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Old Western Firearms


EjectedCasings
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Recently, I've started shooting my little Ruger Single Six again. Going out into the hills with my little Marlin .22 and six shooter is quite fun.

However, not the most extensive or historical collection. Probably the Blackhawk I have is closest to the Colt SAA...

So what about yours? Any Historical Firearms?

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My family had a test to get your first gun.  If you could lift and shoot dad's old Winchester WCF  model 1894 25-35 (made 1918 if memory serves) with the octagon barrel, you were ready for your own gun.  That beast is heavy!  i had to wait till i was 8 to get my first gun.  I say my first gun which really means we got to pick from Dad's rifles which one we would hunt with, minus what my brother picked before me.  I chose my dad's .303 British.  That was my hunting rifle from age 10 until 16 when i blew it up.  The infamous case sizing issue the .303 suffered.  I shot a reload i had done earlier that day and it split. 

I don't own any old west firearms.  I have a few replica's in my collection if that counts :P

The family has a couple Old West guns, my brother inherited my great grandfather's Springfield Model 1873 45-70.  Even got a box of paper cartridge shells with it.  They're worthless now but really cool, if your a history buff like me maybe.  

Dad has a black powder rifle that as far as we can tell from his research is from 1840s.  My uncle works for the BLM and found it out on a rock formation way out in the wild somewhere.  was all rusted and the stock was pitted and weathered from hell.  Who knows how many years it sat on that rock.  Dad refinished it and it's a beautiful gun now. He was able to save the barrel, had to take it to a gunsmith to get it bored again though, stock was trashed, but we found a seller of the Curly Maple the original stock was made from.  I think i spent as much time helping him hand sand that stock as i did on my black powder rifle.  Stock is smooth as glass now, just beautiful.  I'll have to take a picture of it when i visit them this weekend.

My collection - 

Black powder

  • 1861 Colt Navy revolver - .36 replica black powder
  • 1848 Colt Police revolver - .32 Replica black powder
  • CVA .50 cal. black powder rifle (kit gun i made when i was 13, just realized i've had this gun for 30+ years now)

Rifles

  • Winchester Model 60A .22 long rifle (inherited from my grandpa, made in 1943)
  • Howa Hogue GamePro custom .270 Winchester (won at a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation banquet, custom finish and engraving for the RMEF)
  • Remington 700 Synthetic in .308 w/Nikko Sterling GameKing scope (love that scope, inexpensive but solid after hundreds of rounds, same scope on my .270)
  • Remington 10/22 .22 cal.  (my fun gun)
  • PSA AR15 in .223/5.56 (my new fun gun.  just got this one 2 weeks ago, haven't had a chance to shoot it yet)

Handguns

  • S&W 586 .357 Revolver (high School graduation gift)
  • Taurus TCP 738 .380 (my first pistol, i hate this one, too small for my hands, probably end up selling it soon)
  • Taurus G2c 9mm
  • Ruger Blackhawk .357

Got 2 more guns i need to finish my collection.  A shotgun so i have 1 of everything, and i've always wanted a Colt 1911.   Not in a rush on the shotgun, I'll get my dad's eventually.  Colts i want are spendy (i won't buy used unless it's from a trusted source, like family or my shooting buddies) so that one may take a while yet.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kormath said:

A shotgun so i have 1 of everything, and i've always wanted a Colt 1911. 

There's a 1911 that my dad has, I believe it's a Tenring Custom 1911. It's quite nice, but he doesn't really shoot .45 all that often. As of right now, I'm currently planning on building a nice AR.

Edited by EjectedCasings
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1 minute ago, EjectedCasings said:

There's a 1911 that my dad has, I believe it's a Tenring Custom 1911. It's quite nice, but he doesn't really shoot .45 all that often.

i will when i get one.  My brother has 2, a special commerative edition his wife got him as an aniversary gift, then he bought another he could go shoot, and he has the reloading dies for it so i'll just steal those from him and be set ;) 

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I do love a 1911.  I have a Springfield MC Operator myself.  Sweet shooter although I always intended to ditch the wrap-around Pachmayer grip with VZs like the latest model has.

