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To be clear, what you wrote, in this thread, is a post. I can delete it if you like. 😎

No.

......and no offense but there again are the broad strokes that are used to paint a picture of those who voice their concerns with griefing. .....sprinkled with a helping of dismissiveness. I can't speak for others but if you ask me what I ever wanted from Free Roam? .....balance. I'm ok with the PvP element but I was not ok with the way the gameplay was balanced. Personally, I think the latest changes in the last update are a step in the right direction. .....perhaps not without flaws but a good step nonetheless. The insinuation that folks should go find something else to play if they don't like the game is all well and good but when R* is specifically asking people for their feedback to help develop RDO into the game they would like it to be, folks shouldn't blame them for providing it. Nor should they blame them when R* listens and tries to do something about it (IMO) like they have with the latest update. If it wasn't for people submitting their feedback to R* about griefing, there would have been no change. I get some folks would be ok with that but then there are those who would not. .....quite a few according to R*. What's funny is that you mention that these people shouldn't be taking the game too serious and here we are in a thread created to argue the term "griefer" being used too much for some people's taste. I dunno, you tell me.

I see folks say this a lot, here and other places, and I maintain the position that giving everyone a toggle (with a cool down) does nothing to diminish that enjoyment if the status is not flagged on the map or HUD, but kept private. If anything, I could argue that it enhances this "excitement" and adds a layer of strategy and complexity to the game. Literally the only downside is that Griefers will have to actually put in some effort to grief. Cheap, easy thrills are their stock in trade, and eliminating their main avenue of aggrieving would be a step in the right direction for all parties.

As if we really needed another discussion regarding the choice of terminology used in what some people (a lot of people) consider a problem in this game. Its a moot point that has nothing to do with the root of the argument except to maybe try and legitimize the practice. This isn't about semantics. It's really about a disagreement on how indiscriminate killing of others this game should be handled. ....or not. Btw, the whole idea of bringing up kills during missions that invite players to participate as aggressors is diversionary. Most folks around here describing their issues with griefing are not talking about kills during missions. I know I'm not. Either way, even R* describes indiscriminate killing as an act of griefing and they themselves use the term "griefers" to describe those who do it. That s good enough for me.

Yeah I’m a sucker for movie scores also. Heres my favourite this plays in my head whenever I’m in Tall Trees.

Which is why I always roll a Barbarian (Booyah the Barbarian, if you must know). Because if anyone can RP a filthy savage, it's me.

Maps have always been relatively rare drops for me from gang hideouts and I've cleared a ton of them. IME, there is nothing in the gameplay after the update to make me suspect that mechanic has changed.

You're welcome to add your input but the thread will remain. As much as I don't agree with some of the viewpoints some have shared here including the OP, that isn't a valid reason to close the thread. ....wouldn't you think one of us would have done it already if there was? Even through the disagreements in this discussion, folks are still remaining civil. If something is breaking the forum rules we would encourage you to report it. If something or someone is simply rubbing the wrong way you have the option to pass over the thread, the post and/or use the ignore feature if it's a particular member you no longer wish to view input from. btw, welcome to the forums. I think you will find most here quite welcoming and generally courteous to one another. .....even through our disagreements over topics.

Ok, that makes more sense....lol.. I couldn't imagine you just now playing online for the first time. Yea, telling people you grind for fun will get you more than a a few stares.

Exactly my point. Those that can handle this kind of action will get all they want and those that are just cheap shots will get their asses handed to them. I find that most players that are really good at this sort of thing are usually not the ones doing the cheap shot harassing. Mind you not all but most I believe. So like in real life there are consequences for what you do. And for those that can handle it, well they have something to do besides shoot me. Problem solved.

No, I've played online games for many years. I'm part of a large community of gamers that have played online together since Xbox Live came out. This is the first game I've played like this where I did not initially understand what the purpose was. I just jumped in and started figuring stuff out. It was not clear to me why I was "grinding" but I did so (that sounds wrong! LOL). The essence of the game, for me, started to reveal itself as I began to rank up. I really enjoy RDR2 because of the western feel. That's where the GTA game loses me.

I am not at all suggesting there is a better way to play this game. It was an honest question that I had in an attempt to understand the reasons why people level up. For me, this is the first game of this type I've played. I had no interest in GTA and really know nothing about it. I've questioned myself as to what the purpose of this online stuff was for me...trying to make sense of how I play, why I play and developing a strategy. For myself, I have come to the belief that this is a game of survival....and survival is not all about success and happiness. And heck yeah....I not only dress up my weapons...but I also play dress up with my Ken!!! My remark was not to disparage anyone who does so, it was more tongue and cheek because I like it. I enjoy that facet of the game! Why survive if you can't do it in style! LOL I am certainly not a run and gunner. I rarely shoot first and I don't go looking for trouble. If trouble starts...I will certainly engage and would enjoy it to the fullest! I do not bother others who want to go about the game peacefully...but I also hope to have others in the game who want and exist simply to challenge me. That, for me, is balance. By the way, I'm only a level 35....so I'm not this big powerful thug that can run around doing what I please. I have to play carefully and strategically. Always one eye on the radar. I love the depth in this game and hope even more layers can be added. I just hope they don't remove the one layer that makes this game so rewarding for me. And that's the challenge of protecting my ground and my property that I've worked to obtain. Essentially...I love the way this game plays now. The only beefs I have is when something is a bug. I'm not sure R* can water their product down to appease everyone. And I believe they could make this game a big mess in an attempt to do so.

