbies! Oh wait, no I won't , I only invite adults to my private lobbies.  People that understand that  although the cover of a book is what you see first, you are still supposed to  read the inside  wordy words too. And please, if  YA are technically considered an adult, don't  admit it.... just don't.   

 

Also, do YA even understand what you are typing?:

"You’re probably the type to rage quit games that you can’t figure out or beat and resort to destroying your things."   

 

YA do realize that  your style of gaming is literally spending time destroying others things because you can't figure the game out yourself. YA style is the equivalent of being a purse lowly purse snatcher because YA can't wrap YA little walnut around robbing banks.  

 

I know my above statements sound kinda stupid... It's probably  my  excessive use of "YA".  

Lol I wouldn’t join your private lobby even if you were to invite me. I don’t was my time on snowflakes who can’t handle what they got themselves into and cries for changes. Maybe try minecraft? Or Cabela big game hunter? 

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4 minutes ago, The Ugly said:

Lol I wouldn’t join your private lobby even if you were to invite me. I don’t was my time on snowflakes who can’t handle what they got themselves into and cries for changes. Maybe try minecraft? Or Cabela big game hunter? 

Your wit  astounds me. 

 

"I don’t was my time on snowflakes who can’t handle what they got themselves into and cries for changes."

 

Do you realize that all you do as a griefer is waste your time on "snowflakes who can't  handle what they got themselves into"? 

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On 12/25/2018 at 3:30 PM, Poggy said:

Sorry to restart our convo, but I'm curious about this.

Why is this a douche move, but backstabbing a herb collector isnt?  Surely by your own standard the map chaser is just playing the game within the rules same as you?  They're RPing an outlaw, like you?

The prima facie hypocrisy is breath taking.  What am I missing here?

Chasing someone around the map killing them over snd over to me is just harassing someone at that point. Yes they are RPing an outlaw but when you go out of your way to chase someone. Then you are being a douche bag. Not sure where you got the backstabbing a herb collector from but I usually don’t stop to observe. I assume you bagged a buck and I putting you down to take it. If there was an option for me to rob you without killing you, I would go that route, but its easier to just put ya down and safer for me.

On 12/27/2018 at 1:26 PM, Poggy said:

Still you if you started it.  As far as I'm concerned he is within his rights to kill you all day everyday if you killed him without provocation.

By the way, did you see my. generous offer above?  We can help you get attacked more if you enjoy it.  Just share your RDO username.

And I agree the person is within their rights. This is where I put someone down over and over for trying to get revenge but then turn around and act like they are being chased around. I usually ride off and get chase.

I saw your generous offer above. If there are people who want to play play the game I will gladly give my gamertag to them. I don’t want to post it in public just to have people message me to talk smack about what I do. Which is probably going to happen if I do add my gamer tag. If you want to play cops and  robbers  to prevent me from causing chaos and protecting people then lets jump on the game. Thats the challenge I look for in the game. 

 

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6 minutes ago, The Ugly said:

Chasing someone around the map killing them over snd over to me is just harassing someone at that point. Yes they are RPing an outlaw but when you go out of your way to chase someone. Then you are being a douche bag. Not sure where you got the backstabbing a herb collector from but I usually don’t stop to observe. I assume you bagged a buck and I putting you down to take it. If there was an option for me to rob you without killing you, I would go that route, but its easier to just put ya down and safer for me.

And I agree the person is within their rights. This is where I put someone down over and over for trying to get revenge but then turn around and act like they are being chased around. I usually ride off and get chase.

I saw your generous offer above. If there are people who want to play play the game I will gladly give my gamertag to them. I don’t want to post it in public just to have people message me to talk smack about what I do. Which is probably going to happen if I do add my gamer tag. If you want to play cops and  robbers  to prevent me from causing chaos and protecting people then lets jump on the game. Thats the challenge I look for in the game. 

 

In the last 2 days your self description has gone from a troll stealing  pelts to a bodyguard for hire and back again.  It seems the only challenge you have  with this game is figuring out what version of troll you want to be.

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43 minutes ago, madfretter said:

In the last 2 days your self description has gone from a troll stealing  pelts to a bodyguard for hire and back again.  It seems the only challenge you have  with this game is figuring out what version of troll you want to be.

Maybe you should go back further than the last 2 days where I said I have helped people out before. I will kill someone hunting to get what they have but I can help someone if they message me for help. Youre acting like I been going back and forth the last two days. The only challenges I have in the game is I can’t play it how I want. Having NPC chasing me is not that challenging. I want to shot everyone and build up a bounty on my head. I want to be on the wanted dead or alive posters. 

