Has 'press charges' changed or has it always been like this?

[SimonTemplar]

Morning all.  I'm back playing the game daily (daily streak 5/7, whoop whoop!) as the latest update seems finally to have cleared my glitches.  So I'm back to asking smaller, day to day questions rather than railing against the generic unfairness of the universe.

I was in Armadillo last night.  Visited the Post Office, then rode along the high street to the Sheriff's office, looking for a collectible.  I passed a scrawny nag on the way in, so knew that there was a player around, but didn't see them.  Then just as I arrived at the Sheriff's office, a player stepped out from between two buildings.  He didn't have a weapon drawn, so I tipped my hat.  He waved back.  I then mosied over to the chest on the veranda along the row from the Sheriff's office, opened it, and then the other player jumped me from behind, got me in a headlock.  I broke free (I checked - he was level 25 so guess I'm stronger), turned around and he threw a punch.  So we had a scuffle, he went down, no weapons drawn, and I got the 25xp for knocking out another player.  Then suddenly it flashes up that he's dead, and I get the prompt that he has pressed charges.  Seems a bit rich!!  But anyway, I turn and walk towards my horse, planning just to leave (and ditching the collectible idea), but then he has respawned and come steaming back towards me, on foot, shooting at me with a repeater.  Bullets ricocheting around me but didn't hit me.  So I drew my navy and killed him.  Then mounted my horse and rode out.  I got a second prompt, telling me that he had pressed charges again, and that my hostility level had risen.

Given I never start a fight, and that he tried to kill me not once but twice, how on Earth has he been able to press charges against me twice?  The first time I didn't even try to kill him I just hit him back.  Not my fault that he picked a fight he couldn't handle.  I'd have left him unconscious and left.  I couldn't press charges against him (presumably as I didn't die?).  But that seems out of whack to me.  What do you all think?

[NF85]

Well i dont freem roam pvp, but kinda have to ask, where you both in offensive mode?  (aka strong blue dot or faded blue dot?)

 

[SimonTemplar]

4 hours ago, NF85 said:

Well i dont freem roam pvp, but kinda have to ask, where you both in offensive mode?  (aka strong blue dot or faded blue dot?)

 

I hadn't messed with my mode, I never do, just ride around in whatever it gives me, so would assume I was blue.  That was my first player encounter of the session.  He was blue also.  But my issue is more that I met the threshold for him pressing charges against me purely because I punched a guy who was headlocking me, then again because I returned fire, but neither of his attacks on me gave me the option to press charges against him.  So it seems a bit off somewhere.  I don't even particularly mind - I don't go around assaulting people, so presumably my status stays pretty calm, and when there's a daily challenge to keep low aggression for a day then I keep passing them even though I don't go on stealth mode or whatever it is.  But it seems off that he can attack me, but I can't press charges because I didn't die, but he can press charges against me purely because I defend myself.  I can see lots of low level players abusing that.  And I don't want to walk around half invisible as it dents immersion.

(No idea if I was dark blue or light blue - don't know the difference and don't know how to check!)

Edited March 20, 2020 by SimonTemplar

[Dissention]

Nothing has changed...It's an old griefers trick.    They  lose, they press charges and jump servers.   

Only the person that dies can press charges. 

And I'm not 100% sure but if they hit you first and turn red (ie.  Why they use the lasso or fist fight) they are supposed to lose the ability to press charges but game is a bug filled mess as many of us know.

I've never griefed only self defense but pretty sure after a  whole lot of people pressing charges against you and you reach high hostility, you lose access to the butcher, moonshine shack and post office and it will kick you from session.  Ie.  Why they jump servers.

Also pretty sure They also have a dumb system in place that if a lower level player gets killed by a higher level player they spawn them farther away and turn them blue.

But like everything else in game it doesn't work right.

System been screwed up and abused since day 1.

My overall summary R* doesn't know how they want to position this game and everything is shrouded in the mystery of how it supposed to work vs how it actually works...is it GTO, is it something in-between...

 

I just let others take the first shot and respond as required.

 

[NF85]

As i see it, it is a testbed for gta6o.

Remember, first 5 months of release was gank heaven as there was no pvp restrictions, and it did not change before majority of us players points out that fact true negative revs. The fact that there is no solo, private or posse only server options means R* originaly wanted it to be pvp gank heaven.

It could very well be that the press charges system that was added later are in conflict whit the basic pvp.

