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AnnieGetURGuns
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Yes, I really do see it from both sides of the fence myself. On the one hand, it’s really annoying to be shot when your minding your own business (fishing, hunting, whatever you happen to be doing). On the other hand, it’s really annoying to give someone the benefit of the doubt only the be shot dead when your guard is down and have to fight to reclaim your wagon... Since it’s easier to keep your wagon in the first place than to try and chase it down and reclaim it un damaged... 

And no, there is no moral high ground to the shoot first apologize later route. But then again, there’s no real reason to be all that upset over the 10 seconds it takes to respawn unless you really want to dish out some revenge. It’s not like you can’t just shrug and go on with your life. Maybe they made the choice to shoot first, but you make the choice of wether or not to make it into a big deal.

 

PS: as for the ‘self imposed timer’ thing... you do realize deliveries are literally on a timer, right?

Edited by The_Liquor
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13 minutes ago, SimonTemplar said:

 

None of that makes you the good guy.  You do have time to check, you just choose not to bother because it is easier to shoot someone.  If you're running several deliveries a night then you're rich, so there simply isn't that level of urgency.  You are simply choosing to play in that slightly unpleasant way.  Which is fine, that's your choice, but call it what it is.  You accuse me of holding an 'unreasonable' position, yet all I am doing is fishing, not on crossing points, minding my own business.  You're the one choosing to shoot me on the way through.  Your compass has been recalibrated as only an online gaming compass can be.

Thinking that 'sorry pal, nothing personal' cuts it when you are the aggressor, while dressing it up as defence, necessary, and all you can do within the (self-imposed, arbitrary) time constraints is just hot air aimed at masking the simplicity of it:  you can't be bothered caring about others' enjoyment, you just want to take the most direct route to your own pleasure that is available, and will shoot anyone who has the temerity not get out of your way.  Which, again, is a valid (if unpleasant) viewpoint, but let's call it what it is.  You don't hold some moral high ground, some defensible imperative which make this shooting of random fishers your only, regrettable option.  You are the woes of early 21st Century society in one distant goods run.  And a walking reminder of why I tend to leave discussion fora for anything other than work, eventually, as the insights are depressing. 

I think I will leave this thread here.

This.

To which I would add, if you're running a multi person crew to deliver the wagon, how much of a threat is one solitary guy anyway?

Say he headshots the wagon driver.  Fine, kill him, someone else get on the wagon.

How many times have you seen a lone fisherman suddenly drop their rod, pull out a bow with a dynamite arrow and actually wreck your delivery?

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1 hour ago, Harlock1796 said:

This.

To which I would add, if you're running a multi person crew to deliver the wagon, how much of a threat is one solitary guy anyway?

Say he headshots the wagon driver.  Fine, kill him, someone else get on the wagon.

How many times have you seen a lone fisherman suddenly drop their rod, pull out a bow with a dynamite arrow and actually wreck your delivery?

A precision wagon stealing posse shoots the driver, because they want the wagon intact, as they are playing the game as the rival trader role. 

  The average lone "minding their own business guy" shoots an incendiary round at the horse or wagon just to be a jerk. Instant $225 loss to the owner, and that's IF  owner is actually able to hump all 4 bags in separately. 

A traders action can cost someone a respawn, a 10 second run back to their spot and $0.  Attackers have nothing to lose.

A traders inaction can cost themselves everything they've been working on and $625. Traders have everything to lose. 

Edited by Freakshow9191
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22 minutes ago, Harlock1796 said:

This.

To which I would add, if you're running a multi person crew to deliver the wagon, how much of a threat is one solitary guy anyway?

Say he headshots the wagon driver.  Fine, kill him, someone else get on the wagon.

How many times have you seen a lone fisherman suddenly drop their rod, pull out a bow with a dynamite arrow and actually wreck your delivery?

Well, to answer your first question, I personally run solo Most of the time , so I wouldn’t know. I do my best to avoid others when possible.
 

To answer your second question, I seen it once... now everybody I absolutely must pass gets shot....