....again, not a picture of mine but the exact same one:

Image result for px9105mlp

 

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14 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

I do love a 1911.  I have a Springfield MC Operator myself.  Sweet shooter although I always intended to ditch the wrap-around Pachmayer grip with VZs like the latest model has.

....again, not a picture of mine but the exact same one:

Image result for px9105mlp

 

That's a nice one. 

S&W was the first handgun I owned so i've been looking at their E series

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/sw1911-e-series

But then also i love my Taurus 9mm so i've been debating between the S&W and the Taurus.  Taurus has better prices and i really like the black and stainless look.

image.png.5240a25e1a884fe04a9e7d8303596ea1.png

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27 minutes ago, Kormath said:

That's a nice one. 

S&W was the first handgun I owned so i've been looking at their E series

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/sw1911-e-series

But then also i love my Taurus 9mm so i've been debating between the S&W and the Taurus.  Taurus has better prices and i really like the black and stainless look.

A Ruger 10/22 was my first gun I bought myself.  

I like S&W but one thing that turns me off on their 1911 (and other like it) is the external ejector.  Has nothing to do with functionality, just never looked right on a 1911 to me.  Guess some say the same about a rail though.  ;)

The PT1911 is certainly an inexpensive entry in the 1911 market.   .....about half the price of the SW1911 and about 1/3 the price of what I paid for my Springer (although there are other models they offer for less).  Between the two I might be tempted to go with S&W because of the refinement and my personal experience with the brand.  

Have you checked out RIA?  Of the entry level 1911s they seem to have a good following.  

 

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6 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

Have you checked out RIA?  Of the entry level 1911s they seem to have a good following.  

I haven't.  I tend to stick with names i know and trust for my toys of death.

I went out on a limb for my PSA AR15, but only cause my brother has a few of them in various calibers.  He got a .308 a few weeks before i ordered my .223.  His .308 kicks about as much as i'd expect this .223 to kick.  His 6 yr old shot it from their deck, using a bipod on the railing in standing position.  he fired it 3 times and wanted to shoot it more.  If that would have been my Remington .308 my nephew would have been imprinted in the wall about 10 ft behind him lol.

I'll have to look at RIA, never heard of them before.

Just looked at RIA.  same prices as Taurus, and I love the look of the grips on their pistols.  Have to see if the FFL here can order one for me, if not i think i'll go with Taurus for the price.

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4 minutes ago, Kormath said:

I haven't.  I tend to stick with names i know and trust for my toys of death.

I went out on a limb for my PSA AR15, but only cause my brother has a few of them in various calibers.  He got a .308 a few weeks before i ordered my .223.  His .308 kicks about as much as i'd expect this .223 to kick.  His 6 yr old shot it from their deck, using a bipod on the railing in standing position.  he fired it 3 times and wanted to shoot it more.  If that would have been my Remington .308 my nephew would have been imprinted in the wall about 10 ft behind him lol.

I'll have to look at RIA, never heard of them before.

Yeah, I can imagine that Remington leaves a lot of the recoil for your shoulder to absorb.  :)  

I don't hunt but I had my eye on a 700 at one point.  .....but then I always really wanted an M1A and given I'll probably now only ever buy one more rifle, that would be it (.308 Win). Most likely the Scout model which is a good compromise with the 18" barrel or the standard version with the 24".  The SOCOM 16 is just a little too out of touch with the original look of the gun for me.  

I also like to stick with names I either have good personal experiences with or have a reputation for quality / reliability.  When I was shopping for a 1911 I narrowed it down to Kimber TLE/RLII and Springfield MC Op.  What won me over to a Springer was the warranty and an arguably better reputation.   Kimber had a 1 yr warranty IIRC while Springfield offers one for a lifetime.  .....and their custom shop is well respected and has a really good rep.   The Kimber was also $200 more although I simply couldn't see anything that justified the mark up. 

