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passive mode


Lukeknight
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1 minute ago, HuDawg said:

  That's pretty much it man..


Im pretty content myself.  Its just R* doesn't not want to cross finish line...  Alls they have doo.. is the simple littlest thing.  

I mean, when myself and few friends play free aim.  Then we get attacked by auto aim users.. Now we gotta switch back to auto aim to battle against auto aim.  

We would love to play free aim pvp game modes.. But they don't exist.

 

Hell, when R* adds the editor.  How the hell am I supposed to make Movies in public games?.. I need private

 

Look, I realize I his isn’t the game you want... and on a side note, I have played RDR1 and thought the online was crap. I had hopes for GTA5 online, but that went down the tube before PS4 was released... I see RDR2 turning into the game I finally want to play (it’s made a good early start). But it has a little ways to go. Sorry it’s not just another of the same old 24/7 death match, but if it was I wouldn’t even be here now. If that is what you like, there are other games to play. Me, I don’t want that and I’m hoping RDR2 stays away from that path.

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4 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Yes, players being griefed can quit,  change servers, sending nasty messages to the griefer.   Why does it always have to those options?  Why can't the big bad griefer, who is seeking crazy challenging hardcore PvP, why don't they go PvP with those who wish to PvP?  Why do they seek easy targets if they want PvP?  

The pvp games modes aren't fun.  Especially with lack of actual lobbies and pvp game modes.  

  And free roam pvp is much more personal.  Theres more 1 vs 1.  More freedom.

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4 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

Look, I realize I his isn’t the game you want... and on a side note, I have played RDR1 and thought the online was crap. 

You live in bizzaro world.  Just sayin'.

So Normal, Friendly, Private and Hardcore lobbies are crappier than Offensive/Defensive mode?

Edited by HuDawg
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4 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

RDO is evolving.  Even R* said that they haven't scrapped the separate lobby idea but they would really like to make the "Free Roam for all" work.  That is their vision but they have also been taking player feedback to heart in their development choices.  Obviously, some will never be happy with the state of the game which is completely understandable.  .....but some of the arguments I see that stem from that are not IMO.

While some were certain RDO would take a similar path as GTAO and were disappointed when it didn't, I think R* made it clear with their choices that RDO would be different in that regard.  It's quite clear now that R* intended this to be a "one for all" mode and not the "free for all" some folks hoped for.   .....and since they have confirmed what I grew to suspect (that there are no separate lobbies in their current plans), I'm quite content myself.

 

The whole reference of "passive" to describe the Defensive option is a misnomer.  It's not a passive mode as you can still be killed, griefed, etc. nor what it ever pitched as one.  It simply makes it more difficult for the aggressor to kill a Defensive player and provides the victim more options if they are.  ....and if used as a means to evade and escape potential threats, it works really well IMO/IME.  Just having it on seems to help in that regard IME.  You really need to play as if everyone else is out to kill you and that has never changed in this game even with this new Defensive mode.

A total, true passive option has yet to be realized and quite frankly, I think it's obvious that is not part of R*'s vision for Free Roam.  I believe they always wanted to include some level of risk for players but what they wanted to try and mitigate was the rampant griefing folks complained about.  Personally, I think they did just that and with a few tweaks / changes / additions, Free Roam may just work for most.

I'm not sure, but the way I read the OP, he wasn't describing Defensive mode.

He was describing a passive glitch mode that Rockstar had patched. His quote is "I enjoyed a few hours of no hassle hunting in tumbleweed with out a hole griefers attacking me in packs. Now it seems this way of entering passive mode has been patched much to the annoyance of many players." That definitely is not a description of Defensive mode but of a glitched server. I'm not sure if he's aware or not, but there are numerous other ways to accomplish what he is looking for, none of which seem to be sanctioned by Rockstar.

I take that back, Rockstar says in their new hunting mode you can't be griefed. Interesting that they choose to do it only in that new hunting mode--for now.

After  Defensive dropped, it was obvious it wasn't a passive mode--what wasn't totally clear was what Rockstar hoped to accomplish with such a weak attempt to prevent griefing. Again, I acknowledge that I get griefed less with Defensive mode (was that Rockstar's intent, less griefing as opposed to none?) but not enough to keep me from playing in glitched solo/passive lobbies most times.

 

YodaMan 3D said:

"Yes, players being griefed can quit,  change servers, sending nasty messages to the griefer.   Why does it always have to those options?  "

And that is the question. Even players that seem to be sympathetic to PvE players offer those as solutions. They're not solutions to me. That's not how you deal with bullies.

