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R* supports griefers as a comercial strategy


donbzm
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PVE players and passive players can easily accumulate resources, but they take more time to do so. For R*, we are useless and unprofitable players consuming server resources. Usually these players will not spend real money on the game, as they don't have a competitive profile and they tend to have more patience to accumulate resources. PVPs needs to improve fast, so they tend to spend real money to accelerate the proccess and increase their chances against others PVP players (who improves fast too). Of Course, R* likes that! Players who consume long time server resources and do not pay real money are a R * nightmare. R * will do anything possible to get these people away from the game. And the Griefers are R*' s great friends to achieve this. R* creates perfect scenarios to let griefers make PVE gameplay like an inferno! Unfortunately, I'm a passive player. I clearly feel that my gameplay style is not well seen by R * and it tries hard to create situations to keep me away from the game. Commercially speaking, I have already paid the license of the game. From now on, every minute online means only losses for R *. And R* is reaching its objective!

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@donbzm Not sure what the intent of this post was, but you're absolutely right. Businesses want your money, so they do what they deem necessary to get you to spend it. Nothing new. R* is capable of making games that people continue to spend money on for years after release. Once they saw they had gotten it right (for them), why would they change it? I fully expected RDO to be a cash grab like GTAO is. It's built for those who want to spend MORE money on the game. For those that don't, they have story mode.

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41 minutes ago, donbzm said:

PVE players and passive players can easily accumulate resources, but they take more time to do so. For R*, we are useless and unprofitable players consuming server resources. Usually these players will not spend real money on the game, as they don't have a competitive profile and they tend to have more patience to accumulate resources. PVPs needs to improve fast, so they tend to spend real money to accelerate the proccess and increase their chances against others PVP players (who improves fast too). Of Course, R* likes that! Players who consume long time server resources and do not pay real money are a R * nightmare. R * will do anything possible to get these people away from the game. And the Griefers are R*' s great friends to achieve this. R* creates perfect scenarios to let griefers make PVE gameplay like an inferno! Unfortunately, I'm a passive player. I clearly feel that my gameplay style is not well seen by R * and it tries hard to create situations to keep me away from the game. Commercially speaking, I have already paid the license of the game. From now on, every minute online means only losses for R *. And R* is reaching its objective!

While I agree that R* does like players attacking other players just to slow down their grind.   GTA O is proof of that.


You're whole narrative kinda falls apart when you posse up

This is not a passive game and isn't meant to be played as one.   You either outrun players, out gun them or out number them.  

Even NPCS can spawn out of no where and kill you.

 

Hopefully R* adds private lobbies.  So players who don't want to deal with other players can play there.

Edited by HuDawg
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1 hour ago, Truth said:

@donbzm Not sure what the intent of this post was, but you're absolutely right. Businesses want your money, so they do what they deem necessary to get you to spend it. Nothing new. R* is capable of making games that people continue to spend money on for years after release. Once they saw they had gotten it right (for them), why would they change it? I fully expected RDO to be a cash grab like GTAO is. It's built for those who want to spend MORE money on the game. For those that don't, they have story mode.

Nothing specific, just my opinion about the griefer's situation. I fully agree about "business want money", and fully agree R* did a great job. But why not find a way to make it profitable with passive players? My problem is not the price nor if I have to pay more for DLCs or other resources, I just want to play the way I like. Even if I pay more, I won't have a great experience with the game the way it is now. GTAO is not a great exemple, once it lets you play in passive mode, private lobbies, etc. and it works very well.

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

While I agree that R* does like players attacking other players just to slow down their grind.   GTA O is proof of that.


You're whole narrative kinda falls apart when you posse up

This is not a passive game and isn't meant to be played as one.   You either outrun players, out gun them or out number them.  

Even NPCS can spawn out of no where and kill you.

 

Hopefully R* adds private lobbies.  So players who don't want to deal with other players can play there.