The reason I mentioned RIA is due to the number of owners I used to hear talk about them on the 1911 forums I would frequent.  ......I don't recall hearing much about the PT1911 but then again, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  Still, there are folks will turn their noses up to either of those but I'm sure that's also due in part to their price rather actual experience with them.  Obviously, I wouldn't expect a $500 1911 to feel as refined or maybe even as dependable as a comparable $800 - $1000+ 1911 but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be unreliable.   Even so, with some custom work, any potential issues could likely be sorted and you might still be below the cost of the more expensive options.  

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RIA has good reviews,  i like the grips, really like the grips.  was looking last night to see if i can get similar for my taurus G2c lol

Unless i drive a couple hours to the "city" here we're stuck with what the local FFL can order, that's one reason i've been getting Taurus, he gets a great deal on them, and since we use him to order all the guns for our banquets (usually 14 give or take) he cuts me and the other committee members a good price.

You're mention of the M1A reminded me of the .303 British.

I bought a damaged .303 British from a pawn shop for my father after i blew his .303 up with a reloaded round.  The .303 has a shoulder gap issue with 90% of the rounds you buy, if you reload, like we do, after the first shot the brass has a high possibility of separating just above the rim, at the bottom of the powder chamber as there's a couple millimeters of space between the shoulder and the barrel.  When this happened while i was shooting the rifle it blew the firing pin back into my cheek,  I had an imprint of it for a week or so.  

So I bought a "parts gun" for dad to use to fix his.  Stock on the parts gun i got was cracked, pawn shop sold it to me for dirt cheap.  Dad used the parts from it to fix his rifle, then went online and found the parts needed to fix up the "parts gun".  he gave me the "parts gun" after he fixed both rifles, it's still at my parents house.  Totally forgot about that one on my list.

I've never been a big fan of the M1A,  i do love the M1 carbine though,  that's my next rifle :)

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As for me, I've got a 24" Super Match M1A. I really love it. It can drive nails for you at 300 yards with irons if you've got some patience. 😁 Also have an M1 Carbine (we had trouble dating it) and a Korean War era Garand that's just loads of fun to shoot. All are really good rifles (well, not the Carbine, that's not a rifle hehe...). I have always loved those old Walnut-clad firearms. My main beef with them is that they are a little on the weighty side, but that's not a big problem... They all work well and I haven't had any major difficulties with them throughout the time I have owned them 😉

Edited by EjectedCasings
Reworded some stuff
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Nice!  Those super match rifles aren't cheap.  

My nephew bought a Scout before I did.  .....the little punk.  ;)  He promised to take me shooting with it though.  :)  

Had the chance to buy a Garand many years ago for cheap.  .....not hard to find back then.  I should have just made the purchase but we all know how that goes.

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On 4/25/2019 at 11:28 AM, Kean_1 said:

Nice!  Those super match rifles aren't cheap.  

My nephew bought a Scout before I did.  .....the little punk.  ;)  He promised to take me shooting with it though.  :)  

Had the chance to buy a Garand many years ago for cheap.  .....not hard to find back then.  I should have just made the purchase but we all know how that goes.

i was torn between the Garand and carbine for years.  I love the Garand as it's a (most commonly) .30-06 round, a bit longer and heavier than the carbine.  And that ping sound when the clip is empty is just killer.  Carbine is smaller, lighter, shoots a smaller shell, more like a .357, and can use up to a 30 round mag.  

the Carbine was my must have before i got my AR15.  now that i have it i'm rethinking this.  I don't need 2 fun guns, but then again i already have 2 big game rifles for anything i want to hunt up to a buffalo.  So maybe i do need 2 fun guns (fun guns = shooting range guns to just go out and have fun blasting things with) so maybe I will stick with the Carbine first.

damn, now i have to make a choice again lol

Edited by Kormath
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So i was looking at shotguns online after posting Friday, and found a hell of a deal.  The local Sportsman's Warehouse had a shotgun on sale for $99.99 20 ga.  which is what i wanted, since i'll only be using it for pheasants and doves, maybe ducks.  Never heard for the brand Pardner's shotgun it was labelled.  Did a quick google search, turns out Pardner is made by H&R, who are owned by Remington.  So i called my brother, asked him what he knew about them.  Remington is a good name, no issues there, but an affiliation maybe be iffy, and an affiliation that is in China is really iffy.  My go to for guns is my brother, he's an avid gun nut, he's probably forgotten more than i'll ever know about guns.  Kinda his wheel house though, he's a firearms instructor for law enforcement agencies around here.  