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4 hours ago, SimonTemplar said:

 

None of that makes you the good guy.  You do have time to check, you just choose not to bother because it is easier to shoot someone.  If you're running several deliveries a night then you're rich, so there simply isn't that level of urgency.  You are simply choosing to play in that slightly unpleasant way.  Which is fine, that's your choice, but call it what it is.  You accuse me of holding an 'unreasonable' position, yet all I am doing is fishing, not on crossing points, minding my own business.  You're the one choosing to shoot me on the way through.  Your compass has been recalibrated as only an online gaming compass can be.

Thinking that 'sorry pal, nothing personal' cuts it when you are the aggressor, while dressing it up as defence, necessary, and all you can do within the (self-imposed, arbitrary) time constraints is just hot air aimed at masking the simplicity of it:  you can't be bothered caring about others' enjoyment, you just want to take the most direct route to your own pleasure that is available, and will shoot anyone who has the temerity not get out of your way.  Which, again, is a valid (if unpleasant) viewpoint, but let's call it what it is.  You don't hold some moral high ground, some defensible imperative which make this shooting of random fishers your only, regrettable option.  You are the woes of early 21st Century society in one distant goods run.  And a walking reminder of why I tend to leave discussion fora for anything other than work, eventually, as the insights are depressing. 

I think I will leave this thread here.

1. I was saying it was unreasonable to expect a posse to sit and ponder your intentions. You know you're a good guy, I know Simon's a good guy, but to a passing trader, they don't know that. 

2. Sorry to upset you so much.  With all my hot air , my arbitrary rules and  unpleasantness and my uncaring enjoyment robbing viewpoints, while being the personification of all of the 21st centuries ills. 

I've only tried unsuccessfully to offer some insight on traders decisions and highlight why they do it so everyone doesn't get their feelings so hurt by a respawn. It truly is nothing personal.  And the trader would be perfectly happy if they never saw your blip again. I know respawning is  horrible and I feel your pain. 

My apologies Simon.  I was enjoying the back and forth.  

Edited by Freakshow9191
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1 hour ago, Freakshow9191 said:

If you select a weapon you don't get the fishing rod breakdown animation. 

Why have I never tried this? Fair enough then, as you were.

I totally understand where you're coming from - more often than not my problems in the game (not had all that many) have come from playing defensively, waiting for the other player to act dishonourably. 

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17 minutes ago, CosmoKramer said:

Why have I never tried this? Fair enough then, as you were.

I totally understand where you're coming from - more often than not my problems in the game (not had all that many) have come from playing defensively, waiting for the other player to act dishonourably. 

Yeah, honestly it’s not a big enough deal to worry about... I spent a day trying to find a trader wagon to jack once... I didn’t have much luck. I also make the long deliveries solo, hoping to run into some trouble to bring a little excitement to the monotony. I got blown up once as mentioned. I’ve only ever had to pass another player once, preemptively shot him and never saw him again. I got shot by a passing wagon party once a while ago. Once I realized what was going on, I just went on with my day... I rarely find true trouble in this game. I don’t go picking fights without a reason, but I’m not shy about getting into a tussle when the situation warrants it. And I don’t tend to get all that upset if I’m just in the wrong place at the wrong time and eat a little digital lead.

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7 hours ago, SimonTemplar said:

Anyway, we don't agree but I was surprised to hear your line on that one.

Aim a gun, don't shoot, relax once you're past.  A pointed gun is used to exercise control in Westerns (and in life), it can be a game thing too!  Nicer than random executions which exacerbate the problem, or even create one where there was none.

Not sure why.  I'm not advocating people go around and randomly shoot others just because.  I simply don't see this action being the same as griefing but I do see how some might be more aggressive about it than some would like.  

I'm also not saying I would kill someone else in the game just because they are fishing nearby, traveling the same road, etc.  A lot depends on several different factors one of which is just how much of a threat I perceive someone to be based on the particular location / terrain, their actions / inaction, my posse strength, my personal experience with being jumped, etc.  If it's just me and/or another buddy, I may not be willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt that is near the road we are traveling on as i would with a full posse.  

