passive mode

[Kean_1]

7 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

 Defensive mode does nothing really.

I've murdered defensive mode players just as easy as offensive mode players.  Nothing really changes except the lock on and some pointless kill tax.

Sure.. it helps keep idiots away.  But the idiots where never a problem do deal with, beyond a few cheap shots..  The real killers, the REAL ones, will not be stopped by defensive mode at all.

 

.......and yet there are those of us who continue to have an opposite experience with these changes.

Sometimes features that "help keep idiots away" is all some of really need or were asking for. Trolls are going to trolls but claiming  the system "does nothing" simply based on the fact that a few might find ways to work around it is groundless IMO.

Using the defensive mode as intended rather than acting like it's a passive feature (which it's not) also helps mitigate griefing problems.

It's not perfect but it works IMO/IME.

[HuDawg]

1 hour ago, Kean_1 said:

.......and yet there are those of us who continue to have an opposite experience with these changes.

Its not about different experience.. Its about the reality of it.  If something can happen, it will happen..

 

Can someone shoot you in the head while in defensive mode?  The answer is yes..   Can a bunch of players posse up and spawn kill a player in a defensive mode?  Yes..

I always go top down.  Not bottom up.    I really don't care about bottom feeding trolls who only get cheap kills on players.  Its the actual skilled/experienced players who decide to be hostile that I will ONLY ever use as a comparison.   

That's why I always kind of laughed at people who complained about bottom feeder 'griefers'...  that if there was a griefing scale those griefers would be at  1 or 2.  I only look at 9 and 10's.   Because they are the real threats..  And ain't no defensive mode going to stop them. 

 

 

[Netnow66]

8 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Its not about different experience.. Its about the reality of it.  If something can happen, it will happen..

 

Can someone shoot you in the head while in defensive mode?  The answer is yes..   Can a bunch of players posse up and spawn kill a player in a defensive mode?  Yes..

I always go top down.  Not bottom up.    I really don't care about bottom feeding trolls who only get cheap kills on players.  Its the actual skilled/experienced players who decide to be hostile that I will ONLY ever use as a comparison.   

That's why I always kind of laughed at people who complained about bottom feeder 'griefers'...  that if there was a griefing scale those griefers would be at  1 or 2.  I only look at 9 and 10's.   Because they are the real threats..  And ain't no defensive mode going to stop them. 

 

 

You're absolutely right in my book and I have the Defensive mode griefer deaths to prove it--though I must admit, I have fewer griefer deaths now when I play in regular lobbies. So Defensive does work to a degree.

My opinion, of course, but Rockstar wants griefing to take place in game. It's pretty obvious when they introduce a new mode that will let you hunt in peace while playing but they won't do it in free roam (I haven't tried that new mode yet and probably won't).

When I want to play in free roam, especially fishing, I still seek out glitched solo/passive lobbies--and I'm usually sharing these lobbies with dupers.

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

I have had no issues with griefers if any level since the new system has been implemented and that is despite having never changed to “defensive.” The difference between the arguments is that one is based on what a player has witnessed happening to him, vs the second scenario which illustrates possible scenarios. Yes tomorrow that player may go online and be griefed for an hour by a level 200 player, but until it happens, that is only a hypothetical scenario for that player.

 

real life example: I COULD win the lottery. But the state I live in is not going to give me a dime of the money until I do. Therefore the scenario in which I have that money is not a reality for me.

 

however, I am sure it has happened to others as there is no fool proof method to eliminate it. Just like in real life, bad people find ways to do bad things regardless of laws or systems in place.

Edited May 29, 2019 by The Coca-Cola Kid

[Kean_1]

20 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Its not about different experience.. Its about the reality of it.  If something can happen, it will happen..

IMO, it's ALL about the experience and the fact is, there are those of us whose personal experience is not what you describe.  ......and just because something can happen doesn't mean it will happen more frequently or hasn't been mitigated by the new features either.  Again, it's this idea that the game is broken because of these changes or the implication that things like griefing have been made worse because if it that I don't agree with it.

