Netnow66

There's a YouTube video of a guy really enjoying himself as he griefs players, some in Defensive mode (Red Dead Online (1.09) - Griefing Players in Defensive Mode...They Pressed Charges!!! - #RDR2--I didn't link here because of language). I submitted to Rockstar in a bug ticket that I have open and to Rockstar feedback. Rockstar needs to take another step since their anti griefing Defensive mode is so ineffective.

If you are getting killed while in Defensive mode, Rockstar may be interested in seeing videos of it. Here is the conversation I have been having with Rockstar support over the last few days. If you're a griefer or are pro griefer, I get that you don't see a problem here. Fine. However, if you are anti griefer and got killed or have videos of Defensive players getting killed, you might want to contact Rockstar and report it as a glitch as I did. ----------------------------------------------- (Rockstar support name) (Rockstar Support) May 18, 05:56 EDT Hello (my name) , Thank you for your response. We understand that although you are in defensive mode, other players are causing the trouble. We would look into this, before that could you please provide us with a video where you are in defensive mode but still other players are attacking. This will give us a better picture of the issue. We appreciate your continuous patience. If the video is too long to upload to this ticket, please add an unlisted video to YouTube and provide us with the direct link to it. Once we have this information, we will research your issue and get back with you when we reach a resolution. Please let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with any of these steps. Best regards, (Rockstar support name) Rockstar Support ------------------------------------ (my name) May 17, 07:31 EDT What I need here is some honesty. Submitting to Rockstar Feedback never gets me answers (you can check my account to see how many submissions I have sent in). I need to find out if the mechanics of Red Dead Online are working and I'm not getting a clear answer from you as of yet. I'm sorry to keep bothering you but I need clarity as far as the Offensive/Defensive mechanic is concerned. As I told you, I and other players are still getting killed by griefers while in game. Is Offensive/Defensive working as intended? Are players supposed to be able to kill me so easily? If Offensive/Defensive is working as intended now, will anything EVER be done to prevent us from being griefed in game? Bottom line, just be honest and tell us players if we will ever be able to play in "a fun and fair environment for everyone" as was stated in the Red Dead Online ads. The game is out of beta now and some of us need to know if we spent our money wisely or not. I purposely bought this game for the online portion knowing that Rockstar promised "a fun and fair environment for everyone." Now that the game is out of beta, will you or someone else at Rockstar be honest enough to tell us what to expect? Will we ever be able to be free from griefers in "a fun and fair environment for everyone"? ________________________________ (Rockstar support name) (Rockstar Support) May 16, 23:11 EDT Hello (my name) , Thank you for your reply. We certainly understand frustration with regards to other players in the game. We apologize for the inconvenience. We would like to inform you that once theses players are reported in the game, we will look into these players. To keep the gameplay environment as fair as possible for legitimate players, we routinely do sweeps to separate out cheaters and modders in the game. Also, if you would like to provide feedback or ideas for Red Dead Online, please submit it via this link http://www.reddeadonline.com/feedback. We will appreciate your patience and understanding. If you have any other issues or queries, please feel free to contact us. Best regards, (Rockstar support name) Rockstar Support ---------------------------------------------- (my name) May 16, 07:15 EDT I am reading and seeing reports from other players who are also complaining about being griefed while in Defensive mode. Defensive mode is not working, at least not to the degree that it is actually defending people! It seems that all you have to do is shotgun someone in the back and they die. We waited all this time for you to stop the griefing and now the game is no longer in beta. Are you going to leave us to be griefed by these idiots every time we log in? I shouldn't have to get killed by some fool and THEN block him. Is Rockstar going to protect players from griefers or not? Your promotional copy said that Red Dead Online would be "a fun and fair environment for everyone." Now that the game is no longer in beta, are you going to ensure that these miscreants cannot attack us or not? Many of us waited for Offensive/Defensive because you said it would prevent griefing. It is not working as it is now, at least to the extent that it is actually preventing me from being griefed. ________________________________ (Rockstar support name) (Rockstar Support) May 16, 04:39 EDT Hello (my name) , Thank you for contacting Rockstar Support. We understand that you are unable to play game due to other player in Red Dead Online. We apologize for the inconvenience. Unwanted player interactions can be dealt with by blocking the offending user using platform tools. Below are some steps you can take to block interactions as well as report behavior that you feel rises to the level of abuse. If at any time you feel there is a threat to your personal safety, please contact your local police department. Use the block / mute features on your platform to prevent the player from communicating with you. https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/get-help/help-library/my-account/parental-controls/how-to-use-your-playstation-4-to-block-or-unblock-a-playstation-/ Do let us know if you have any other issues or queries. We are happy to assist you. Best regards, (Rockstar support name) Rockstar Support ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (my name) May 15, 11:50 EDT What the hell? I'm playing in Defensive mode and some player rides up and blasts me! What is Defensive mode for if these aXXXXXX griefers can continue to kill me? Is this some kind of a glitch or is this working as intended? The players name is (the griefer's name) and after killing me, I parleyed and he walked up into my face and started doing emotes. I then pressed charges, then reported in game, then blocked him on PSN. I'm pretty sure I recorded the video also, if it is needed. I need to know what is expected from me as an RDO player. I took the time to put my character into Defensive mode and I still got attacked. What is going on?!

