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Pinkertons are still buttheads.


buttlint
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49 minutes ago, buttlint said:

Sorry to take you offsite and watch out for spoilers. Just a fun story involving RDR and the Pinkertons.

https://kotaku.com/the-pinkertons-are-still-around-suing-over-red-dead-re-1831750643

Sue everyone for anything you can dream up has been the motto for people all over the world for the last 50 years or so.  Pinkerton's will lose (and now i'm going to be sued for typing their name).

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1 hour ago, Kormath said:

Sue everyone for anything you can dream up has been the motto for people all over the world for the last 50 years or so.  Pinkerton's will lose (and now i'm going to be sued for typing their name).

I am ashamed to be a Swede since the Pinkertons are now owned by a Swedish company. I really hope that R* wins this really idiotic and silly case. The Pinkertons are an integrated part of old west history and even if I know next to nothing about American judicial practices, it really seems silly that one should not be able to use their name in fiction. What is next, Detroit suing because there is a game using that cities name? 

 

I am so so tired of BS like this and once again, I am ashamed of being a Swede.

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Take Two immediately counter-sued for the right to include the two characters in the game.  

3 minutes ago, Minimoni said:

I am so so tired of BS like this and once again, I am ashamed of being a Swede.

Being a Swede has nothing to do with it IMO.  Pinkerton doesn't represent you or your fellow citizens, right?  ....it's just a company regardless of who they're owned by.

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40 minutes ago, Minimoni said:

I am ashamed of being a Swede.

NEVER be ashamed of being a Swede (warning, slightly NSFW for language):

All kidding aside, things to be ashamed of should have more to do with what you've done as a person than where you're from.

Me?  I should be ashamed of the time I crapped my pants at work.  But it's going to take more than that to rattle my cage.

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What a campy but watchable movie, although that "Stitch Jones" character Peebles co-starred as was annoying as hell.  There are a couple others as well but he was probably the most irritating to me.  .......thought so back when it released too.

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58 minutes ago, buttlint said:

Ashamed? 

Quit using those fancy European words that Americans don't understand!

Hey! I definitely felt ashamed when my buddy caught me scrolling through facebook yesterday!

I know better than that...

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1 hour ago, Truth said:

Well I was in my car on my lunch break, I'll let you figure that one out.

If you are a Florida resident, I don't see a problem.

If you're not, then just look out for Pinkertons.

Edited by buttlint
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The Pinkerton National Detective Agency is present in Red Dead Redemption 2 as a major opposing force. Funny how it turns out that they'd become something akin to villains in real life as well. Pinkerton Consulting & Investigations, the currently existing incarnation of what was once the very real Pinkerton agency is taking Rockstar to court over their depiction in the game.

Andrew Milton and Edgar Ross, the latter of whom would go on to play the main antagonist of Red Dead Redemption, don't exactly paint the agency in a positive light. Milton is a sadistic, racist, murderous, hypocritical psychopath and Ross is only slightly more reserved. However it is the mere reference to the Pinkertons and the use of their actual badge that is called out in the suit.

Edgar-Ross-800x450.jpg

Pinkerton is seeking damages paid either in a lump sum settlement or via royalties from Rockstar. Should the developer, and parent company Take-Two Interactive, refuse, Pinkerton will sue for copyright infringement among others.

This isn't Rockstar's first dance. The developers have faced down lawsuits of all kinds regarding just about every game in their library, and they aren't letting up. In their countersuit, they argue that Red Dead Redemption 2 is protected by the first amendment, and the historically accurate setting means that the existence of Pinkerton needs to be addressed and their presence is lawful.

Additionally, other games - like Bioshock Infinite - and a multitude of other media use Pinkerton agents and depict their badge. This is the first time the company has made any legal moves, and Rockstar argues they should have done so earlier with those other properties for this to hold any water.

Put simply, Defendants cannot use trademark law to own the past and prevent creators from including historical references to Pinkerton agents in depictions of the American West.