Edited by Netnow66
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1 hour ago, Netnow66 said:

I'm not sure, but the way I read the OP, he wasn't describing Defensive mode.

He was describing a passive glitch mode that Rockstar had patched. His quote is "I enjoyed a few hours of no hassle hunting in tumbleweed with out a hole griefers attacking me in packs. Now it seems this way of entering passive mode has been patched much to the annoyance of many players." That definitely is not a description of Defensive mode but of a glitched server. I'm not sure if he's aware or not, but there are numerous other ways to accomplish what he is looking for, none of which seem to be sanctioned by Rockstar.

Whether the OP was talking about a glitch he exploited to simulate a passive state or whatever, he was also hoping they would implement one.  ....but that's a moot point.  This thread was created about two months prior to the new mode being implemented.  

The thread was resurrected as the new defensive / offensive mode was introduced and a new discussion was started.  My comments about the the passive references are to those referring to the Defensive mode as "passive" which some have done and still do.  ....in the context of the new discussion, not the OP's original one.

 

Quote

After  Defensive dropped, it was obvious it wasn't a passive mode--what wasn't totally clear was what Rockstar hoped to accomplish with such a weak attempt to prevent griefing. Again, I acknowledge that I get griefed less with Defensive mode (was that Rockstar's intent, less griefing as opposed to none?) but not enough to keep me from playing in glitched solo/passive lobbies most times.

It was never touted as a passive mode when it was announced.  .....without getting into the same discussion about what they said in their marketing regarding supporting various playstyles. 

Personally, I think it works quite well and I'm sure they're not done tweaking it.  There are also some additions coming in this Summer that may change how people's roles / gaming experience is defined.  IO, it wasn't a weak attempt but I know that some folks won't be happy until they can have options that give them exactly what they want.  

Regardless of how you feel about the direction they took, the fact is that PvP is a part of Free Roam just as much as PvE and that's not going to change anytime soon from the looks of it..  .....but we've all said all this before looking through the history of this thread. 

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2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

You live in bizzaro world.  Just sayin'.

So Normal, Friendly, Private and Hardcore lobbies are crappier than Offensive/Defensive mode?

I didn’t like RDR1 because it had no purpose... you couldn’t even make your own character... but this time around the game has potential to be more than a pick your style of aiming kill everything game:

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11 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

I didn’t like RDR1 because it had no purpose... you couldn’t even make your own character... but this time around the game has potential to be more than a pick your style of aiming kill everything game:

…...Not talking about picking your own character.   Im talking about more options to choose how to play the game.

Someone like Net could play friendly free roam (where you can't shoot other players and they can't shoot you) or play private/nivite only.

Even co-op missions..  While current RD O has better co-op missions.  In old RD, you can choose to play in auto aim or play with free aim players only.  You can play any co-op mission you want, anytime you want, with who ever you want. Be it public or private..  And you got paid a flat rate not time based.

And really.. In current RD O, you can pick your aim style and still kill everything in the game.  Infact, the bulk of the game centers around killing things.

10 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

I should also add, I don’t like GTAOnline despite having all the private servers and whatever else... it’s just not done right. Here is hoping RDR2 gets the perfect combination of everything 

Its one thing to not like GTA O.  GTA O has its own share of issues.   But separate lobbies and more playing options are far better then defensive/offensive mode.  Infact you're the only person I've seen that claims the opposite.

Edited by HuDawg
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Look, at the end of the day I’m not sure it matters too much if there are separate lobbies or not. But from what I’ve been seeing, the defensive/aggressive play modes are having The intended results. So far, the only people complaining all that much about it seem to be the small fraction of players that want to be completely death-proof. Maybe another small fraction that feel like they should be able to see everyone on the map and make free roam into a big death match with the ability to kill indiscriminately with no consequences.

I’m not seeing all the doom and gloom you have been predicting since the initial hostility system. I haven’t seen a single player trying to abuse the defensive mode for griefing purposes. I’m not getting unnecessarily punished by a so called ‘kill tax’ for defending myself. I’m running into way fewer aggressive players. People are interacting more and defaulting to ‘shoot all other players on sight’ less. It seems to me that it’s turning out just fine and as intended. I suppose other experiences may differ, but I’m not hearing about it all that much aside from an isolated incident here or there.