For those who say they don't like the changes because of their own gameplay experiences I can understand.  .....not the blanket statements that it just doesn't work.  

 

Quote

Can someone shoot you in the head while in defensive mode?  The answer is yes..   Can a bunch of players posse up and spawn kill a player in a defensive mode?  Yes..

....and who said they couldn't?  Again, Defensive Mode can't be treated as a "passive" mode because it simply isn't.  I know certain people wish it did and play as if it will keep them out of trouble without doing some of the work themselves but they are only gonna get griefed if they continue to ignore potential threats.

You still need to exercise caution around those you don't know, choose hunting/fishing spots far away from your spawn points, use the app if you can, etc..  Your idea that since it can be done or that some still get griefed negates any benefit others claim to have experienced with it is where we completely disagree on this topic.

 

Quote

I always go top down.  Not bottom up.    I really don't care about bottom feeding trolls who only get cheap kills on players.  Its the actual skilled/experienced players who decide to be hostile that I will ONLY ever use as a comparison.   

That's why I always kind of laughed at people who complained about bottom feeder 'griefers'...  that if there was a griefing scale those griefers would be at  1 or 2.  I only look at 9 and 10's.   Because they are the real threats..  And ain't no defensive mode going to stop them. 

....and you're talking about your own level of tolerance.  Personally, I would rather not be bothered by those "bottom-feeders" as I find them annoying.   ....and the new features absolutely help with that based on those like me who have said so.  I have yet to meet any of the "real threats" in my sessions since the last update or even after the proximity changes for that matter.

I've said this before but I'm sorry your experience with the game has been so shoddy.  Yeah, I wish there were other lobbies for folks like you who would prefer free aim, enjoy random encounters with griefers / hostile players, etc.  ....but the fact is that R* has made Free Roam to be a one size fits all solution and I for one and quite content on the changes they have made so far.  In fact, now that they seem to have fixed my blue-screen issues, I'm finally able to spend more time in the game and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

[HuDawg]

7 minutes ago, Netnow66 said:

You're absolutely right in my book and I have the Defensive mode griefer deaths to prove it--though I must admit, I have fewer griefer deaths now when I play in regular lobbies. So Defensive does work to a degree.

Lack of distant blips and forced free aim on other players while using defensive mode is just thinning the weakest 'griefers' from the herd.

So that's why it seems like it works..

Auto aim + Always on blips meant anyone with one working eye ball and a few fingers could easily kill anyone.   The whole reason I want free aim lobbies., is to thin the herd even more.

Already lost count on how many noobs tried attacking me while im in defensive mode and they whiff shots.  They whiff so bad, that if I attack back I get punished for it, just because im in defensive mode.  Like its my fault they miss...

 

[HuDawg]

57 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

 

I've said this before but I'm sorry your experience with the game has been so shoddy.  Yeah, I wish there were other lobbies for folks like you who would prefer free aim, enjoy random encounters with griefers / hostile players, etc.  ....but the fact is that R* has made Free Roam to be a one size fits all solution and I for one and quite content on the changes they have made so far.  In fact, now that they seem to have fixed my blue-screen issues, I'm finally able to spend more time in the game and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Im sort of a realist. 

I don't really see the point of this offensive/defensive mode.   Like. what is the actual point?..  

If R* is so fixated on shoving everyone together. They should have.. 'Instead' of lobbies,  added  Auto aim/Friendly/Free aim modes.   Not lobbies.. but modes, like offensive and defensive mode.  

Auto Aim.  All players and npcs can be locked on to.. All players can lock on to you.

Toggle on Friendly..  No player damage can be deal or taken.

Free aim.  You can't auto aim players or npcs.  And players can't auto aim you either.

That^.. would make more sense..    Although separate lobbies are always the best.

Edited May 29, 2019 by HuDawg

[Kean_1]

5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Im sort of a realist. 

I don't really see the point of this offensive/defensive mode.   Like. what is the actual point?..  