I am firmly anti griefer though my take on the general sentiment of most here seems to be "they make the game more interesting." You're 100% correct, Defensive mode does not make players safe. I and others have reported being killed while in Defensive mode. I reported it to Rockstar as a glitch the first day (I was shotgunned in the back while in Defensive mode) and I have been in an interesting conversation with Rockstar support over the last few days. When I find an appropriate place to post it, I will or just start another thread. I gave Defensive a chance and, though I'm getting griefed less, I am still being griefed. So, yeah, since Rockstar can't get it right, they should just give us separate lobbies. Even though I am playing the game much less now, I usually try and find glitched solo/passive lobbies when I do because Rockstar still can't get it right.

To be honest, it probably is working as intended. I was more surprised at how quickly I went down. I don't feel I had enough time to do anything--but die. I'll be curious to see what Rockstar has to say.

Yeah, just got shotgunned in the back while leaving the post office. Defensive mode definitely was on. I parlayed, pressed charges, reported to Rockstar, blocked on PSN--and reported it as a bug to Rockstar. Well, i guess I found out what I needed to know...sigh... Anyone know how quickly the player is notified of pressed charges? While I was parlayed, the guy actually got in my face and started doing emotes. I did all the reporting and blocking, then went to my player list to get the accurate spelling to report in the bug report. He had left the server.

Left on D pad, Online Options, Playing Style. It seems that everytime you log off and log back on, it puts you into Offensive mode. You have to select Defensive, then you get a message saying something like "Defensive mode will enable in 30 seconds." That's the most I have in terms of a quibble for now, I wish it would just remember the setting, especially since I won't be using Offensive at all. I logged in and purposely went to Valentine and Armadillo, places I've had the most problems before. Bodies and gunfire all around me and I just sauntered in on my horse. I got clipped by one bullet but it had little effect. Not sure what will happen if someone ever trains all their firepower on me. The butcher continued to service me amidst all of the carnage--not sure if that is intentional or not. Seems interesting so far...I'll know more when people get home from work/school and things get really crowded.

I agree we are talking about opinions here. What I am also saying is that the opinion of some people is that they shouldn't have to deal with griefers and I'm only going by what Rockstar said in their promotional material. If it wasn't going to be true, they shouldn't have said it. That's why some people complain to Rockstar. That's why some people complain on forum boards. Another opinion is why certain people play. While you might find it worth something if you can kill a griefer who comes after you or even escape him, everyone does not. That is not the way I choose to play this game (which is why I play in solo/passive lobbies when I play). Rockstar, for whatever reason, is implementing anti griefing measures. That, to me, says a sizable amount of gamers have complained and they don't want to be bothered by bullying griefers. So, yes, I acknowledge the opinion of some is that they should be allowed to grief other players--now it's up to Rockstar to determine if they will allow griefers to bother players who want nothing to do with them or just allow offensive mode players to only interact with other offensive mode players. I plan on playing free roam only in defensive mode and saving my shoot 'em up stuff for the different quick join modes. I guess we'll have to wait and see to what extent Rockstar allows bullying griefers to bother defensive mode players.

Oh, you mean after the bully has killed me once? I guess I don't want to get killed by some bullying griefer even once. We'll have to wait and see if Rockstar agrees with offensive/defensive.

That remains to be seen...once offensive/defensive is introduced...once it's out of beta...we'll see if the bullying griefers still have things their way. I'm interested in the game Rockstar said they were making in their first promotional content and that's not a game where bullies get to do what they want. Rockstar said "a fun and fair environment for everyone. " That doesn't sound like a game where bushwhackers get to shoot me when I'm at the butcher, but who knows. I guess we'll have to wait to see how it turns out in the end.

Bottom line, Rockstar has said they will implement offensive/defensive (eventually...maybe...hopefully) so, if it works the way we have been told, the griefing bullies will only be able to grief one another, just the way I feel the game should be played. If Rockstar agreed with the griefers, there would be no reason for them to make any anti griefing changes, right? So I guess they don't agree, for whatever their reasons, that griefers should be allowed to bother players who want nothing to do with them. When I want to play the shoot 'em up role, there are more than enough game modes in RDO that allow that for me. This game can be played various ways--emphasizing PvP is only one of them. Every person in the Old West was not a bushwhacker--and Rockstar even stated in their early promotion of the game that you would be able to play the game various ways. Again, if Rockstar had said "We will not implement any anti griefing measures" (as some games have said), then I would agree with some of the griefing arguments being made. But Rockstar is not saying that, they're saying "We will prevent these griefers from bullying you." Granted we haven't seen it yet, but they say it's coming...they say...it's...coming... In the meantime, when I do bother to log in (there are other good games out here now), I use solo/passive lobbies to avoid the griefing bullies and will do so until offensive/defensive drops.