I'm also not one to actively go out and hunt down anyone within the range of the minimap either.  Even someone traveling the same road I wouldn't consider attacking if we can see they are changing course to avoid us.  .....but someone just sitting there next to the road, we have no idea what their intentions are until we're upon them.  Personally, I don't fish anywhere near roads that close but I guess you never know.  One reason is because if I hear a horse or footsteps, I know someone has gone out of their way to reach my location so I need to pack it up and figure out what's going on.  

In all other cases I'm a live and let live kinda guy.   .....on missions though, it all depends as I don't see things so cut and dry in my ROE.

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On 11/20/2019 at 9:21 AM, SimonTemplar said:

If they're holding a fishing rod and the wet end is in the water, I'm going to give them a pass.  If they're standing there lurking for no obvious reason, then they might be dying of lead poisoning.

Funny this exact thing happened to me a few times back in the day, not in a long long time, but people used to walk right up to me while I was fishing at night and just head shot me from 5 feet away then ride off, lol, it is frustrating, but it doesnt seem to happen anymore.
I disagree with anyone suggesting you have to act a certain way to avoid jerks for the lack of a better term in game.

I get the outlaw stuff and all that but some of it was just lame, and noone should be forced to behave a certain way or else in any game.
In time as you rank up you can insulate yourself from these type of players to some extent and not have to worry about treating every other player like a serial killer and staying very clear, you should be able to play it anyway you want if you arent bothering anyone and not worry about being murdered simply for existing.

Sadly right or wrong, it kind of is that way, but as I started to say, if you rank up, rank up your cards, load up on powerful ammo types, etc.. you can give yourself  a good chance to survive these encounters so if this does happen you have a very good chance to escape or dish it out to whoever it was that thought it would be fun to interrupt your game time with their nonsense without having to curb your plans.


 if you just rode a long way to collect an item you need to complete a set and you get there to find a player or group of players doing whatever they want, you should not have to leave the area in fear that these players migth decide to take target practice out on you, but if they do, and you are prepared for it, meh, its currently pretty  manageable.

Keans advice is sound advice to be sure to minimize these things, especially if you are vulnerable because of your rank or loadout, I just take issue with this approach personally, despite how difficult it is to mitigate no player should have to have their time interrupted because other players just decide to hassle you, in a game with several ways to pvp, there just is no excuse, I think we make way to many concessions for players doing this. I have never killed another player or even shot at another player who didnt shoot at me first, and Ive played nearly every day for 8 months, so I just think others could show a little respect for others time and use the rule, if you dont me, dont shoot at me, unless I am shooting at you.

But as we all know that just isnt how it is , but it does seem to be a LOT better than it was.

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20 minutes ago, lumper said:

Funny this exact thing happened to me a few times back in the day, not in a long long time, but people used to walk right up to me while I was fishing at night and just head shot me from 5 feet away then ride off, lol, it is frustrating, but it doesnt seem to happen anymore.
I disagree with anyone suggesting you have to act a certain way to avoid jerks for the lack of a better term in game.

I get the outlaw stuff and all that but some of it was just lame, and noone should be forced to behave a certain way or else in any game.
In time as you rank up you can insulate yourself from these type of players to some extent and not have to worry about treating every other player like a serial killer and staying very clear, you should be able to play it anyway you want if you arent bothering anyone and not worry about being murdered simply for existing.

Sadly right or wrong, it kind of is that way, but as I started to say, if you rank up, rank up your cards, load up on powerful ammo types, etc.. you can give yourself  a good chance to survive these encounters so if this does happen you have a very good chance to escape or dish it out to whoever it was that thought it would be fun to interrupt your game time with their nonsense without having to curb your plans.


 if you just rode a long way to collect an item you need to complete a set and you get there to find a player or group of players doing whatever they want, you should not have to leave the area in fear that these players migth decide to take target practice out on you, but if they do, and you are prepared for it, meh, its currently pretty  manageable.