What can I say that hasn't already been explained.  I know you don't get it probably because it doesn't offer anything you want.  ....but it does for others and some of us have explained that ad nauseum to be honest.

[Kean_1]

18 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Lack of distant blips and forced free aim on other players while using defensive mode is just thinning the weakest 'griefers' from the herd.

Again, it doesn't necessarily need to work on ALL of them for some of us.  We get that.  However, because it does work on those "low level" or "weakest" griefers (who I might argue comprise many of those folks we encounter in RDO) that's actually a good thing in my book.  

Netnow66's situation is a little unique because he has always wanted a Free Roam experience that is completely passive.  While I can appreciate that, it's not likely it will ever happen unless they introduce private sessions.  ....but even by his own admission the new changes have even helped him avoid some griefers.

[HuDawg]

8 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

What can I say that hasn't already been explained.  I know you don't get it probably because it doesn't offer anything you want.  ....but it does for others and some of us have explained that ad nauseum to be honest.

You may have explained.  R* explained.  I know exactly how it works.. 

It just doesn't make sense.   It has no actual point.  Its just sort of exists, for no reason.

 

[HuDawg]

 

17 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

Again, it doesn't necessarily need to work on ALL of them for some of us.  We get that.  However, because it does work on those "low level" or "weakest" griefers (who I might argue comprise many of those folks we encounter in RDO) that's actually a good thing in my book.  

 

Eventually, some of those low level nothings will hatch into a ugly full grown hardcore griefer.     

And all you people acting like this defensive mode thing is a 'good thing.   You'll want even more..changes..  

Eventually, RDO will need full on gun control laws.

[Netnow66]

1 minute ago, HuDawg said:

 

 

Eventually, some of those low level nothings will hatch into a ugly full grown hardcore griefer.     

And all you people acting like this defensive mode thing is a 'good thing.   You'll want even more..changes..  

Eventually, RDO will need full on gun control laws.

Low level nothings or ugly full grown griefers--I can't sort them out, I want them all out of my game.

And believe me, I already want more changes. A fun and fair environment I could play solo, as advertised, is what I'm looking for.

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

Ugh, this debate is going no where. So I think everyone should settle on the agree to disagree philosophy... however @HuDawg, I imagine the point of the system is to appease the (apparently large number of) folks that were calling on R* to do something about the perceived griefer issue. Now, R* can say they have done something to attempt to reduce the number of griefing incidents. However, like gun laws, you cannot eliminate the problem as people who want to do it will find a way. As a fellow realist, I think we can agree on that concept and accept the system for what it is and let it go. 

Haha everyone good?

Edited May 30, 2019 by The Coca-Cola Kid

[Netnow66]

11 hours ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

Ugh, this debate is going no where. So I think everyone should settle on the agree to disagree philosophy... however @HuDawg, I imagine the point of the system is to appease the (apparently large number of) folks that were calling on R* to do something about the perceived griefer issue. Now, R* can say they have done something to attempt to reduce the number of griefing incidents. However, like gun laws, you cannot eliminate the problem as people who want to do it will find a way. As a fellow realist, I think we can agree on that concept and accept the system for what it is and let it go. 

Haha everyone good?

I kind of agree that this debate isn't going anywhere--but I also realize it will not go away either, especially with a topic titled "passive mode."

This topic title invites the debate and whenever passive mode is mentioned, it will probably reoccur.

And it should, as far as I'm concerned.

Some players just don't feel bullying/harassment/griefing should be acceptable in a game advertised the way RDO was.

If you enter a topic titled "passive mode," you should expect this same debate, hopefully being discussed with civility. And I believe this conversation was civil.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Netnow66

[YodaMan 3D]

16 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Im sort of a realist. 

I don't really see the point of this offensive/defensive mode.   Like. what is the actual point?..  

If R* is so fixated on shoving everyone together. They should have.. 'Instead' of lobbies,  added  Auto aim/Friendly/Free aim modes.   Not lobbies.. but modes, like offensive and defensive mode.  

Auto Aim.  All players and npcs can be locked on to.. All players can lock on to you.