So i call him ask him about these Pardner shotguns and he says he's owned 2.  loved them both, traded them in to upgrade for better though, but they're a damn fine starter shotgun.  I ordered the shotgun online, picked it up saturday morning.  Now i have 2 guns i have to go shoot :)

Online picture of the shotgun i just bought.

image.png.8283acbdec8733dd9f7c4a7179fb444c.png

Simple, no frills, just pump point and shoot.  perfect for what i'm going to use it for, and as rarely as i'll use it i didn't want to spend a ton.  So i'm super happy with this one.  a review of the 12 ga version sums it up very well -

Quote

Anyone who is looking for class and style is advised to go elsewhere. Those seeking a robust, quality-built shotgun have come to the right place.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/ralph/gun-review-hr-1871-pardner-pump-protector-12-gauge/

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Yeah, can't say I've ever heard of that maker either before now.  Sounds like it would fit the bill though.

I would still like a 12ga and figured I would settle on an 870 Express, Winchester Defender or the Mossberg 590(?).  There are others too I'm sure that I would start mulling over if I started doing to the research when/if I decide to buy.  Need a bigger safe and a better location for it before I do that though.

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20 hours ago, Parzival said:

Remington QC has actually gone downhill quite a bit in the past several years.

THey all have their ups and downs.  Remington has been one of the top names for decades.

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On 5/2/2019 at 1:40 PM, Kean_1 said:

.......yeah, Kormath explained all that in his reply.  I was just saying (like him) I never heard of Pardner either until he mentioned it.

Well, he mentioned the name H&R. I just thought I'd elaborate a bit on who they are, that's all.

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On 5/4/2019 at 5:18 PM, Parzival said:

Well, he mentioned the name H&R. I just thought I'd elaborate a bit on who they are, that's all.

Actually what i said was -

On 4/30/2019 at 3:09 PM, Kormath said:

Never heard for the brand Pardner's shotgun it was labelled.

THen i said -

On 4/30/2019 at 3:09 PM, Kormath said:

Did a quick google search, turns out Pardner is made by H&R, who are owned by Remington.

to which you said -

On 5/2/2019 at 1:42 PM, Parzival said:

Remington QC has actually gone downhill quite a bit in the past several years.

and then i said 

 

On 5/3/2019 at 10:19 AM, Kormath said:

THey all have their ups and downs.  Remington has been one of the top names for decades.

and for fun cause i'm getting bored of all these quotes :P

3rd party marketing firm for for the top 5 firearm brands in the world -

  1. Smith & Wesson
  2. Remington
  3. Sturm, Ruger & Co.
  4. Sig Saur
  5. Heckler and Koch

Or if you'd rather go by Ranker -total bullsh*t ranks btw, no study done, just user input, and i think these are handgun ranks, not all firearms

  1. S&W
  2. H&K
  3. Sig
  4. Colt
  5. Springfield
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Well, USSOCOM had recently adopted the Remington MSR as their Precision Sniper Rifle and promptly dropped the entire platform after only receiving the first shipment of rifles due to accuracy being piss poor compared to the test units. For the average joe, Remington might be fine, but I tend to judge quality on the platform being used hard. Still, if I were in the market for a shotgun, I'd favor Mossberg, or if I had cash to splurge a Benelli, right now. But each to their own. If you're confident in a Remington, I hope it serves you long and well. 😊

On the topic of old west firearms, am I the only one bothered by the fact that both RDR and RDR2 treat the Henry repeater as an upgrade over the Winchester? IRL, it was very much the opposite with the first prototype Winchester repeater being a modified Henry. 😕

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On 5/14/2019 at 6:17 AM, Parzival said:

On the topic of old west firearms, am I the only one bothered by the fact that both RDR and RDR2 treat the Henry repeater as an upgrade over the Winchester? IRL, it was very much the opposite with the first prototype Winchester repeater being a modified Henry.