So yeah. I guess I’m living in bizzaro world. I just don’t see how it’s so urgent to split up the player base at this time. Maybe it’ll prove to be the prudent move down the road. But I like how they’re trying to make something new and different rather than churning out the same old game with a different map. For the first time in a while I’m actually enjoying an online game and I for one am willing to see how it turns out before condemning it.

Feel free to disagree.

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The free-aim lobby people are the only ones I can see that still have a valid complaint. I am happy with the passive/aggressive mode the way it is working at the moment. Will have to see what abuses players can come up with, so far I have not see any creative players doing so.

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1 hour ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

Ultimately I don’t really care which way they go, but my question is why does it seem like everyone wants it one way or the other?

Everyone? There are those of us who like it just fine so far. I'm content with R*s direction but some are not which is expected.  Its that way with any game.

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3 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Someone like Net could play friendly free roam (where you can't shoot other players and they can't shoot you) or play private/nivite only.

Apparently what some of us expected when we first read about RDO is easily accomplished--


"Wild Animal Kills Challenge. Accept an invite to this new Free Roam Event to pit yourself against other sportsmen with weapons and offensive attacks against other players disabled – so the focus of this Free Roam Event is squarely on the hunt."

Rockstar is just being a p*nis about it.

I don't necessarily like playing on glitched solo/passive servers, mainly because I feel Rockstar has a right to do with me as they want if they catch me--but I won't stop doing it until I can play without being griefed by any bully that can afford to purchase the game.
 

 

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6 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

Look, at the end of the day I’m not sure it matters too much if there are separate lobbies or not.

Actually it does.  No free aim lobbies.. No private lobbies. Is the biggest problem with this game.

Free aim players are forced to play in sh*t hole auto aim lobbies.  They have 'NO CHOICE".  Other players who want invite only lobby, for what ever reasons they choose, also have no choice.  And this is both from free roam, to pvp, to co-op missions.   

6 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

But from what I’ve been seeing, the defensive/aggressive play modes are having The intended results. 

Lol?    Intended result as in.  Convoluted and makes no sense.?    if that's the case then yes, that is the intended result.

Hell I can do the wrong emote toward a friend, and an NPCs gets angry and im instantly out of Defensive mode.  W

6 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

 I just don’t see how it’s so urgent to split up the player base at this time. 

…*facepalm

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You know  @HuDawg... I think it’s just the fact we want separate games. I want an immersive western themed RPG like experience. I’m suspecting you want a western 3rd person shooter with a few side activities. Don't get me wrong, I won’t be all that upset if separated lobbies become a thing, though I do think it might have the unintended side effect of watering down the regular lobbies to those that can’t be bothered to waste their time mastering the ridiculous skill of moving a near invisible white dot onto a target at lightning speed with joysticks, and those that want to take cheap shots and prey on people. If this happens, it’s game over for me.

As for the intended effect of defensive mode, it is designed to limit the amount of cheap shots you get when you want to just go about your business without completely eliminating the danger present in the open world. From what I observed, it does this fairly well. Even when not in defensive mode I’ve noticed a drastic reduction in getting killed for no particular reason... I fail to see how it doesn’t make sense. 

But like I said, you want your game and I want my game. They just happen to be different games. Only my game requires Rockstar to try to reinvent the wheel, whereas your game already exists.  

Sorry to disagree with you. I’m not saying your point of view isn’t valid. But I truly am hoping Rockstar keeps trying to break the mold instead of turning RDR2 into GTA old west...

Edited by The_Liquor
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23 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

You know  @HuDawg... I think it’s just the fact we want separate games. I want an immersive western themed RPG like experience. I’m suspecting you want a western 3rd person shooter with a few side activities. Don't get me wrong, I won’t be all that upset if separated lobbies become a thing, though I do think it might have the unintended side effect of watering down the regular lobbies to those that can’t be bothered to waste their time mastering the ridiculous skill of moving a near invisible white dot onto a target at lightning speed with joysticks, and those that want to take cheap shots and prey on people. If this happens, it’s game over for me.

Red Dead is not a RPG and never was.  Its and open world action/adventure game with a Wild West theme.  And its main game mechanic is riding horses and shooting guns.  Its a 3rd person shooter/1st person shooter depending on how you play it.

I really don't care if people can't be bothered to shoot for themselves.  I just should not be forced to play with them..    Its not fair, and at the same time makes content boring because the bulk of the content revolves around shooting.