Toggle on Friendly..  No player damage can be deal or taken.

Free aim.  You can't auto aim players or npcs.  And players can't auto aim you either.

That^.. would make more sense..    Although separate lobbies are always the best.

Rockstar believes they can "fix" the "griefing" issue and keep the "one size fits all arena" and make everyone happy.  

You have stated it can't be done and I argued it can.  Rockstar is doing it their way.  Is it fixed?  Some are happy, others aren't.  Is it fixed though?  If the answer is Rockstar believes it is.  They take our critiques, our complaints, and our suggestions.  They treat is like clay and shape it into what they think is best or works in their minds.  They then release it as is, that is the point.  Offensive and Defensive option, they believe it works and that is the point.

[Kean_1]

RDO is evolving.  Even R* said that they haven't scrapped the separate lobby idea but they would really like to make the "Free Roam for all" work.  That is their vision but they have also been taking player feedback to heart in their development choices.  Obviously, some will never be happy with the state of the game which is completely understandable.  .....but some of the arguments I see that stem from that are not IMO.

While some were certain RDO would take a similar path as GTAO and were disappointed when it didn't, I think R* made it clear with their choices that RDO would be different in that regard.  It's quite clear now that R* intended this to be a "one for all" mode and not the "free for all" some folks hoped for.   .....and since they have confirmed what I grew to suspect (that there are no separate lobbies in their current plans), I'm quite content myself.

 

3 hours ago, Netnow66 said:

I kind of agree that this debate isn't going anywhere--but I also realize it will not go away either, especially with a topic titled "passive mode."

This topic title invites the debate and whenever passive mode is mentioned, it will probably reoccur.

And it should, as far as I'm concerned.

Some players just don't feel bullying/harassment/griefing should be acceptable in a game advertised the way RDO was.

If you enter a topic titled "passive mode," you should expect this same debate, hopefully being discussed with civility. And I believe this conversation was civil.

The whole reference of "passive" to describe the Defensive option is a misnomer.  It's not a passive mode as you can still be killed, griefed, etc. nor what it ever pitched as one.  It simply makes it more difficult for the aggressor to kill a Defensive player and provides the victim more options if they are.  ....and if used as a means to evade and escape potential threats, it works really well IMO/IME.  Just having it on seems to help in that regard IME.  You really need to play as if everyone else is out to kill you and that has never changed in this game even with this new Defensive mode.

A total, true passive option has yet to be realized and quite frankly, I think it's obvious that is not part of R*'s vision for Free Roam.  I believe they always wanted to include some level of risk for players but what they wanted to try and mitigate was the rampant griefing folks complained about.  Personally, I think they did just that and with a few tweaks / changes / additions, Free Roam may just work for most.

[Ragee503]

Defensive mode is not a shield in the point you can still be killed. That being said it is also an indicator for other players that tells them you are not interested in shooting them so in turn the normal players don't shoot you either.  It makes it so you don't have to shoot first and ask questions later which in my opinion creates more player interaction. 

I was always for separate lobbies like in gtao but I can live with the way it is set up now.  Yes I have been shot a few times in defensive mode but most of time players just go about there business.  It makes it nice to go to town and do your business and not be grieved as much.  It seems like players aren't always on edge.

[Kean_1]

7 minutes ago, Ragee503 said:

Defensive mode is not a shield in the point you can still be killed. That being said it is also an indicator for other players that tells them you are not interested in shooting them so in turn the normal players don't shoot you either.  It makes it so you don't have to shoot first and ask questions later which in my opinion creates more player interaction. 

I was always for separate lobbies like in gtao but I can live with the way it is set up now.  Yes I have been shot a few times in defensive mode but most of time players just go about there business.  It makes it nice to go to town and do your business and not be grieved as much.  It seems like players aren't always on edge.

It's funny, even those folks I thought were going to mess with us especially during missions when we were in Offensive mode never did.  