Prior to the creation of the BOI (which later developed into the modern FBI) the United States government used private companies to handle intelligence gathering and law enforcement in certain areas of the nation. It's historically accurate to depict Pinkerton agents as de facto law enforcement agents in the Wild West. Historically, the agency has been involved in some highly controversial practices, so the depiction of Milton doesn't exactly land far from home.

According to Rockstar's legal team, creative works which seek to depict a historically accurate vision of the old American West are legally allowed to incorporate real individuals and businesses without it being a trademark issue. The judge will likely rule in favor of Rockstar in this matter, but we'll follow the story as it develops.

Pinkerton_badge.png

The team also raises the question of this setting a poor precedent should the Pinkerton suit be allowed to proceed, as it would indicate that the stifling of historically accurate creative works over trademarks is possible. This, in turn, could lead to historical revisionism via lawsuit, should such works ever shine a negative light on the poor past practices of companies that still exist.

We're eager to hear about how this lawsuit develops.

The post Real World Pinkertons Sue Over Red Dead Redemption 2 appeared first on RDR2.org.

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Gotta love how this trend has been trucking since the mid 80s. So many people want to get money out of people any way they see fit. My mother's friend who was a neighbor growing up was pulling on the fence while talking to my mom and the board snapped. She fell on her back and ended up needing surgery. She sued my parents because the fence wasn't stable enough for her to be pulling all her weight on it. 

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  • 2 months later...

Not too long after the release of Red Dead Redemption 2, news of a lawsuit filed by the still existing, real-life Pinkerton Consulting and Investigation company popped up.

Take-Two Interactive Software, parent company of developer Rockstar Games, filed a countersuit protecting its right to use the historically significant name in its work of fiction. Now, the situation has seemingly been resolved.

Pinkerton and its agents aren't depicted in the most positive light in Red Dead Redemption 2. Acting as the primary antagonists chasing the Van Der Linde gang, the agency is shown as a violent organization willing to employ extreme measures. Historically speaking, this is a fairly accurate depiction, but the company's modern incarnation which retains the Pinkerton name didn't take kindly to it - or the fact that it is possible to kill Pinkerton agents in-game.

Pinkerton_badge.png

We reported on the initial lawsuit back when it was filed, wherein Pinkerton sought to be paid royalties for the use of its name and historic logo in the game. It also sought damages over the alleged harm done to its reputation and public image due to the negative depiction.

The Pinkerton agency is a common element of Wild West fiction, be it literature, film or games, however the modern-day agency rarely files for royalties, if ever. This was used by Take-Two in their countersuit, and the publisher argued that the use of the Pinkerton name and logo in this historical context was fair use. Red Dead Redemption 2 strived for realism on many fronts, be it graphics, gameplay or historical accuracy.

Rockstar has used fictional stand-ins for existing companies, organizations or even cities in past games, most prominently in GTA, and even the settlements in Red Dead Redemption 2 are fictional - Saint Denis is a clear analog to New Orleans, for example. However, the Pinkerton agency wasn't altered in order to maintain realism, and due to their importance in the era the game depicts.

Edgar-Ross-800x450.jpg

Take-Two has confirmed that the two parties have settles outside of court, with both the Pinkerton suit and the respondent countersuit have both been dropped. The legal document which notifies the court of Take-Two's voluntary dismissal is available online in full, though the same document from the Pinkerton side isn't (yet).

A Take-Two spokesperson gave a statement to The Verge, which was the first to report on the settlement.

Take-Two can confirm that the present-day Pinkerton Consulting and Investigation company has withdrawn its claims against Red Dead Redemption 2, and Take-Two will not continue legal action against Pinkerton. Red Dead Redemption 2 is a work of fiction set in the late 1800s that references historical entities active during that time.

No information about the settlement itself has been made public, so it is unclear whether Take-Two ended up paying Pinkerton. We certainly hope they weren't required to!

The post Pinkerton Lawsuit Over Red Dead Redemption 2 Resolved appeared first on RDR2.org.

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