Is PvP damage inflicted/received based on level?

[Snipe]

I’ve played various online games on console and computer going back... a long ways. Even as a class team lead and formal beta tester on two. So I won’t go into all the details unless it seems relevant, just trust me that my reason for asking involves a couple encounters, and reviewing videos frame by frame before I ask this below. (I have only been doing RDR a few weeks though, so I’m not fully boned up on it yet).

I had an experience yesterday where I landed 3 shots, express ammo, Springfield rifle, rifle at 95% condition, on an enemy player. He was horseback, I was on the ground. (Yes I hit him, not the horse). He was swerving AWAY from me after a failed pass shooting at me, so I landed all these while he was not shooting me (he couldn’t get health from Strange Medicine). I landed the 3 shots as fast as I could reload, and I have Peak Condition III (much more damage when my stamina is above 75%).

Yet, I still didn’t kill him.

So, I look after the fight and see he’s level 88. I was level 43 at that time.

Even if I hit one of those shots as a headshot which got nullified by ‘always have one’ card, the other 2 shots should have killed... pretty much anyone, in my experience.

Since I was hitting him straight, he shouldn’t have been able to down a tonic, right? (I think).

So the question is pretty straight up: Is there proof that the ONLY difference between players of different levels is the cards? Or is there logic built into the game to reward levelers with tiered damage received/inflicted?

[Harlock1796]

2 shots from my Springfield (I tend to use High Velocity, rather than Express) will usually kill ayone, but the occasional person does seem more robust than usual.

A few ability cards reduce damage taken, and there are tonics too.  Lets assume that he has maxed out health, which should be a given by  lvl 88, then:

1. Never without one - reduces damage while wearing a hat, so if shots 1 and 2 hit the body, and 3 was a hatshot, youve got 2 reduced damage hits;

2. slow and steady - if after the first hit he goes into deadeye for the second one, shot 2 is being nerfed by NWO AND S&S, so maybe minimal damage;

3. if he's drunk a tonic that fortifies health, who knows what actual benefit that provides.

I still don't know what effect 'range' has.  Does it reduce damage over distance? Does it affect your lock-on distance? a bit of both?  Am I wasting my time with HV rounds?

I'm always a bit surprised if I get 2 hits with my trusty Springfield and the guy's still standing, but it does happen, and I don't think (though I might be wrong) that there is some sinister unseen damage modifier operating under the surface.   

Proof? Nope!

Edited February 14, 2019 by Harlock1796

[Captmarsh]

Aye - chances are maxed out certain ability cards and some tonics are often enough to take a barrage of shots. 

Pretty sure there is no relation to level other than maxed out ability cards. It is possible to stand toe to toe with several enemies and be the only one left standing with the right cards. 

There is a question on ability card load outs close to this thread which goes into far more detail.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Captmarsh

[Snipe]

@Harlock1796 Thanks, that was helpful having a sanity check from a fellow Springfield fanboy. 

I hadn’t thought of the possibility once I started hitting him, he could have fired Dead Eye and had the S&S damage reduction. That’s a viable scenario to explain it, along with NWO (which I’m pretty sure he had, the playback is hard to make out but I think I took his hat on the 2nd shot).

I wish I’d been able to check his abilities quickly enough to see for sure!

And thanks for your reply too Captmarsh, I have been stalking here a while and have been following the recent card load out thread already, it is quite fun to watch the feedback.

 

[Suck3rPunch3d]

I think it depends on their weight and what they are wearing more than their level. I could be wrong but that seems to be the most realistic scenario here.

[Purple Cactus]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:30 PM, Harlock1796 said:

2 shots from my Springfield (I tend to use High Velocity, rather than Express) will usually kill ayone, but the occasional person does seem more robust than usual.

A few ability cards reduce damage taken, and there are tonics too.  Lets assume that he has maxed out health, which should be a given by  lvl 88, then:

1. Never without one - reduces damage while wearing a hat, so if shots 1 and 2 hit the body, and 3 was a hatshot, youve got 2 reduced damage hits;

2. slow and steady - if after the first hit he goes into deadeye for the second one, shot 2 is being nerfed by NWO AND S&S, so maybe minimal damage;

3. if he's drunk a tonic that fortifies health, who knows what actual benefit that provides.

I still don't know what effect 'range' has.  Does it reduce damage over distance? Does it affect your lock-on distance? a bit of both?  Am I wasting my time with HV rounds?

I'm always a bit surprised if I get 2 hits with my trusty Springfield and the guy's still standing, but it does happen, and I don't think (though I might be wrong) that there is some sinister unseen damage modifier operating under the surface.   

Proof? Nope!

Thanks for the info man.

I was wondering which did what and how some players were able to take so much more damage than others. Kind of makes sense now. I have to pay more attention.

[dredd1961]

The difference in my opinion is the players loudout of ability cards (and tiers, l,ll or lll)  
Ranking would have some influence at a high level. For example, the ammo. Rank 90 allows you to buy explosive express rounds. 

[Major Dammidge]

Yes,  in an inside out and backwards sort of way. 

You need the level and the money, and the knowledge to apply the right combination of maxed-out ability cards.

It makes an adversary very very difficult to kill... who has extended time to eliminate you. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Major Dammidge
Misspell

[GatoNegro]

So leveling plays a role but only when you establish your cards and what not? I still don't fully understand the system they set up here lol 

They made it too complex in some areas. 

[Snipe]

I like the complexity. I’m aware of the many options for cards and ammo/weapons that open up as one gets higher in level, that’s easier. it is more observable and measurable in most ways, as it is mostly ‘damage #s’.

This stuff they’ve baked into DEFENSE is harder to get a handle on. Especially non-linear things like Never Without One which takes both headshots off the table, but then also some damage reduction, and when stacking (or not?) with other cards for reduction, what does that then do, etc.

As indicated earlier, I am willing for now to accept that a level 90 has no sliding damage or defense adjuster that goes up or down based on the level of the enemy player being faced... what I saw a couple times could be explained away by just the cards they get at higher levels being layered in the right way, with the right leveling on the cards.

However. I’m nervous that this lack of transparency means that a bug can creep in where things should (or shouldn’t) stack, and it is going to be hard for R* or us to pin it down when we see some players CLEARLY finding the min-max holes or exploiting those bugs.