[Kean_1]

6 hours ago, SimonTemplar said:

I hadn't messed with my mode, I never do, just ride around in whatever it gives me, so would assume I was blue.  That was my first player encounter of the session.  He was blue also.  But my issue is more that I met the threshold for him pressing charges against me purely because I punched a guy who was headlocking me, then again because I returned fire, but neither of his attacks on me gave me the option to press charges against him.  So it seems a bit off somewhere.  I don't even particularly mind - I don't go around assaulting people, so presumably my status stays pretty calm, and when there's a daily challenge to keep low aggression for a day then I keep passing them even though I don't go on stealth mode or whatever it is.  But it seems off that he can attack me, but I can't press charges because I didn't die, but he can press charges against me purely because I defend myself.  I can see lots of low level players abusing that.  And I don't want to walk around half invisible as it dents immersion.

(No idea if I was dark blue or light blue - don't know the difference and don't know how to check!)

You can check your defensive / offensive status in the Player Menu.  I believe it's the last menu option at the bottom that will bring you to the screen where it will show your current state and give you the option to change it.

As for how all this is supposed to work, this is it in a nutshell although a couple of things had changed like the way the game is supposed to remember your last setting on the hostility mode although IME, it is always wise to check when you start a new session, etc. to make sure you;re in Defensive mode if that's your preferred setting.

 

Quote

The Offensive playing style is set as the default and is how most players traditionally interact in Free Roam – free to engage in hostile contact with other players if you are prepared to accept the potential consequences. 

The Defensive playing style is for those players who would rather explore the world in Free Roam than engage in conflict with others – and it’s designed to let other players know that you don’t want to tangle with them, as well as minimize opportunities for griefing. At the same time, Defensive players will not be alerted to PvP Free Roam missions and can not be pulled into them while in Defensive mode, allowing them to go about their business as freely as possible.

Players in Defensive mode will be indicated by a shield icon, will take reduced damage from enemy players, cannot be lassoed, melee attacked, executed or targeted with auto-aim. Defensive players will also be excluded from being targeted in PvP-related missions such as Player Assassination. Those who attack Defensive players receive hefty penalties via the Hostility system, while players who initiate conflict while in Defensive mode will be instantly pulled out of Defensive mode and also receive similar Hostility penalties.

Today’s updates also build on the player radar and visibility improvements introduced in February to create a smarter and more responsive approach to mitigating griefing behavior. The Hostility System tracks aggressive behavior across both Playing Styles, making hostile players visible to others and  helping to balance the needs of players who want to get away from others who habitually attack or kill during unstructured Free Roam gameplay. 

As before, player blips change color - beginning dark blue and transitioning to red as their hostile play persists. A bright red blip indicates an enemy. With today’s update, players will never receive Hostility or Bounty increases for defending themselves against a player who is blipped as an enemy, or for killing high Hostility players. If a player attacks another player, they will not be marked as an enemy to everyone - but rather to the attacked player only, who will not receive a penalty for firing back.

You can view your current Hostility level through the Player Menu. As you become more hostile, you become more visible on other player’s radars at longer distances and will respawn further and further away from your point of death – at the highest level of Hostility, you will respawn in a different region.

Hostility increases do not apply within structured events such as Free Roam Events, Free Roam Missions, Showdowns and Races. Engaging in PvP behaviors related to Free Roam missions will not incur Hostility increases while in the Offensive playing style, however attacking other players not engaged in the activity will cause your Hostility level to rise. 

Press Charges: When a lower Hostility player is killed without retaliating they will have an option to “Press Charges” during the respawn period, which will enforce an increase on their attacker’s Hostility and Bounty value. Press Charges is not available if you are a high Hostility player or marked as an enemy to the player who killed you.

 

[SimonTemplar]

On 3/20/2020 at 8:17 PM, Kean_1 said:

You can check your defensive / offensive status in the Player Menu.  I believe it's the last menu option at the bottom that will bring you to the screen where it will show your current state and give you the option to change it.

As for how all this is supposed to work, this is it in a nutshell although a couple of things had changed like the way the game is supposed to remember your last setting on the hostility mode although IME, it is always wise to check when you start a new session, etc. to make sure you;re in Defensive mode if that's your preferred setting.

 

 

Thanks.  I wasn't in defensive mode, checked last night, so I would have been blue to him.  The odd thing is that he was able to press charges against me when he attacked me, though, and I wasn't given the option to press charges against him.  I was very clearly defending myself - I had to break out of a choke hold before I could hit him at all!

[SimonTemplar]

On 3/20/2020 at 2:33 PM, Dissention said:

Nothing has changed...It's an old griefers trick.    They  lose, they press charges and jump servers.   

Only the person that dies can press charges. 