Although I'm sure it may happen at some point, I have yet to be trolled in Defensive mode myself but that could be due to my how my paranoia affects the way I react to randoms that are around me.  😁

[HuDawg]

16 hours ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

 As a fellow realist, I think we can agree on that concept and accept the system for what it is and let it go. 

 

Not letting anything go.    R* even stated if what they are doing doesn't work, then they will end up adding actual separate lobbies.

So the last thing anyone should do, is let it go.  Infact, they should be pressing R* even harder. 

1 hour ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Rockstar believes they can "fix" the "griefing" issue and keep the "one size fits all arena" and make everyone happy.  

You have stated it can't be done and I argued it can.  Rockstar is doing it their way.  Is it fixed?  Some are happy, others aren't.  Is it fixed though?  If the answer is Rockstar believes it is.  They take our critiques, our complaints, and our suggestions.  They treat is like clay and shape it into what they think is best or works in their minds.  They then release it as is, that is the point.  Offensive and Defensive option, they believe it works and that is the point.

Its impossible to have one size fits all in a game with auto aim, free aim mixed in.. while some players like hostile interactions and some don't

It can't be done.. It still hasn't been done.  Nothing is fixed.. And R* is wasting their time trying to force these convoluted ideas onto players like they are some sort of lab rats.  

 

They are trying to re-invent the wheel.  When the wheel already worked fine.

 

[The_Liquor]

No, the wheel doesn’t work fine... the main reason I don’t play most online games much. Including GTA (even though I love the story mode). However, I like where RDR2 seems to be going. Time will tell if it has staying power I suppose, but I for one am glad they are trying to reinvent the wheel and do something refreshingly different.

 

ok... so today I haw an encounter that initially pissed me off but made me realize people are just assholes and need to be forced into the vision rather than just presented with the platform and allowed to have fun. I was riding into Blackwater. One lone blue blip on the map that I initially ignored. Dead... well, I came at him a few times and he was pretty good. I say on the mic ‘you must spend a lot of time griefing people to be so good at this’. His reply ‘I’m so tired of people trying to kill me for no reason that I just shoot everyone in range now’. Well, we had a discussion and we both agreed that people are assholes and ruin online games. Seems a lot of people out there are looking for something different.

Edited May 30, 2019 by The_Liquor
Additional content

[HuDawg]

1 hour ago, The_Liquor said:

No, the wheel doesn’t work fine... the main reason I don’t play most online games much. Including GTA

Well I do,

And I've played the holy hell outta OG RDR online.. GTA 4 and and GTA O.

OG Red Dead had it perfect.   Hell all the previous R* online game where better, since players had actual options on how to play the game online. That's why this idiotic all size fits mumbo jumbo science experiment needs to end.

You may like being a on a leash.. This doggy don't.

 

[The_Liquor]

4 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Well I do,

And I've played the holy hell outta OG RDR online.. GTA 4 and and GTA O.

OG Red Dead had it perfect.   Hell all the previous R* online game where better, since players had actual options on how to play the game online. That's why this idiotic all size fits mumbo jumbo science experiment needs to end.

You may like being a on a leash.. This doggy don't.

 

I’m not a dog on a leash. I’m a consumer spending my money on a game I like. If you don’t like the direction they game is going and would rather just kill people aimlessly, go play Call of Duty (see, that griefer ‘go play...’ argument works both ways).

Personally I like how things are right now. I hope it keeps progressing this way. This game is so much more than an aimless free roam death match. If you can’t see that, then you are the ‘I kill the (nameless anPC)’  player I kept kicking out of my D&D groups. 

Sure, players can still kill you. Sure, your not invincible. Sure, people will shill be a$$holes. But we have some balance. Sorry it doesn’t meet your free aim kill every blip on the map play style, but as I said, go playbCoD

[Vaderspupil]

12 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

You may like being a on a leash.. This doggy don't.

 

Looks like you need to be taken to obedience school and taught how to heel! 

[HuDawg]

12 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

I’m not a dog on a leash. I’m a consumer spending my money on a game I like. If you don’t like the direction they game is going and would rather just kill people aimlessly, go play Call of Duty (see, that griefer ‘go play...’ argument works both ways).