Not quite.

Little history lesson :)

Walter Hunt made the prototype for the Repeating Rifle.  Only a handful were made, and the only one known to have survived is now in the Firearms Museum in Cody Wyoming (If you're a gun lover like I am and haven't been there, it's a location to put on your bucket list.  Place is totally awesome and i can get lost in there for hours on end). 

The patents of that prototype were purchased by and improved on by Robbins & Lawrence Company in 1849, by Lewis Jennings. Horace Smith (the Smith of S&W) was hired to assist Jennings and they patented the Jennings-Smith in 1851 or 1852, but not many of those rifles were made.

These early repeaters used Rocket Ball ammo.  Rocket Balls were elongated slugs basically, that had a hole drilled in the bottom about halfway up the slug.  The hole was filled with gunpowder and typically capped with a thin piece of cork.  The cork had a small hole in it to keep the powder from draining, and to allow for ignition. 

Courtland Palmer bought the patents to the Jennings-Smith design, and then joined with Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson (who eventually joined to make S&W) to improve the rifle, and redesign the ammo.  Thus the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company was born, and the very first repeating rifle with cartridge ammo was built and sold to the public.  This was, in part, made possible by an investor - Oliver Winchester - in 1855.  the next year Winchester took ownership of the Volcanic Arms, moved it to New Haven, Connecticut and renamed it New Haven Arms.  The following year, 1857, Tyler Henry was hired, and over the next few years, experimented with the cartridge ammo and created the rimfire cartridge.  He built a modified Volcanic Rifle to use this ammo, the Henry 1860.  

Over the next few years the New Haven Arms was restructured and became Winchester Repeating Arms, or Winchester as we know it now. and their first rifle was the Model 1866.  The 1866 was then remodified to replace the brass/bronze frame like the Henry used, with iron and steel, making it lighter and the action faster and smoother.  This is the Model 1873.

Edited by Kormath
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.....then there's the whole history of cartridges and the changes / advancements being made during that time.  Stuff I'm familiar with but rarely could remember off the top of my head like you.  .....I'm impressed.

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13 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

.....then there's the whole history of cartridges and the changes / advancements being made during that time.  Stuff I'm familiar with but rarely could remember off the top of my head like you.  .....I'm impressed.

i knew the progression of the rifle, from the prototype to the Winchester 94, but not the exact dates so i had to cheat and look those up. :)  History is a passion of mine, and guns and the wild west are way up on the interest list.  

If you get a chance you gotta go see that Firearms museum,  i go there every few years when i visit my uncle and get lost for hours.  

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1 hour ago, Kormath said:

i knew the progression of the rifle, from the prototype to the Winchester 94, but not the exact dates so i had to cheat and look those up. :)  History is a passion of mine, and guns and the wild west are way up on the interest list.  

If you get a chance you gotta go see that Firearms museum,  i go there every few years when i visit my uncle and get lost for hours.  

Doubt I'll ever find myself up in Cody, Wyoming but if I am, I'll check it out.

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  • 5 months later...

When I lived in Arizona, I spent the 10 years carrying a model 1875 Remington in 45 Colt (Uberti calls it the "outlaw") still fond of it, but then a 1858 conversion in 45 Colt came my way a couple years ago, full six rounds, loading gate, and all. The '75 is a little more practical, but I just love that '58. (Think of the gun "Angel Eyes" carried in TGTB&TU) Got a Henry rifle and a mare's leg in the same caliber paired with it, but going to pick up a '92 saddle carbine when shinier times come around. Also in discussions with the wife about moving back to AZ now that I'm retired. If we do, will go back to every day carry. For concealed carry, I have an original S&W .32 lemon squeezer. Not a huge caliber, but would get the job done.

58 Conversion.jpg

32 lemon squeezer.jpg

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:31 AM, Kean_1 said:

Doubt I'll ever find myself up in Cody, Wyoming but if I am, I'll check it out.

If you love old guns and the Old West, you will be doing yourself a great service if you do stop in. It has to be seen to be believed.

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