The biggest misconception about free aim is that you have to master it.. When the reality is, you just have to master it to be good at it.  Not everyones good with free aim. its ok to miss.  The missing of shots is what makes the shooting more intense.  Because you can't just spam lock on at everything.  Sometimes you have to run, sometimes you stop and pick shots.  

Some of my friends that I play free aim with suck at free aim..  but always enjoy it.  

 

 

Edited by HuDawg
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22 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

. But I truly am hoping Rockstar keeps trying to break the mold instead of turning RDR2 into GTA old west...

Red Dead is GTA old wild west..   That's the entire appeal of the game.

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5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Red Dead is GTA old wild west..   That's the entire appeal of the game.

Mechanically very similar maybe.... but it’s a different beast. Kind of like calling star wars D20 D&D in space. 

 

You know, the more I think about it... separate lobbies just might be the way to allow us to each play the game we want without butting heads. Though I’m still half convinced it would have the watering down the lobbies effect:

Edited by The_Liquor
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Here's a video of a level 30 riding around, blasting Defensive mode players.. While also using defensive mode to sneak up on players, before killing them.  Basically a video proving what im saying about how stupid Offensive/Defensive mode is.

Feel free to watch.   Probably good for some of you guys to see what players, even basic low levels can do to you.. While you're in defensive mode.


Defensive mode does nothing really..  Except sticks you in perm free aim till you shoot.   For players who like free aim and stalking/killing players.  This is more useful to them then it is to a player using defensive mode as intended.

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Yeah. I’m familiar with this guy. His whole channel is filled with videos of him being an ass just to see how big of an ass he can be. There isn’t a system in the world that will stop a guy like this, including hardcore/freeaim lobbies. He’s not interested in fighting people, he just wants to go around griefing people that have no interest in fighting. Using him as the poster boy for why we need a hardcore lobby for people that want to fight is pretty useless. If it happens, he’ll still be in the regular lobbies acting like A jackass.

However, I imagine defensive mode being tweaked down the road to combat this behaviour. At the end of the day, I’m personally not against player on player violence and bloodshed. I just wish it made some kind of sense. Had a purpose of some kind behind it. And maybe a penalty/reward system that would cause people to actually think a little before pulling the trigger. 

Edited by The_Liquor
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1 hour ago, The_Liquor said:

Using him as the poster boy for why we need a hardcore lobby for people that want to fight is pretty useless. If it happens, he’ll still be in the regular lobbies acting like A jackass.

I wasn't using him for a poster boy for hardcore lobbies.  Just showing how pointless defensive mode is.

 

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Yeah, I can appreciate that. But other than a few, I don’t think people really want an invincible mode. I see defensive mode as less a protection method and more of a flag saying ‘look, I’m busy. Please leave me alone’. It keeps the semi honest PvP enthusiasts away from you. And it has a little bit of built in protection from low level experimenters. But, much like a padlock isn’t going to stop a dedicated thieving  prick from taking your stuff, defensive mode won’t stop a dedicated ass of a griefer from killing you while he makes videos of himself giggling like a prepubescent girl...

Edited by The_Liquor
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4 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

But, much like a padlock isn’t going to stop a dedicated thriving prick from taking your stuff, defensive mode won’t stop a dedicated ass of a griefer from killing you while he makes videos of himself giggling like a prepubescent girl...

....good analogy.

With theft deterrent devices you know that any one solution is not likely to be foolproof but the point is to make yourself less of an easy mark so criminals move on to more vulnerable prey.  Theft deterrents also require a level of action on the part of the user in order to more effective.   .....much like the anti-griefing features in the game.  

Defensive Mode is simply a deterrent to help mitigate the issue of griefing, not a way to stop it.  .....but like the example above, a big part of making yourself less of a target really depends on how you use that feature to your advantage (not the attacker).  

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1 hour ago, The_Liquor said:

Yeah, I can appreciate that. But other than a few, I don’t think people really want an invincible mode. I see defensive mode as less a protection method and more of a flag saying ‘look, I’m busy. Please leave me alone’. It keeps the semi honest PvP enthusiasts away from you. And it has a little bit of built in protection from low level experimenters. But, much like a padlock isn’t going to stop a dedicated thieving  prick from taking your stuff, defensive mode won’t stop a dedicated ass of a griefer from killing you while he makes videos of himself giggling like a prepubescent girl...

Your lock analogy works for me but only to a point. There are good padlocks, there are better ones and then there's the best.

