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Shooting mechanics / gunplay


VersaSty1e
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First. Red Dead 1. Top 5 game of my all time list EVER.

But.

Played so many games since. Especially Destiny the last few years. GoW etc

Good grief the gun play and combat is atrocious. Alright it's basica and average. But nothing spectacular. How do they have all this money and can't improve the shooting mechanics at all? That's my ONLY gripe. But it's a big one.

It feels stiff like I'm battling the character. Not like he is an extension of my arm. I don't understand. The Kotaku review was the only to mention this. It's like stuck in last gen shooting mechanics. Do you guys agree? Am I missing something. Or DO you guys think this is on purpose? Like the view doesn't even shift. I don't know I feel like there is so much more they could of done with it. A game centered around shooting. It feels like GTA V which is to say still mediocre. I expected more. Oh well. Back to the story.

 

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1 hour ago, VersaSty1e said:

First. Red Dead 1. Top 5 game of my all time list EVER.

 But.

Played so many games since. Especially Destiny the last few years. GoW etc

Good grief the gun play and combat is atrocious. Alright it's basica and average. But nothing spectacular. How do they have all this money and can't improve the shooting mechanics at all? That's my ONLY gripe. But it's a big one.

It feels stiff like I'm battling the character. Not like he is an extension of my arm. I don't understand. The Kotaku review was the only to mention this. It's like stuck in last gen shooting mechanics. Do you guys agree? Am I missing something. Or DO you guys think this is on purpose? Like the view doesn't even shift. I don't know I feel like there is so much more they could of done with it. A game centered around shooting. It feels like GTA V which is to say still mediocre. I expected more. Oh well. Back to the story.

  

I honestly like the shooting mechanics. The sway of the weapon is from stamina and moving around just like in real life, you wouldn't have an arm in real life that solidly still... I think the mechanics is fine... nothing super crazy different, but if it ain't broke, why fix it? 

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Third party shooters always feel like this, a bit cumbersome and separated, it's just a quirk of third person mode. Until I've spent some serious time in first person I'm going to reserve judgement. 

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4 minutes ago, Benjo said:

Third party shooters always feel like this, a bit cumbersome and separated, it's just a quirk of third person mode. Until I've spent some serious time in first person I'm going to reserve judgement. 

I love the 3rd person shooting, seems good to me!

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Protecting the guy from wolves.  So I'm riding behind the latino guy trying protect him and there's a couple of issues.  One is the gun doesn't always fire even though there's ammo in it.  The second is, there was a rounded hillock as we're going down the mountain and my horse sort of tramlined up it and started running in a tight circle and I couldn't steer the horse out of it.  I dismounted and the horse kept running round  and round in a tight circle until the wolves killed the guy.

 

On a more general point, the combat with guns is pure last century gaming.  I don't know if that's meant to be in keeping with the game itself or just pants deployment but it's reminding me of what I disliked most about GTA V.  I played that for many an hour and never really got to grips with the shooting at all and felt like I was fighting the game more than the enemies.

 

Edited by Jota
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R* produces TPV games that tend to rely heavily on auto aim.  Heck, they even have the "dead eye" mechanic that essentially does the shooting for you.  A TPV game like Ghost Recon Wildlands on the other hand is a totally different experience as it should be given it's a tactical shooter.  I have no problem playing that game without any aim assist.  .....R* games are a different story.

btw, they've given you quite a bit of control over the sensitivity of the settings, the auto-aim, etc. so it may pay to spend some time tweaking those.  

In a any case, I get what the OP means but it's not an issue for me.   ......at least in R* games.   It's just a different experience.

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5 hours ago, Jota said:

One is the gun doesn't always fire even though there's ammo in it. 

Sounds accurate to the guns in that period... I could understand that getting annoying, but it is realistic.

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1 hour ago, Kean_1 said:

R* produces TPV games that tend to rely heavily on auto aim.  Heck, they even have the "dead eye" mechanic that essentially does the shooting for you.  A TPV game like Ghost Recon Wildlands on the other hand is a totally different experience as it should be given it's a tactical shooter.  I have no problem playing that game without any aim assist.  .....R* games are a different story.

btw, they've given you quite a bit of control over the sensitivity of the settings, the auto-aim, etc. so it may pay to spend some time tweaking those.  

