Why do you grief?

[GMak81]

As a Western themed game I can see future implementations of game mechanics which work to allow more outlaw/lawman roleplaying.

Currently people seem to have to kinda make up their own ways of being a good/bad guy, and I can see both points of view.  There's also another point that some kids etc and genuinely nasty people want to impose misery on others...and there should be ways to do this which enhance the game, not lead to endless arguments about what is/isn't "griefing".  And for anti-griefers there should be incentive to hunt these people down...like a bounty system perhaps?

Should people be allowed to ruthlessly rob and kill NPCs and PCs?  Clearly, yes, because all of these GTA/RDR games are focused on those themes.  Should there be a penalty system built in to the game mechanics, like the bounty system...yes, because that happened in real life and is present in the single player.

I don't think we should confuse people's play styles with their real world personalities: an actor plays a role; a player does the same.  The character that they play is not the person playing it!

I can see that The Ugly (as a stranger to me) may be the nicest person in real life, but in this game world he wants to be a nasty piece of work...that should be allowed, as this is a brutal genre, where hard people would do what it took to survive...however if people committed crime they would be hunted down, wanted, become renowned for their eveil deeds and bounties would be placed.  Do the crime, do the time sort of thing.

I'm not sure whether this is truly Beta, or not, due to the presence of microtransactions, however if we consider the life cycle of this game in the context of GTA Online, we can appreciate this is very early days.

I think more mechanics will be introduced to reflect the Old West, bounty systems where killing leads to real consequences.  The Ugly wants to play an awful, ruthless killer and that's cool, but currently the mechanics don't quite cater to a fulfilling way of doing that.

Poggy and others tend more towards the Lawman role, wanting peace order and prosperity from lawful means, although I'm sure even he would not play a hunting/fishing simulator and accepts that in an outlaw game people will do bad things to NPC and PC alike!  

The game is SCREAMING for an official implementation of systems to allow and enhance the good guy/bad guy roleplaying elements.

Also as per history, sometimes lawmen and outlaws weren't so very different, and sometimes a person would act in ways that went against their roles, lawmen committing crimes, outlaws becoming lawmen etc.

So imagine a guy like The Ugly wants to be evil and get hunted down...implement a bounty system where there would be a price on his head for his crimes.  Maybe at some point he is so wanted, and there is a reward for players that kill him, that he can't go anywhere without being relentlessly hunted: so there is some "redemption" system, where he can ease the heat by doing some good deeds etc.

Conclusion: Rockstar may be working, watching and listening to feedback, to see what players want combined with their own vision of the game.  It seems logical from the genre, the singleplayer, history of the Wild West, and feedback from players that enhanced roleplaying mechanics are needed and will most likely be introduced.  Griefers could grief, with consequences that hurt ther character through fines etc.  Anti-griefers could be lawmen and bounty hunters.  People's online character could fluidly change from good to bad and back again as people are not generally all good or all evil.

I think changes are needed, obvious, will come soon, and could make this online aspect a really good simulation of the West with its cops and robbers implemented in a truly satisfying way for all concerned.

 

[Poggy]

Just to point out a misconception expressed above: I don't lean towards a lawman role.  I'm a maximum dishonour outlaw who regularly kills for no reason.  I RP as a 'bad man'.

The difference between me and Ugly is that because I recognise that griefing real people causes real life irritation, I limit RPing to the game (NPCs, or PCs who have expressed a desire to fight), the pretend 'misery' I cause doesn't radiate out into real life.  See my community hall book scribbling analogy for my POV on this. 

The big point of disagreement with GMak and me is whether there's any connection between RL behaviour/character and griefing.  I think it obviously true there is: bad character is demonstrated by bad behaviour, and deliberately causing RL irritation in innocent others is a clear bad action.  

The 'it's allowed by the game' defence is not adequate: Firstly, a lack of policing isn't the same as 'allowed' (and the very fact they are talking of how stop griefing suggests that R* too don't really consider it a normal part of the game), and secondly, many sports strictly speaking 'allow' actions of bad sportsmanship, yet we still call these out as bad behaviours stemming from character flaws.  Griefing is very similar to bad sportsmanship.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Poggy

[YodaMan 3D]

18 hours ago, GMak81 said:

Should people be allowed to ruthlessly rob and kill NPCs and PCs?  Clearly, yes, because all of these GTA/RDR games are focused on those themes.  Should there be a penalty system built in to the game mechanics, like the bounty system...yes, because that happened in real life and is present in the single player.

I don't think we should confuse people's play styles with their real world personalities: an actor plays a role; a player does the same.  The character that they play is not the person playing it!

See I disagree, people in real life have a tendency to play close to their heart.  I can't say it isn't possible to play out of your comfort zone, but in reality are sure that isn't a nod to your ability control said traits.  

I have participated in RP games majority of my life and seen lots of strange characters and their players.  When I started playing online and open chat was available.  Listening to what some of the players was saying.  Let's just say, you don't just walk down the street saying those things to people.  

Yes, they're are some that RP and I have seen them in RDR2.  Majority of players aren't RPing.  They're releasing stress from their lives.  Players grief cause there is nothing in place to stop them.  They apparently have no self-control to stop themselves.  They get off on driving other players from the server, lobby, or game.  Contrary to what some may think, Rockstar doesn't want to lose players regardless if the game mechanics stop you or not when it comes to griefing.

[Vaderspupil]

Is it just me or are griefer's skills diminishing? For the last few nights, I've had people come after me. While they may have caught me off guard and got the initial kill, vengeance is ultimately mine as I return the favor tenfold  killing them multiple times with ease. Last night, I was playing solo and easily fended off an attack from a posse of 3 who thought they could easily take advantage of this lone wolf. They thought wrong dude!

I normally will give other players a wide berth, but you mess with the bull, you get the horns!

[HuDawg]

Im now officially a "Griefer' in R*s eyes..lol

 

So I join a game with friends in it.  I spawn next to one of them and notice a Wolf attacking him.   I shoot the wolf and next thing I know I get a "GRIEFING" penalty and my honor goes down.  

They where doing a free roam mission that required to hunt a wolf..  SO because I killed the wolf they where hunting I was the griefer..lol????

 

Yet funny enough.. If I would have waited for him to kill the wolf..  Then kill him and take the wolf.  That's OK... and not griefing.

R* logic at its finest

[YodaMan 3D]

2 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Im now officially a "Griefer' in R*s eyes..lol

 

So I join a game with friends in it.  I spawn next to one of them and notice a Wolf attacking him.   I shoot the wolf and next thing I know I get a "GRIEFING" penalty and my honor goes down.  

They where doing a free roam mission that required to hunt a wolf..  SO because I killed the wolf they where hunting I was the griefer..lol????

 

Yet funny enough.. If I would have waited for him to kill the wolf..  Then kill him and take the wolf.  That's OK... and not griefing.

R* logic at its finest

It is funny.  It really depends on what their idea about what is griefing and what isn't.