Keans advice is sound advice to be sure to minimize these things, especially if you are vulnerable because of your rank or loadout, I just take issue with this approach personally, despite how difficult it is to mitigate no player should have to have their time interrupted because other players just decide to hassle you, in a game with several ways to pvp, there just is no excuse, I think we make way to many concessions for players doing this. I have never killed another player or even shot at another player who didnt shoot at me first, and Ive played nearly every day for 8 months, so I just think others could show a little respect for others time and use the rule, if you dont me, dont shoot at me, unless I am shooting at you.

But as we all know that just isnt how it is , but it does seem to be a LOT better than it was.

Well, if this was the way things were, people doing wagon deliveries wouldn’t have to interrupt your fishing... unfortunately, it’s like the Wild West out there...

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9 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

Well, if this was the way things were, people doing wagon deliveries wouldn’t have to interrupt your fishing... unfortunately, it’s like the Wild West out there...

Well, to be fair, long distance wagon deliveries are subject to being raided robbed, etc.. that is part of the game.

I dont mind that at all, now mind you I never waste my time doing it to others as I know how frustrating it is to get all that stuff together then try to deliver it, but when it happened to me, I didnt get upset, I realized, I took a chance and lost, which is why I now only do local deliveries, lol it is $500 gauranteed that extra $150 I can make up by collecting while out there and I put my camp so these local delivers take me around 3 minutes, so the time I Save allows me to more than make up for that $150.

That isnt griefing, it is just playing the game as it was intended,  grieifng is people going out of their way when you are doing nothing or some benign thing and they go out of their way to kill you, chase you around the map, follow you to other servers, bait you in then take advantage of the current system to make you the red blip etc..

Killing you while you re fishing definitely qualifies as griefing if you ask me.

Any activity meant to ruin your time for their amusement when it is not necessarily part of the game meaning there is no gain for them to do it.

We will never be rid of it as people are just unpredictable and curious and etc.. so it will always happen to some extent and that is part of the game to, we cant help it or fully stop it, but it has been reduced to such small factor that you just dont see it as much as it used to happen.

 

Edited by lumper
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3 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

I know your intent. I was just making a goofy statement to kind of highlight the difference, since there does seem to be a portion of the population that can’t separate griefing from legitimate activity.

LOL, gotchya.

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59 minutes ago, lumper said:

Keans advice is sound advice to be sure to minimize these things, especially if you are vulnerable because of your rank or loadout, I just take issue with this approach personally, despite how difficult it is to mitigate no player should have to have their time interrupted because other players just decide to hassle you, in a game with several ways to pvp, there just is no excuse, I think we make way to many concessions for players doing this. I have never killed another player or even shot at another player who didnt shoot at me first, and Ive played nearly every day for 8 months, so I just think others could show a little respect for others time and use the rule, if you dont me, dont shoot at me, unless I am shooting at you.

But as we all know that just isnt how it is , but it does seem to be a LOT better than it was.

As I recall, you struggled in RDO in the beginning.  .....a lot.  More than many around here if I'm going to be honest.  Almost giving up the game a couple times in fact.  A lot of us tried providing advice and over time, you started coming around.  IIRC, that was due in part to following some of the suggestions folks provided and eventually, the changes that R* made to the game and the fact that you stuck with it.  You got over your hurdles and have done a complete 180 which is great.  

However, what I never agreed with was the take on some of the griefing issues, etc. being so much worse in those days as I felt a lot was simply due to the way people were exposing themselves to trolls.  The fact is, some of the problems were not that difficult to mitigate which is what some of us were trying to drive home for those having issues. .....joining a posse, spawning in several states from your destination, using the app to spot other players, etc.  

There's no doubt the new tools, revisions of existing ones, penalties and such have greatly helped, but there were always effective ways to help people avoid the griefing problem and some of them still work really well today.  ....and it really has little to do with being kitted out or leveled up IMO.   

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28 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

As I recall, you struggled in RDO in the beginning.  .....a lot.  More than many around here if I'm going to be honest.  Almost giving up the game a couple times in fact.  A lot of us tried providing advice and over time, you started coming around.  IIRC, that was due in part to following some of the suggestions folks provided and eventually, the changes that R* made to the game and the fact that you stuck with it.  You got over your hurdles and have done a complete 180 which is great.  

