Criticism

[DylBandit]

Hey all,

I wanted to make this post to get things off of my mind, and I wanted to do this thread so people can discuss about this. Okay, so I've noticed a lot of people are targeting Rockstar and criticizing them and pointing out their flaws. Honestly, I don't mind the talk of things Rockstar did wrong in the game, but why not talk about the things Rockstar did right? I am so tired of people pointing out flaws, and complaining more than my 3 year old sister does. This game is amazing, is it perfect? Absolutely not, but neither was Grand Theft Auto V or Grand Theft Auto IV, which both are LEGENDARY games. But, let's stick to the parameters of this discussion. Red Dead Redemption 2 is a great game, and most people can't see past the minor issues this game has and it's an absolute SHAME. I see more people criticizing rather than embracing this game. This game has so many more positives than negatives, yet people are complaining about them like it's the end of the world, and won't give Rockstar a chance to improve the game. 

Yeah, this game has been in the works for a very long time, can't you see that in the craftsmanship and detail in the game along with the amazing story? The Red Dead series has improved in so many ways. The hunting is far and beyond what it use to be in the previous Red Dead title, the customization is far more better, the motion capture is amazing, the gun play and horse riding experience is absolutely phenomenal. All of these good positives in the game, and yet people complain over how long missions take, and how horses can't run in between trees? Come on guys, half of the games these days can't even meet half of the expectations Rockstar's games has from their fans. Most games now a days are released with the same exact thing with almost no improvement in their own series, filled with micro-transactions, and HELL some of them don't even contain a FREAKING campaign with NO beneficial message. 

Before people start saying I'm biased and I'm only defending the game, well I hate to break it to you, I AM defending the game. Most people walk all over this game because they have complaints everywhere on the littlest things, and it's a shame how the littlest things ruin the game for them, when this game beats and demolishes almost all of the games released this generation. Not every game is perfect, and I understand videos games are subjective. Some people may not like the game because of the change in pace, that's fine. Some people may not like the game because theirs so much cut scenes, and you have to be careful about the lawmen attacking you, and you have to keep an eye on your health, and you have to hold medicine and things so you can revive yourself and help your horse, that's fine. It's a different type of style of game, this isn't a fast paced Call of Duty shooter, or a Fortnite game. This is a wild west game where things are slow, traveling takes time, and things are way different. But, when people walk on this game for the smallest little detail of error, they automatically hate this game so much to the point they start jumping on forums, bashing the game, and start attacking people with rude remarks, and hate filled comments, that's when things REALLY gets to me and shows where the gaming community has landed. Whatever happened to the appreciation of innovation? Unreal. 

I've been playing video games all of my life, and I will continue to support studios and games that are actually good and worth playing, because that's the heart and soul of gaming. Most people are so into fast pace, super competitive games, so much to the point where they can't respect a different genre of games. I would always give credit where it's due, even if I don't like the game. I honestly didn't like Skyrim when it came out, but I still gave it credit for being a super amazing game that changed everything for RPGs. Just because it didn't reach MY expectations of the game, doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and bash on it like its the end of the world, and kill my fingers typing on forums talking bad about people, and shout out the minor flaws saying it's the worst thing that ever spawned on earth. 

Okay, now that most of this is off my chest, I could hopefully make my views clear to people, and maybe convince someone who hated the littlest things about the game to maybe look at the bigger picture. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by DylBandit

[MJROu812]

Don't pay attention to the people picking the game apart.....RDR2 is my favorite game all year, bar none.....cant lay down my controller, when playing this game.

Edited November 4, 2018 by MJROu812

[Jayjoejohnlongsilver]

Totally agree with all what u said dude.

[DylBandit]

20 minutes ago, MJROu812 said:

Don't pay attention to the people picking the game apart.....RDR2 is my favorite game all year, bar none.....cant lay down my controller, when playing this game.

Same

[DylBandit]

1 minute ago, Jayjoejohnlongsilver said:

Totally agree with all what u said dude.

I'm glad someone agrees. 