Are you saying that wanting to level/gear up to kill other players is somehow different/better than wanting to level/gear up to kill npcs and animals? If so, maybe you are wrong. R* has big plans for this game, a lot of which might mirror what they did with GTA. The $$$ and levels could be used to buy properties,businesses , horses, vehicles and yes clothing to dress up our dolls. If you tell me you didn't spend money to dress up your varmint rifle and other guns I'd be shocked. There is so much more to this game than the run and gun. Some people fail to see that and are content with doing just that, which is fine. Others want more out of the game than auto aim and cut scene kills. I'm in agreement with you here, I wouldn't compare most griefers to the anti-christ. I find that they are more comparable to a red bull sipping ten year old that just was told no for the first time.

This was my suggestion to R* today, "Hey R* if you want to keep the free roam only mode the perhaps when players break the law, like killing another player, Then start making your sheriffs and bounty hunters = to level 200. You want to be outlaw then go for it. Please take Auto Aim off."

This is obviously the simple solution. I mean really. We need TWO aim modes. Free aim and Auto aim. From there, both aim choices go into lobby choices. Free Roam, Friendly Free Roam, Friends Only, Invite Only. Players who can't handle getting killed by other players and have no interest in PVP should not be in the same lobby with others who do. Seriously.. Some people get killed by a player, and REPORT them? WTF? When I get killed by a play I get excited for a shoot out. And adding more money to my bounty..lol

I don't think we have to pay to do the Daily Challenges. You simply choose the ones you want to do and try to achieve them. You do not have to do all of them to earn the reward. I believe you get 200xp for each one and some gold nuggets. Some are so easy that I've completed them without even remembering they were challenges (i.e. skin 2 herons). If anything, I think R* has added more ways for us to earn XP. Maybe I'm not understanding the issue you're speaking of, though?

Once you've hit level 30, you pretty much have access to all the tools required to fish, hunt , clear hideouts and do the missions successfully. After reaching this rank, you'll have earned all the $$$ to do so, too. Bolt action rifle (or some other rifle), varmint rifle, bow and arrow, fishing rod and lures. Most of these are achievable by rank 15. That's all you need. You don't need ability cards to do what I've noted above. I think you really only need those for PvP....I stand to be corrected, though. Maybe R* simply needs to open up the single player Epilogue for coop and add the missions found in RDO. Sounds like that is the experience that some people are looking to have.

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Undoubtedly. Metallica slowed their pace of play down considerably after Cliff was gone.

I must have missed the historic part of the battle of Wounded Knee when Custer was shot in the back of the head by a varmint rifle when exiting a cutscene.

Oh, so you're a Cliff-guy? I get it. Music is so subjective that it's almost impossible to not have an eclectic palette these days. But #1 for me hasn't changed in 25 years: Sure, there's newer stuff, but nobody's done it better. I listened to that song in the church before my wedding ceremony got started. I listened to it on the way to the hospital when my wife was in labor. In college writing papers, or even today if I know the day's going to be a rough one, I start my day with this song. My emotional attachment to it is borderline unhealthy--tot he point that if I'm lucky to be coherent enough to have something play me off into the sunset as I get ready to shuffle loose the mortal coil, it's going to be this. My guilty pleasure music? Movie scores. Not soundtracks, but the scores themselves. James Horner, Ennio Morricone, Basil Poledouris, and so many other talented composers have given me the soundtrack to my own life that's far more intimate and memorable than any popular music selection.

Any Metallica, 82-86

So I was on last night a bit trying to grind up some money and xp via collecting herbs pretty much minding my own business and all was good. I come down out of the hills north of emerald station and veered east in order to avoid a known hazard area of emerald station to go to a fishing hole I like. I saw a blue dot on mini map and went opposite direction but couldn't loose him. Then three more appears from direction I am going to so I changed directions again. By the time I was almost to Blackwater these clowns were still on my ass. I looked at player list and they were from level 200 to 85 and I am 29. So as I was thinking to myself that I am actually paying to be harassed like this I decided to log after blocking them of coarse. The point I am trying to make here is that this is not fun at this point and I am really tired of other people ruining my game for me. I mean come on guys what kind of challenge is that. R* has the coding in place to make the game fun for all by adding invite only sessions but they refuse to implement it. I think all you people should be able to play the game the way you like and that includes those that choose to be back shooters and those like myself that want to play with friends that have the same play styles. I like a good shoot em up as well as the next but to run around in constant chaos is not what I bought into. For me it is time to shelf this one for maybe a later date. I will be playing from time to time when I see friends on but as a solo player I think I am done. Hmm maybe go to Division for awhile dunno.....

Which of those names relates to your girlfriend? 😀

I change my characters appearance quite often out of boredom, hopefully the clothing options coming in the update this Tuesday will be worth my cash and all the killing I've done to make said cash. I rarely use the camera and therefore I've not varied my posing style too much but here are a few photographs of my character, most of them taken when I think the lighting looks nice or after I've stolen a hat I liked the look of.

Come on people close this good for nothing post everyone concerned knows how to tell one from another it's like telling white from black though with new Daly challenges like kill 5 players with specific weapon griefing is losing its essence