I disagree this is not a passive game. R* added fishing, hunting and harvest in the game. And even NPC and animals being able to atack you, you have a chance of defense and can opt where to go or how to play if you want to avoid them. It's not like you are arriving somewhere just to sell a hunt and you are killed by someone with absolutly no point. The game is not only your charactere, your horse and your guns like griefers make it likes. It's a full enviroment with lots of oportunities and fun... I am a level 388 player in GTAO, and I don't killed more than 10 players in "free roam" mode for all this years. I know it's possible, and maybe r* will make it possible someday.

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1 hour ago, donbzm said:

PVE players and passive players can easily accumulate resources, but they take more time to do so. For R*, we are useless and unprofitable players consuming server resources. Usually these players will not spend real money on the game, as they don't have a competitive profile and they tend to have more patience to accumulate resources. PVPs needs to improve fast, so they tend to spend real money to accelerate the proccess and increase their chances against others PVP players (who improves fast too). Of Course, R* likes that!

If you're suggesting RDO is a P2W model, it isn't.  Anything locked behind Gold Bars is essentially cosmetic.  What really matters in RDO when talking a competitive edge is leveling up because that's when weapons, special ammo, ability cards, etc. become available.  .....and in-game currency is easy enough (since they change the economy) to obtain those items once you do.

If anything, R* uses a pay to shortcut model.  .....and I agree in that case but I also don't have a problem with people being able to buy Shark Cards to get in-game money to buy better weapons, cars, etc. since that money is also available to anyone willing to work for it.  With Gold Bars, those items you can buy with them that may give you an advantage can also be bought with in-game currency.

1 hour ago, donbzm said:

Players who consume long time server resources and do not pay real money are a R * nightmare. R * will do anything possible to get these people away from the game. And the Griefers are R*' s great friends to achieve this. R* creates perfect scenarios to let griefers make PVE gameplay like an inferno! Unfortunately, I'm a passive player. I clearly feel that my gameplay style is not well seen by R * and it tries hard to create situations to keep me away from the game. Commercially speaking, I have already paid the license of the game. From now on, every minute online means only losses for R *. And R* is reaching its objective!

R* wants to attract all players to their online games.....period.  As they put it, "We're focused on players, not payers."  Their strategy is providing content for free to attract more players.  This is the key to GTAOs success and I have no doubt will be for RDO as well.  It's also part of the whole idea behind R*s version of their GaaS model.  They feel that if you can keep players coming with free content, "the monetisation will take care of itself.

In other words, the more the merrier because maintaining a healthy population is what it's all about.  R* knows not all players will purchase MTXs but they depend on those people to help maintain their player base.  R* doesn't consider non-MTX players a "nightmare".

One thing you have to understand is that GTAO and RDO public sessions are PvPvE.  As a PvE / co-op fan, I wish things were different in GTAO to cater more toward that crowd but it isn't.  .....and I kinda get that given the over the top, self indulgent, chaotic game world that is GTA.  ....but they also do allow PvEers to still play heists, missions, etc. with their friends or even solo through private servers, etc. without ever having to deal with subjecting yourself to griefers.  I suspect invite-only sessions will too come to RDO in time.  I think they haven't so far simply because it's easier to deal with changes and to test scenarios with everyone in the same bucket.  

Regardless, I think it's obvious that R* wants to take a different approach with Free Roam in RDO vs GTAO.  They have acknowledged the complaints about griefing and have committed to enacting "anti-griefing" measures in the near future.  I honestly think that R* wants to take a more balanced approach with RDO which (if so) will be great news for us PvEers.

Personally, I would rather take a wait and see approach as the game is nowhere near its final release state.  

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8 minutes ago, donbzm said:

I disagree this is not a passive game. R* added fishing, hunting and harvest in the game.

.. That's ONE SMALL side activity.  

This is Red Dead not a Hunting Simulator.    Its fun to hunt and fish....  But you need to remember what game you're playn'.

Game needs private lobbies tho.   

Edited by HuDawg
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Just now, HuDawg said:

.. That's ONE SMALL side activity.  