Yes but, just as in real life, bullying isn't tolerated, at least by civilized people.

Unfortunately for me, Kerosene, Tar, and Greed, More Than One Way to Earn a Buck and Kill Them, Each and Every One are the best missions in the game. I've only been able to play "Kill Them Each..." for the longest time now, even when I select quick roam missions. I can select "Kill Them All..." from my list of completed missions. As much as I really don't want to, I think I will have to take nshanny73's advice.

I think you misunderstood. Here's my quote (the italics are added)-- "In Red Dead Redemption 2, I'm forced to play a character that thinks nothing like me and certainly looks nothing like me." My point was that in Red Dead Redemption 2 (offline single player), you had to play the typical character/game on rails, while in Red Dead Online, you can play any way and even create your character any way you wish. Simply put, I was stating that I liked the options of Red Dead Online (online multiplayer) such as personalized character creation but didn't care for the lack of options in Red Dead Redemption 2 (offline single player).

Very nicely put. I agree with about 99% of what you wrote. And, for me personally, a game that is so full and rich with content is wasted if played as a shooter. As you said, there are other games that fit the bill.

Two endings equals on rails to me--it's just two sets of them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't do what it does almost better than any other game of its type that I've played. But I've been there and done that. In Red Dead Redemption 2, I'm forced to play a character that thinks nothing like me and certainly looks nothing like me. As usual. I had no interest in purchasing that game. But RDO changes all that. Choose sex. Choose race. Choose outlaw/comboy/gunslinger/hunter/fisherman, not just for part of the game but for the whole game if you wish. That's why RDO is the game I wanted to play and it's the game that I purchased. Now if Rockstar only makes it the game they stated it was going to be in the beginning (with updates like the upcoming offensive/defensive hopefully), I won't have any problem playing that way.

Most I know are waiting for the offensive/defensive update to drop. Others, such as myself, are content playing in solo/passive lobbies when we bother to log in--which isn't very often for me.

I purchased the game specifically knowing online was coming and played story mode maybe two or three hours. I had no interest in playing a single player story on rails which I considered story mode to be.

I wasn't asking for you to come up with a solution, I was just stating the condition of the game as I and some others see it, more in line with the original post. I did smarten up. I thought that I mentioned that I play on solo or passive servers most of the time. And Rockstar is supposedly going to correct at least part of their error with offensive/defensive, so I don't have to feel like a real outlaw whenever I log in.

Because they aren't letting me play the way I wish.

...that's my point...

That's what I meant. We are all cowboys, but not necessarily outlaws or gunslingers. Hah! Touche! maybe...read on... Maybe, reformed. We've seen the light after prison...well, some of us have, hence the ability to be 100% honorable...now. However... Interestingly enough, at about 4:30, Horley mentions that folks were rounded up in sham trials and that the character didn't commit the murder. He also says we might want to put it all behind us...but it's obvious the character was in prison for something he didn't do. Even Ms. LeClerk admits the character was no angel but didn't commit the crime he was in prison for. He could have just been a pig/cow slaughterer, like me...not a backshooting, spawnkilling, butcher camping, fishing popper griefer like those I run to online. Though I do admit the first mission is to kill those, supposedly bad guys, the mail guy sends him after.

I see Rockstar's base concept is that we all play as cowboys but they acknowledge that every cowboy is not an outlaw or a gunslinger.

I guess the problem we have stems from your apparent belief that I should have to plan a route to a butcher to avoid a griefer. I don't believe that should be the case. I guess we'll see what Rockstar comes up with in terms of that when offensive/defensive drops. In The Road Ahead, Rockstar specifically mentions "cowboys, outlaws and gunslingers." All players are only one of those...but not all three.

If I run a stranger mission, I would consider that a "mutual combat' situation. Any problems I encounter when I do that are my problem. You griefing me when I'm spawning in, fishing or running to the butcher with an animal over my shoulder isn't a mutual combat situation.

Interesting how some say they never have any problem with griefers...while some people say they have actually stopped playing the game because of them. I've played this game since it first went online and I have experienced griefing 95% of the time when I'm in free roam (when I play for long lengths of time) unless I play in a glitched solo/passive lobby which I do on a pretty regular basis now. Just because you say you haven't been griefed does not mean that others haven't been. There are people on this forum board that love this game but even they admit that there is griefing and advise people to "posse or weapon up" to avoid them. I guess maybe the way you play the game, you can simply describe it as "the game is about killing." For me and for some others, "the game is about being a cowboy/cowgirl." So, yes, that does probably entail having to kill animals--but certainly not people, especially people who want nothing to do with griefers. One of the reasons I didn't like the offline version is because I felt that, even though I played only a smattering of it, I felt the main character was reprehensible (by the way, as a bit of a response to a poster above, I and some others purchased the game because of the online component, knowing that it would eventually be added to the game). It seems to come as a surprise to some here that the majority of people actually made it thru the Wild West without murdering anyone. EDIT: Of course, one has to understand the definition of both murder and griefing to understand my point.