I was doing a treasure search and it just so happens someone was in the same area doing the same. I was ready to shoot him but he messages asking for help to find it. He was lucky his treasure box was in the same spot as where mine was. Just cause I’m an outlaw doesn’t mean I wouldnt lend a hand. If Cola kid and his posse need help catching someone and I am asked I will help. It won’t betray or backstab someone but after the job is done and we both walk away.. the next encounter we have might not be as friendly..

what would be the proper way to do this? I tell you give me your pelt and I won’t shoot you. You give it up and we then both walk away? Lol I highly doubt you would give me your pelt and if you do.. I am sure I will get shot as I am walking away lol

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30 minutes ago, The Ugly said:

Maybe you should go back further than the last 2 days where I said I have helped people out before. I will kill someone hunting to get what they have but I can help someone if they message me for help. Youre acting like I been going back and forth the last two days. The only challenges I have in the game is I can’t play it how I want. Having NPC chasing me is not that challenging. I want to shot everyone and build up a bounty on my head. I want to be on the wanted dead or alive posters. 

I was doing a treasure search and it just so happens someone was in the same area doing the same. I was ready to shoot him but he messages asking for help to find it. He was lucky his treasure box was in the same spot as where mine was. Just cause I’m an outlaw doesn’t mean I wouldnt lend a hand. If Cola kid and his posse need help catching someone and I am asked I will help. It won’t betray or backstab someone but after the job is done and we both walk away.. the next encounter we have might not be as friendly..

what would be the proper way to do this? I tell you give me your pelt and I won’t shoot you. You give it up and we then both walk away? Lol I highly doubt you would give me your pelt and if you do.. I am sure I will get shot as I am walking away lol

So if when a player spawns in we are suppose to message everyone before they just ride up and shoot us, that is if we can get spawned in and have time to message everyone.  hahahahaha.  Most players that grief aren't looking to team up if they are attacking you.

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35 minutes ago, The Ugly said:

 

what would be the proper way to do this? I tell you give me your pelt and I won’t shoot you. You give it up and we then both walk away? Lol I highly doubt you would give me your pelt and if you do.. I am sure I will get shot as I am walking away lol

Maybe challenge someone to a duel. Put their items against yours. I'd be down for that.

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1 hour ago, madfretter said:

Maybe challenge someone to a duel. Put their items against yours. I'd be down for that.

Lol you would really wager your 3 star pelts against someone who has a 1 star? All you have to do is deny the challenge over and over. I know if the role was reverse I wouldn’t take a challenge. You have more to lose and they have more to gain.

Don’t get me wrong. I would duel people for their goods cause I like the challenge, but to majority of people it would be easier to just shot you and take it. 

R* gives griefers xp for kills and tracks the number of players killed. If getting xp was removed and taking pelts from someone wasnt an option. I can honestly say I would just pass other players on by. There has been some that has asked why and that is part of the reason why I do it. Not looking for anyone’s approval for my justification. I have to at least get something for it. If you gain nothing for shooting another player and someone does it.. thats just being a douche..

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9 minutes ago, The Ugly said:

Lol you would really wager your 3 star pelts against someone who has a 1 star? All you have to do is deny the challenge over and over. I know if the role was reverse I wouldn’t take a challenge. You have more to lose and they have more to gain.

Don’t get me wrong. I would duel people for their goods cause I like the challenge, but to majority of people it would be easier to just shot you and take it. 

R* gives griefers xp for kills and tracks the number of players killed. If getting xp was removed and taking pelts from someone wasnt an option. I can honestly say I would just pass other players on by. There has been some that has asked why and that is part of the reason why I do it. Not looking for anyone’s approval for my justification. I have to at least get something for it. If you gain nothing for shooting another player and someone does it.. thats just being a douche..

No, but I'd wager my pelts against a lake lure or some level 2 tonics... Dollar for dollar type stuff.   Sounds like we need to petition R* to remove xp and pelt transfer...lol

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19 minutes ago, madfretter said:

No, but I'd wager my pelts against a lake lure or some level 2 tonics... Dollar for dollar type stuff.  Sounds like we need to petition R* to remove xp and pelt transfer...lol

Griefers wouldn’t take you up on that challenge. I would do it just cause it would be fun.

Lol that is the reason why I do it. If R* removed it that stuff then looks like I will be requesting to join your hunting party. 

The game needs more towns and some of these towns can be a safe haven for out laws where npc law mens dont enter but if a player who wants to be a law man enters, the npc outlaws will gun them down. while other towns will have npc law men who shoots outlaws on site with no questions ask of they step foot into town. Man you know how cool that would be if there were law men patrolling a popular fishing spot. You can sell your pelt in a safe area but if you want double the payout you can risk it going into the bad lands and selling it there.  This is just how I wish the game would be.. a good balance of good guys and bad guys.. fighting it out.. i can make good with someone with honor and trade booze which is worth more in good towns for good pelts which is hard to come by in a run down area.