Nothing is stopping me from killing people aimlessly.  Not that it matters.. 

If you actually played old red dead.  You would instantly see what im talking about.   This games current direction has no actual direction.

Also.. I don't play COD.    Not sure what COD has to do with anything.

 

11 minutes ago, Vaderspupil said:

Looks like you need to be taken to obedience school and taught how to heel! 

Id get kicked out after the 1st hour..  Unless the teacher was hot.  

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

Well for what it’s worth, I am content with the current state of the game (would definitely like to continue to see new missions,etc.). Having said that, R* attempted to fix the things I had issues with. However, I think that the including the option for various types of lobbies (private, free aim, etc.) would be a fair concession to appease the players such as @HuDawg and that would allow ALL players to play the game more closely  to the way they would like to.

[The_Liquor]

Look,no one (well, maybe one or two) is asking for a kill proof gaming experience. What The majority wants is balance and reason. If you are going to kill me, do it for some purpose. ‘Because... it’s the Wild West’ isn’t a proper motive. No, this new system doesn’t eliminate this.  But it drastically reduces the amount of times we all die for no particular reason. Like I said, if all you want to do is run around and kill people there are games for that. If you want at proper RPG with an-old west theme, than its worth sticking around for what is offered here.

[Ozy8753]

Never used defensive so can't really comment if it works or not I've been playing this game from the start & have never had problems with griefers as such had the usual A-HOLES camping at the butchers & the odd idiot shooting you in the back as you ride past them or looking in the catalogue but anyone who is having trouble just change servers or join a showdown the come straight back out instead of complaining their getting griefed.

[DNMNetTech]

1 minute ago, Ozy8753 said:

Never used defensive so can't really comment if it works or not I've been playing this game from the start & have never had problems with griefers as such had the usual A-HOLES camping at the butchers & the odd idiot shooting you in the back as you ride past them or looking in the catalogue but anyone who is having trouble just change servers or join a showdown the come straight back out instead of complaining their getting griefed.

You put it perfectly. I wanted to say something similar but IDK. Thought it was something that was already thought of by most.

[HuDawg]

23 minutes ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

Well for what it’s worth, I am content with the current state of the game (would definitely like to continue to see new missions,etc.). Having said that, R* attempted to fix the things I had issues with. However, I think that the including the option for various types of lobbies (private, free aim, etc.) would be a fair concession to appease the players such as @HuDawg and that would allow ALL players to play the game more closely  to the way they would like to.

  That's pretty much it man..

Im pretty content myself.  Its just R* doesn't not want to cross finish line...  Alls they have doo.. is the simple littlest thing.  

I mean, when myself and few friends play free aim.  Then we get attacked by auto aim users.. Now we gotta switch back to auto aim to battle against auto aim.  

We would love to play free aim pvp game modes.. But they don't exist.

 

Hell, when R* adds the editor.  How the hell am I supposed to make Movies in public games?.. I need private

 

[YodaMan 3D]

14 minutes ago, Ozy8753 said:

Never used defensive so can't really comment if it works or not I've been playing this game from the start & have never had problems with griefers as such had the usual A-HOLES camping at the butchers & the odd idiot shooting you in the back as you ride past them or looking in the catalogue but anyone who is having trouble just change servers or join a showdown the come straight back out instead of complaining their getting griefed.

Yes, players being griefed can quit,  change servers, sending nasty messages to the griefer.   Why does it always have to those options?  Why can't the big bad griefer, who is seeking crazy challenging hardcore PvP, why don't they go PvP with those who wish to PvP?  Why do they seek easy targets if they want PvP?  

If there is an issue, players should be allowed to vent, they shouldn't have to run away just because their momma didn't teach them to share and it shows.

Not saying that the PvE players shouldn't be a little thicker skinned then they are, but games like this seem to call out to certain types of players offering this perfect open world.  

Rockstar is trying to improve the game and live upto their promise to "fix griefing".  Not sure it's happening, but they are making it interesting.