This is Red Dead not a Hunting Simulator.    Its fun to hunt and fish....  But you need to remember what game you're playn'.

Game needs private lobbies tho.   

We all know what game we're playing.  It's also represented in all of R*'s marketing for the mode....... "blending narrative with competitive and cooperative gameplay in fun new ways", "Red Dead Online will be ready to be explored alone or with friends, and will also feature constant updates and adjustments to grow and evolve this experience for all players.", etc., etc.

It's clear to me that R* wants to make Free Roam an experience for all to enjoy.  Yes, it's a PvPvE model but it needs balance.

Personally, I think there should be consequences for griefers.  As it is now, there are none and they roam around the game world with impunity.  There's no bounty, penalty, etc.  Regardless of whether I enjoy skirmishes at times, it can be very frustrating and fun-ruining being trolled especially when you really just want to do your own thing solo or with friends.  ......and especially when you are at a steep disadvantage whether that's being outnumbered or being bullied by a fully kitted player(s) dozens of levels above you.  There is absolutely no fun in that IMO / IME.  Even when I do have the advantage, killing someone over and over again because they won't go away is boring is not my idea of a great time.

Regardless, R* has acknowledged that griefing is one of the most received complaints from fans and they have committed to trying to balance the gameplay as a result.  Whether that puts some people off, it is all that matters to me.  Private sessions are great and I would still love to see them materialize, but if GTAO is any indication, Free Roam may be the only option if you want to participate in most businesses and related missions.  In that case, I would prefer R* address the Free Roam concern sooner rather than later.   .....and I for one am glad they are listening.

Let's face it....  These anti-griefing measures are not going to stop people from trolling.  Some may even see the new bounty system, etc. as a challenge.  I just hope the gameplay feels more balanced is all.

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1 hour ago, Kean_1 said:

If you're suggesting RDO is a P2W model, it isn't.  Anything locked behind Gold Bars is essentially cosmetic.  What really matters in RDO when talking a competitive edge is leveling up because that's when weapons, special ammo, ability cards, etc. become available.  .....and in-game currency is easy enough (since they change the economy) to obtain those items once you do.

I don't think RDO is or should be a P2W model, but it wouldn't hurt no one if we could play the game pretending it is. What I suggest is that Rockstar should put together players who like to kill each other and let they have fun. And let players who don't want trouble with other players away of them. It's not complicate, so I suggested a reason why R* has been so resistent in make passive mode avaliable. But I agree with your arguments

1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

.. That's ONE SMALL side activity.  

This is Red Dead not a Hunting Simulator.    Its fun to hunt and fish....  But you need to remember what game you're playn'.

Game needs private lobbies tho.   

That's not ONE SMALL side activity. Rockstar really created a complex mechanism for hunting like trail search, specific tools and guns... It's not like "you can kill some animals while playing". You can hunt, take the peal (don't know how to say this in english), take the meat, you can trade, use the meat as food, etc. Anything but small... And I agree it's not a hunting simulator, R* has the magic abilility to create differents kind of games inside a single game, and it's hard to make an specific classification.  But following your point of view, I can say free roam is not a Battle Royale where the only reason to be there is to find others players to kill or hide to no be killed.

48 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

Let's face it....  These anti-griefing measures are not going to stop people from trolling.  Some may even see the new bounty system, etc. as a challenge.  I just hope the gameplay feels more balanced is all.

I agree with almost everything. And the quoted text is exactly what I think. R*, for one reason or another, doesn't want to give a great experience for players who want to play in peace. I love this game, it's perfect. I only think R* can consider players like me. Like you said, probably they are doing this.

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Everything boils down to money. To say this gaming company doesn't care about money or it isn't the main priority is laughable. 

I can see your point. Having people that are good at the game or at least good at exposing aspects to have the upper hand on other players will encourage people to buy (spend real money) on the game to get better items to fight back or at the very least, to protect themselves. The posse aspect of the game is designed to help protect us from this in a way but if you want to run solo or your other mates can't play when you can, you are just a sitting duck. 

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