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6 minutes ago, The Ugly said:

Griefers wouldn’t take you up on that challenge. I would do it just cause it would be fun.

Lol that is the reason why I do it. If R* removed it that stuff then looks like I will be requesting to join your hunting party. 

The game needs more towns and some of these towns can be a safe haven for out laws where law mens dont enter, while other towns will have npc law men who shoots outlaws on site with no questions ask of they step foot into town. Man you know how cool that would be of there were law men patrolling a popular fishing spot. Now I have more than just a player to contend with lol.

That's what this game should be. R* shouldn't be relying on us to be the enemies, they need to make use of their A.I.

 Speaking of hunting ,in an hours time between fishing, small game, pelts and meat  I make about  150.00.   What are you getting from your pelting in an hour?

 

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Just now, madfretter said:

That's what this game should be. R* shouldn't be relying on us to be the enemies, they need to make use of their A.I.

 Speaking of hunting ,in an hours time between fishing, small game, pelts and meat  I make about  150.00.   What are you getting from your pelting in an hour?

 

 

Right! If it was like that I think some people would be more likely to form a partnership but I can see a lot of backstabbing happening. I know if you were looking to sell pelts for more in the badlands (and only you can get more to prevent backstabbings) I would guard and try to provide security for you because of past dealings. 

Not much. I don’t hunt or fish as much as you do. I make most of my money in showdown and some money from looting NPC. I spend a lot of time doing pvp. When I get a treasure map or feel like exploring I get into free roam.  Reason why I said I take out whats in my path lol. I am going for the treasure. The PvP part of the game is ok but its just confined into a small area and no horse.

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On 12/27/2018 at 10:34 AM, The Ugly said:

Are there griefers who constantly chase people down killing them over and over? I can see how that gets annoying. 

Most of the time for me when I put down a guy and take his goods to sell at the butcher, I am done unless he respawns in front of where I am going then he is getting shots fired his way. If he respawns and avoids me.. He can go back about his business, but he can’t let it go so he wants to chase me down.. I have to put him down again.. and again.. then its me chasing him down a few times until he gets the point except he doesn’t get the point and wants revenge still. If he puts me down and gets the best of me thats fine.. but he still wants more and starts to chase again.. no who is griefing who? What does he have to gain? I have no deer or such for him to steal.

 All his actions are fine to me.. its part of the game.. now becomes who is the one annoying who? Part of the game is being an outlaw.. stealing and killing.. when someone is butt hurt and couldn’t let go but chases down and respawn killing someone who was doing what the game lets you do then who is now in the wrong? Me personally I see no right or wrong cause I like the action of a shoot out.

Its like someone here. I said I am done.. fine.. the person agreed to drop it but no.. the person keeps going and going wanting to start it back up. I did my part and have taken the high road. Just like the game.. Some people just need to let it go and go about their own business. 

I am not talking a feud that starts. What I mean is when a posse kills you and you respawn and they are killing you again and again. Since I have gotten a little higher in the levels, I don't see this as much. The feud part is part of the game.

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'Poggy' is totally correct on this issue. 'The Ugly' is obviously IRL a sociopath who secretly desires others to be in pain for his personal enjoyment. Having read all the sickness he has written, makes me feel very sad for his family and children, for they are obviously his targets when he can't get his 'rocks off', griefing innocent players just trying to quest and grind happily at their own pace in an on-line game. I feel very sorry for people who think like players such as 'The Ugly'. Society could do well to be rid of them. You want to PVP, then join the PVP parts of the game and leave 'open world' alone. 'The Ugly' is simply a 'spoilt brat' mentality that somehow got a job and raised a family. I will not be surprised to see to him quit playing when Rockstar brings PVE, private servers to on-line, as he will never be satisfied hurting PVP players, as much as griefing innocents. These type of people hurt animals in real life. You will never win an argument with him Poggy, as he is an  'inhumane sociopath', that will never ever see the perspective of how simply evil he is in real life, .. just acting out his fantasies in on-line games, .. until he gets his 'real hit' in real life whenever he finds the chance to do so. He will be on the news one day having murdered someone, a family, or maybe his own. We will never know, as 'in games, he can remain anonymous, banging his chest of how 'right it is to grief players'. 'The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly' .. Clint Eastwood would know that you aren't just being the 'Bad outlaw', .. you are just a very 'Ugly' example of the most evil soul a human being can have ....       

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Thanks for the support, but I think you've over-egged your pudding. Bit strong.  I'm not sure there's a direct line from troll to murderer, for example.  I suspect the hyperbole here is ... Deliberate?

But I do believe his actions and attempted justifications belie a character flaw, yes, a bullying mentality, and that probably does have real life correlations. 

Edited by Poggy
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