Defensive mode would only be classified as good by me (if that advanced). Rockstar has gone on record as saying that Defensive mode is working as intended. That new hunting mode "with weapons and offensive attacks against other players disabled" sounds like more of what I want RDO to be.

At the end of the day, Rockstar wants people to be griefed. Period.

Oh, and I'm one of the "other than a few" who want an invincible mode as long as griefers are online in this game. (Please note that I put "few" in quotes because I really feel you're wrong about "But other than a few"--but neither of us have data to back it up, so...).

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27 minutes ago, Netnow66 said:

Your lock analogy works for me but only to a point. There are good padlocks, there are better ones and then there's the best.

Defensive mode would only be classified as good by me (if that advanced). Rockstar has gone on record as saying that Defensive mode is working as intended. That new hunting mode "with weapons and offensive attacks against other players disabled" sounds like more of what I want RDO to be.

At the end of the day, Rockstar wants people to be griefed. Period.

Oh, and I'm one of the "other than a few" who want an invincible mode as long as griefers are online in this game. (Please note that I put "few" in quotes because I really feel you're wrong about "But other than a few"--but neither of us have data to back it up, so...).

Yeah, you were one of the individuals I meant when I made that generalization in my post lol. But I do think you are in the minority as well as those that just want to turn free roam into a death match. The majority are somewhere in the middle of these extremes. I mean, the game would loose a lot if I could do whatever I wanted without risk. But at the same time, people aimlessly killing every other player ‘because it’s the wild west’... make it unplayable. I think what we need is a system that makes Player on player violence have some kind of purpose, direction and predictably.

Edited by The_Liquor
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I played an MMO years ago where they had pvp allowed everywhere, but attacking someone only took off one health point (almost nothing) until they attacked back, and then it was true pvp. it was a kind of auto-opt-in.. if you didn't want to engage in pvp, you ignored the attacker. They could stand there chipping away at your health one point per hit but it would take so long you could just go about your business, join a raid or whatever. If you moved to engage them though, their attacks became real and did damage. 

Maybe this kind of idea would work for RDO? 

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13 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

Yeah, you were one of the individuals I meant when I made that generalization in my post lol. But I do think you are in the minority as well as those that just want to turn free roam into a death match. The majority are somewhere in the middle of these extremes. I mean, the game would loose a lot if I could do whatever I wanted without risk. But at the same time, people aimlessly killing every other player ‘because it’s the wild west’... make it unplayable. I think what we need is a system that makes Player on player violence have some kind of purpose, direction and predictably.

Again, without real numbers, we're both just swingin' in the wind. While I'll admit I do believe me and mine are in the minority, I think it's more than just a few. I visit a few boards and there are others still complaining about griefers. I'm not really social yet of the five people I've had some dealings with in game, three of them left because of griefing and two are duping to make money--I never see them playing, just duping (and I don't judge them because they send me invites to their special lobbies [which I just use to solo, nothing else]).

 

1 hour ago, N7Creed said:

I played an MMO years ago where they had pvp allowed everywhere, but attacking someone only took off one health point (almost nothing) until they attacked back, and then it was true pvp. it was a kind of auto-opt-in.. if you didn't want to engage in pvp, you ignored the attacker. They could stand there chipping away at your health one point per hit but it would take so long you could just go about your business, join a raid or whatever. If you moved to engage them though, their attacks became real and did damage. 

Maybe this kind of idea would work for RDO? 

I actually thought Defensive was going to be similar to that--then I logged in the morning it dropped and was shotgunned in the back.  That system would definitely make more sense to me than the mess that I find it now. 

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I definitely agree the protection should be upped for defensive mode. The way it was advertised made it sound like you would survive an initial shot... but I think they just meant ‘critical’ hits, such as a head shot, not massive damage as from a close range shotgun blast or an explosion.

But I stand by my belief that we need some conflict in this game, I just want it all to make sense. Reasons, motives, systems to keep it from getting out of hand... I’ve said it all before.

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If the gold reward for killing a griefer is true, I think that will be a step forwards. Has anyone been able to confirm this? 

 

I'm kind of amused by the idea of the griefers now being the hunted ones... After having been snipped while fishing, twice. This guy stood up on a distant bridge and sniped me twice. I'll ignore the first one, but twice is purposeful griefing. As it happens I needed to move from a river to the lake anyway so I just changed lobbies. But I don't want to be forced to do so. Maybe next time I'll pack up my rod and go griefer hunting instead. 

Edited by N7Creed
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