In a any case, I get what the OP means but it's not an issue for me.   ......at least in R* games.   It's just a different experience.

Yes I see that. Anyway. Still a fine AMAZING game. Just was hoping they'd improve that system. There's so many ways to easily improve it. Just seems out of place in an otherwise fluid showing.

It turns most shootouts into not much more than a pop up shooting gallery. ANd exactly as above I have to do so that way, as I'm fighing my own dude more than any enemy. It's like I'm trying to move someone else's arm. Idk above talking about realistic??? It's animation based, which I think they chose because it looks real. But it does not react real. I can't quickly aim and unload. It's super cumbersome. 

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5 minutes ago, VersaSty1e said:

Idk above talking about realistic???

Referring to guns not being entirely reliable back then (bullets not always firing). I can't say anything about the shooting itself, I haven't gotten home to play yet (or installed it).

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2 minutes ago, Truth said:

Referring to guns not being entirely reliable back then (bullets not always firing). I can't say anything about the shooting itself, I haven't gotten home to play yet (or installed it).

No not that. The guy who stated it's realistic to not be able to move your arm and aim intuitively and fluidly while standing still. Its like it has understeer and oversteer :)))) lol it's just like GTA V which is just like GTA 3 for the most part. And it's just bad. 

3rd person isn't an excuse. MGSV , Division, Ghost, I mean even the throwing and character control in GoW. I get realistic but my arm should feel like my own. Not some animation I'm trying to control. It's like 10lb weights attached. Weighted sure but in the wrong places & highly inconsistent. As a review stated I think its going for looking real rather than feeling real. Which is why we have to fight animations. 

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6 minutes ago, VersaSty1e said:

No not that.

Ah, my mistake. If I'm understanding you correctly, that doesn't sound good. Hopefully it's one of those things that gets better/easier as you progress.

Can't wait to try it out myself! Today is dragging...

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1 hour ago, Truth said:

Sounds accurate to the guns in that period... I could understand that getting annoying, but it is realistic.

On the repeater rifle and double action revolvers, you have to pull the trigger twice: once to cycle the round into the chamber, and once again to fire.

Brings a whole new meaning to "double tap".

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Just now, BropolloCreed79 said:

On the repeater rifle and double action revolvers, you have to pull the trigger twice: once to cycle the round into the chamber, and once again to fire.

Brings a whole new meaning to "double tap".

****.

****?

No more swearing...

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Just now, BropolloCreed79 said:

Realism.  Once you figure it out, it helps with timing your shots and is quite enjoyable.

Probably won't be too bad for me now that I think about it. I recently played through the first halo mainly using the pistol. My trigger finger got a good workout!

Just have to get used to it. I feel like I played another game that did it that way...

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40 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

Realism.  Once you figure it out, it helps with timing your shots and is quite enjoyable.

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure some of the system out of storing items, shooting, movement to cover, etc. but at this point, I can see it's just a matter of me getting into the swing of it.  It's been enjoyable so far.

I did have a few moments during the tutorial when I couldn't fire but it was either due to the animation / transition not allowing me to or my own ignorance on how the mechanic worked.  Again, I just have to get into the groove which I will this afternoon / evening.

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1 hour ago, VersaSty1e said:

Yes I see that. Anyway. Still a fine AMAZING game. Just was hoping they'd improve that system. There's so many ways to easily improve it. Just seems out of place in an otherwise fluid showing.

It turns most shootouts into not much more than a pop up shooting gallery. ANd exactly as above I have to do so that way, as I'm fighing my own dude more than any enemy. It's like I'm trying to move someone else's arm. Idk above talking about realistic??? It's animation based, which I think they chose because it looks real. But it does not react real. I can't quickly aim and unload. It's super cumbersome. 

I enjoy tactical shooters and the way other TPV games like MGSV, GRW, etc. work.  I like the idea of the transition to ADS from the TPV.  I like the feel of games where I can actually turn off auto aim and still be accurate just by myself.  