And I'm not 100% sure but if they hit you first and turn red (ie.  Why they use the lasso or fist fight) they are supposed to lose the ability to press charges but game is a bug filled mess as many of us know.

I've never griefed only self defense but pretty sure after a  whole lot of people pressing charges against you and you reach high hostility, you lose access to the butcher, moonshine shack and post office and it will kick you from session.  Ie.  Why they jump servers.

Also pretty sure They also have a dumb system in place that if a lower level player gets killed by a higher level player they spawn them farther away and turn them blue.

But like everything else in game it doesn't work right.

System been screwed up and abused since day 1.

My overall summary R* doesn't know how they want to position this game and everything is shrouded in the mystery of how it supposed to work vs how it actually works...is it GTO, is it something in-between...

 

I just let others take the first shot and respond as required.

 

Fair enough thanks.  Still seems crazy that the headlock doesn't give me any protection when I hit him.  I didn't draw a weapon, just punched him.  Hardly my fault he crumpled like a cheap suit.  Seems to me that the only way to avoid having someone press charges is actually to let the griefer kill you!!!

[Dissention]

46 minutes ago, SimonTemplar said:

Fair enough thanks.  Still seems crazy that the headlock doesn't give me any protection when I hit him.  I didn't draw a weapon, just punched him.  Hardly my fault he crumpled like a cheap suit.  Seems to me that the only way to avoid having someone press charges is actually to let the griefer kill you!!!

Just switch to and stay in defensive they got it set to the point where you are practically invisible to ranks higher than you and lowers see you as a light blue blip.  They also can't lasso you with their free reinforced lasso.

Having someone Pressing charges against you 1 or 2, 3 or 4 times has no effect.  You feed and Pat your horse and just ride away and hunt/fish it goes back down in 5 to 10 minutes.

Same thing I said in my original response, someone messes with me I just respond as required.  It rarely ever works out in their favor.  

I've never pressed charges on anyone.... It's all just a (broken) game, you can just switch servers (wait a couple minutes so they can't follow you) if they go on a griefer rage.   

 

 

[Kean_1]

6 hours ago, SimonTemplar said:

Thanks.  I wasn't in defensive mode, checked last night, so I would have been blue to him.  The odd thing is that he was able to press charges against me when he attacked me, though, and I wasn't given the option to press charges against him.  I was very clearly defending myself - I had to break out of a choke hold before I could hit him at all!

Well then, that's a big part of your problem if you're trying to mitigate issues with griefers. 

I would recommend checking your state when you enter a new session like I do and switch back to Defensive Mode if necessary. I also check after running missions that may automatically switch me into Offensive Mode just in case.

It will make it more difficult for them to do these things to you and even if they do kill you, I find it's faster just to let them do it so you can be on your way. .....then you can parley, press charges or whatever and you will also spawn further away allowing you to escape their reach much easier.  iME, they lose interest pretty quickly in that case.  

Griefers are looking for a response.  I don't give it to them and Defensive Mode really helps with that.

......and Im not even sure we can call them griefers in this case because when someone is in Offensive Mode while free-roaming it is essentially supposed to signal that you're open to these kinds of interactions with other players.

Sure, some aspects may not work quite right in the game but Defensive Mode really does make a huge difference to help mitigate griefing IME. ......better than Offensive Mode if you're looking to avoid this kind of thing.

[SimonTemplar]

54 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

Well then, that's a big part of your problem if you're trying to mitigate issues with griefers. 

I would recommend checking your state when you enter a new session like I do and switch back to Defensive Mode if necessary. I also check after running missions that may automatically switch me into Offensive Mode just in case.

It will make it more difficult for them to do these things to you and even if they do kill you, I find it's faster just to let them do it so you can be on your way. .....then you can parley, press charges or whatever and you will also spawn further away allowing you to escape their reach much easier.  iME, they lose interest pretty quickly in that case.  

Griefers are looking for a response.  I don't give it to them and Defensive Mode really helps with that.

......and Im not even sure we can call them griefers in this case because when someone is in Offensive Mode while free-roaming it is essentially supposed to signal that you're open to these kinds of interactions with other players.

Sure, some aspects may not work quite right in the game but Defensive Mode really does make a huge difference to help mitigate griefing IME. ......better than Offensive Mode if you're looking to avoid this kind of thing.

Sorry, I don't think you're really understanding me.  I don't have an issue with griefers (barely happens, and when it does it feels pretty realistic), so don't have a 'problem' as such.  I'm not trying to mitigate any issues.  And as I said earlier, I don't use defensive mode as I personally don't like the whole invisible thing, I'm certainly not complaining at someone attacking me and understand the dynamic.  