However, what I never agreed with was the take on some of the griefing issues, etc. being so much worse in those days as I felt a lot was simply due to the way people were exposing themselves to trolls.  The fact is, some of the problems were not that difficult to mitigate which is what some of us were trying to drive home for those having issues. .....joining a posse, spawning in several states from your destination, using the app to spot other players, etc.  

There's no doubt the new tools, revisions of existing ones, penalties and such have greatly helped, but there were always effective ways to help people avoid the griefing problem and some of them still work really well today.  ....and it really has little to do with being kitted out or leveled up IMO.   

 I Am very aware of your position, you say if you play a certain way, stay away from others, give a wide berth, etc.. you can minimize your issues, I get it.

And I did take your advice for a time and it was somewhat effective, no doubt.

I was more disapointed because I had avoided online games for years but I loved this game so much I coudnt get enough, after finishing the story ode 3 times I jumped in and well, things didnt get off to a good start.

My very first day in the online game a group of players slowly followed me to my camp, which I was running to because I thought it gauranted my safety and I didnt know what they were up too,  one took my horse and started leading him away and I panicked and started shooting, lol I was quickly killed and then after a few more kills, all on my part as I had a cattleman, a carbine and I think a bow, we started talking and they laughed and explained to me, as a matter of practice when they see a new player they like to follow them to their camp and then just be obnoxious to see what the new player does, kind of a crappy thing to do, but to them this was fun.

That was my first ever day in game, and I have three or four other really rough days, actually far worse than that day, but after a while as I Said above, I developed a strategy similar to what you recommended I do, and that shifted over time.

Your advice is good advice and yes it will help a player struggling with others a little, no doubt, but again, I love this game and I am not going to continually be the one to yield.

The day the Spring update hit, that first day with the hostility system in place, I went to Valentine, parked my horse and walked up and down the sidewalk, shopping, drinking etc.. it was great, I had no fear at all, I had over estimated the systems protections, but for that day, it was glorious and so much fun, for the very first time I did whatever I wanted to do with zero fear of being hassled, and once you taste that freedom, there is no going back.

Im also stubborn, as my game history will clearly show, when I set out to do something, one way or the other I do it, but you and a few others did keep me in game in the early days as my expectations were a lot different than what I experienced and I was truly disappointed.

I basically played alone, all the time, I either hid in Colter hunting and running those missions over and over and over to level up and before that I fished, I fished my way from level 7 to level  38, then from 38 to 100 I ran Colter, sure I still had issues but they were far fewer over all and they didnt bother me as much as I had a hard target goal.

Also, around level 38 I joined a mil sim community which meant I wasnt alone anymore, we did a lot of recruiting and fought group battles, etc.. and that conditioning and experience gave me the confidence and drive to level up and fight back so the remaining 62 levels werent as agonizing as the first 38, plus they ran some bonus weeks where they lowered the requirements for certain horses and weapons, and I took advantage of those times, I was grinding like it was my job.

When I got to level 94ish it was in sight, once I hit level 100 I switched my strategy once again I equipped myself and did whatever I wanted, I didnt walk on egg shells or hide anymore, I ran all the missions, I did the remaining story missions I didnt know existed because I was always high honor, etc.. as I was able to protect myself a lot more than when I was a lower level fewer issues sprung up.

So, after level 100 I no longer stressed over it in general and I definitely didnt yield to players simply because I Was afraid of being attacked, once you get dyna arrows and exploding rounds and tier 3 cards, your confidence goes way up.

Today, if you just start it is a whole other game, I see people everyday in game and we are all so busy collecting, hunting, etc.. most of the time, there is no interaction, some times we talk and hang a bit, and every once in a while usually a new player will take some cheap shots, but it hardly ever happens at all anymore.

Only one time I can think of that a high level player just chose me to target for no reason, it happens, but as I said, even not worrying about others, it almost never happens at all anymore to me anyway.

 

 

Edited by lumper
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