The style R* has stuck with obviously works for them and their fans.  It relies heavily on auto aim and the cover system.  Having said that, I'm still messing with the sensitivity, acceleration and auto aim options in RDR2 but it does feel better (to me) than GTAV did.  I may even play with the FPV to see how that feels after a while.

...speaking of which, I wonder if RDR2 has the same switch option to TPV that GTAV did when you go into cover from FPV?

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15 hours ago, VersaSty1e said:

First. Red Dead 1. Top 5 game of my all time list EVER.

But.

Played so many games since. Especially Destiny the last few years. GoW etc

Good grief the gun play and combat is atrocious. Alright it's basica and average. But nothing spectacular. How do they have all this money and can't improve the shooting mechanics at all? That's my ONLY gripe. But it's a big one.

It feels stiff like I'm battling the character. Not like he is an extension of my arm. I don't understand. The Kotaku review was the only to mention this. It's like stuck in last gen shooting mechanics. Do you guys agree? Am I missing something. Or DO you guys think this is on purpose? Like the view doesn't even shift. I don't know I feel like there is so much more they could of done with it. A game centered around shooting. It feels like GTA V which is to say still mediocre. I expected more. Oh well. Back to the story.

 

I have to agree, I'm only a few hours in and the one thing I would say is gunfights seem cumbersome at time. I think I need to spend more time in the game. It kind of left me wondering what Red Dead Online will be like though.

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On 10/25/2018 at 11:01 PM, VersaSty1e said:

First. Red Dead 1. Top 5 game of my all time list EVER.

But.

Played so many games since. Especially Destiny the last few years. GoW etc

Good grief the gun play and combat is atrocious. Alright it's basica and average. But nothing spectacular. How do they have all this money and can't improve the shooting mechanics at all? That's my ONLY gripe. But it's a big one.

It feels stiff like I'm battling the character. Not like he is an extension of my arm. I don't understand. The Kotaku review was the only to mention this. It's like stuck in last gen shooting mechanics. Do you guys agree? Am I missing something. Or DO you guys think this is on purpose? Like the view doesn't even shift. I don't know I feel like there is so much more they could of done with it. A game centered around shooting. It feels like GTA V which is to say still mediocre. I expected more. Oh well. Back to the story.

 

After The Division, Destiny 1 & 2, Borderlands series - this really feels like a step back of a decade+ in shooter controls . . .

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2 minutes ago, Slim Creeper said:

After The Division, Destiny 1 & 2, Borderlands series - this really feels like a step back of a decade+ in shooter controls . . .

 

On 10/27/2018 at 3:18 AM, Lonestar said:

I have to agree, I'm only a few hours in and the one thing I would say is gunfights seem cumbersome at time. I think I need to spend more time in the game. It kind of left me wondering what Red Dead Online will be like though.

Yeah it feels like they're still using the exact engine they've used since GTA 4. The bolt action rifle is terrible - most of the time I hit the trigger to shoot and he just cocks the gun instead. 

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2 hours ago, Benjo said:

 

 Yeah it feels like they're still using the exact engine they've used since GTA 4. The bolt action rifle is terrible - most of the time I hit the trigger to shoot and he just ***** the gun instead. 

Yeah hopefully their isn't to much weapon sway when your Online, that would be beyond annoying. Rockstar is using the same engine they always used. Not broken, why fix it? The RAGE engine has improved big time, and it's capabilities. 

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Just now, debbo89 said:

It took me a while to get used to it, not just gunplay but just the way that Arthur moved. He's so slow! It was really noticeable in the few hours but now i've played a bit more it doesn't feel so bad. 

Yeah, the way he moves is a little slow and has a delay, I've noticed delays also when doing actions such as, picking up people, tying people up, sitting down, and basic mechanics like that, they have a huge delay and it kind of aggravates me.  

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3 minutes ago, DylBandit said:

Yeah, the way he moves is a little slow and has a delay, I've noticed delays also when doing actions such as, picking up people, tying people up, sitting down, and basic mechanics like that, they have a huge delay and it kind of aggravates me.  

I have noticed this to...I hope they can tighten things up a bit in future updates?

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