My question was much more specific - was it normal that he could attack me, I fight back, and he can press charges against me for my defence, but I cannot press charges against him for the original attack, which is what happened here, twice in quick succession.

It's fine, and I'll continue playing as I have been, and think that I have my answer on the pressing charges thing (it is blunt tool, tracking death rather than justice, so is what it is).

Thank you, all of you.  Happy trails!

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, SimonTemplar said:

Sorry, I don't think you're really understanding me.  I don't have an issue with griefers (barely happens, and when it does it feels pretty realistic), so don't have a 'problem' as such.  I'm not trying to mitigate any issues.  And as I said earlier, I don't use defensive mode as I personally don't like the whole invisible thing, I'm certainly not complaining at someone attacking me and understand the dynamic.  

My question was much more specific - was it normal that he could attack me, I fight back, and he can press charges against me for my defence, but I cannot press charges against him for the original attack, which is what happened here, twice in quick succession.

It's fine, and I'll continue playing as I have been, and think that I have my answer on the pressing charges thing (it is blunt tool, tracking death rather than justice, so is what it is).

Thank you, all of you.  Happy trails!

Ah, ok.

Yeah, well perhaps the whole "headlock" thing is a way to get around it as mentioned. 

Also, just to clarify, Defensive Mode doesn't make you invisible.  You can still see people on your radar that are in this mode but they simply appear as a faded blue dot rather than a distinct, blue one.  It's easy enough to see them IME / IMO although some say they have trouble with it.  Either way, not a bad deal if your intention is to avoid randoms.

I rarely have problems with griefers myself but a lot of that is simply due to avoiding those I feel will likely cause problems.  .....I know you know the drill already.  You can usually tell just by observing them but then again, there are situations where these folks learn to exploit like hanging out in areas where it kicks people out after missions, etc.  .....but again, I just don't feed into all that and it's usually a non-issue after a brief hassle.

The tools work but they can also be exploited to an extent.  The good news is that Defensive Mode is there if you find folks getting more annoying and it does help in that regard IMO / IME.  

[SimonTemplar]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:25 PM, Kean_1 said:

Ah, ok.

Yeah, well perhaps the whole "headlock" thing is a way to get around it as mentioned. 

Also, just to clarify, Defensive Mode doesn't make you invisible.  You can still see people on your radar that are in this mode but they simply appear as a faded blue dot rather than a distinct, blue one.  It's easy enough to see them IME / IMO although some say they have trouble with it.  Either way, not a bad deal if your intention is to avoid randoms.

I rarely have problems with griefers myself but a lot of that is simply due to avoiding those I feel will likely cause problems.  .....I know you know the drill already.  You can usually tell just by observing them but then again, there are situations where these folks learn to exploit like hanging out in areas where it kicks people out after missions, etc.  .....but again, I just don't feed into all that and it's usually a non-issue after a brief hassle.

The tools work but they can also be exploited to an extent.  The good news is that Defensive Mode is there if you find folks getting more annoying and it does help in that regard IMO / IME.  

Agreed.  I understand defensive and just don't like it.  I think the chap just found a workaround effectively - basically the system is too weighted towards avoiding death.  Players can mess with one another and the game forgives them as long as no one dies.  I need to work on my non-lethal responses (although all I did was punch him and he was dead, which is a bit extreme, lasso from now on I guess).  The game didn't mind his headlock, or his shooting at me as he missed.  I don't have a any real issue with griefers (and the odd one can be fun, now that I'm tooled up enough to be able to defend myself).  It was just the oik pressing charges which irked me!!  But thank you for your thoughts.

[Necromancie]

What happens when you press charges.

Started 4/01/20 day of snow storm.

A day or two later (A dumbass) shot and killed me I saw Press Charges then went on my way. Not knowing what it does but he left me be.

Havent really had a problem, mostly on missions but that comes with territory.

[Kean_1]

5 hours ago, Necromancie said:

What happens when you press charges.

Started 4/01/20 day of snow storm.

A day or two later (A dumbass) shot and killed me I saw Press Charges then went on my way. Not knowing what it does but he left me be.

Havent really had a problem, mostly on missions but that comes with territory.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread with the full description of how all this is supposed to work but here's the bit about that specifically:

Press Charges: When a lower Hostility player is killed without retaliating they will have an option to “Press Charges” during the respawn period, which will enforce an increase on their attacker’s Hostility and Bounty value. Press Charges is not available if you are a high Hostility player or marked as an enemy to the player who killed you.