[Benjo]

48 minutes ago, DylBandit said:

Okay, now that most of this is off my chest, I could hopefully make my views clear to people, and maybe convince someone who hated the littlest things about the game to maybe look at the bigger picture. 

It's the bigger picture I have a problem with.

[Kean_1]

I really enjoy the game and it's set to be one of my all time favorites.  Most of my friends agree and all of them have been spending way more hours playing it than most games in recent memory. 

Having said that, I have nothing against people being critical about aspects of the game they don't like. .....but It's the hyperbole and/or discourtesy some show toward others that tends to get under my skin especially against those that are simply trying to help or provide an alternative viewpoints.  

This forum is no different to others when it comes to such things.  Although I still think this one does a better job at moderating.  

In the end, I know there are going to be those who don't share the same opinion of the game that I do.  Nothing wrong with that IMO and I welcome the discussions.  .....provided they stay civil.

[Benjo]

4 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

I really enjoy the game and it's set to be one of my all time favorites.  Most of my friends agree and all of them have been spending way more hours playing it than most games in recent memory. 

The source of my problems with this game is the fact I spent hundreds, literally hundreds of hours playing RDR1, so I know the mechanics of it intimately. I 100%ed it long before I finished playing it, and know the whole game literally like the back of my hand. It's great that people love this game, and rightly so, but for me, being able to see that 60% of the game is based on the same old scripted, antiquated system that the first one was made on, then sold as "changing open world gaming", it doesn't hit the mark for me. 

Like I said, my opinions are based on a) my knowledge of the first one and b) comparing that to what they sold it as.

Looking at it objectively I can see why people love it, and I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but for me there are major problems with what they touted and what they delivered, and unless someone has as much knowledge of the first game and puts forward an argument that counters that, I'll feel the same. 

[TheWoos]

Best game i have ever played, hands down. I'm 42 and played alot of games in my years, looking forward to the PC release to replay it (i'm 90% done in the story). I do see a number of negative reviews on a number of sites and i simply put it down to individuals expectations. Some people like to play games where you aim and shoot repetitively (im not saying there is anything wrong with that) and some people want a deeper more meaniful immersion but it all comes down to how well it allows the player to escape, to immerse themselves into the game and enjoy it for what it is. I can't recall any game giving me as much enjoyment as this game has so far (on XBOX One X) but can't wait for the PC version where alot of the glitches will be fixed and the graphics will be pumped up to 100% with my RTX2080 !!!

Your not alone mate, if people can't see the effort and worth in this game then i feel sorry for them because what i got from it was astounding and gives me hope for what is to come over the next 20 years in gaming.... Be grateful you enjoyed it so much and feel sorry for those who don't.

 

SPOILER -

Spoiler

Playing the first 70% of the story as Arthur Morgan is a nice twist and closing out going back to playing John Marston from RDR was a great change of pace.

I'm nowhere near as informed on RDR as i would need to be to argue with your comments regarding 1 v 2 but would be interested to know the details that dragged it down for you.

[Tom21]

Criticism helps developers deliver better games in the future, but I also think this game has been a huge target of trolls lately and its very obvious in some “criticisms”, like “clunky controls” which is an overblown way of describing controls that were also in gta v.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Tom21

[Benjo]

1 minute ago, Tom21 said:

Criticism helps developers deliver better games in the future, but I also think this game has been a huge target of trolls lately and its very obvious in some “criticisms”, like “clunky controls”.

You consider someone having a problem with a game mechanic "trolling"?

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, Benjo said:

The source of my problems with this game is the fact I spent hundreds, literally hundreds of hours playing RDR1, so I know the mechanics of it intimately. I 100%ed it long before I finished playing it, and know the whole game literally like the back of my hand. It's great that people love this game, and rightly so, but for me, being able to see that 60% of the game is based on the same old scripted, antiquated system that the first one was made on, then sold as "changing open world gaming", it doesn't hit the mark for me. 

Like I said, my opinions are based on a) my knowledge of the first one and b) comparing that to what they sold it as.

Looking at it objectively I can see why people love it, and I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but for me there are major problems with what they touted and what they delivered, and unless someone has as much knowledge of the first game and puts forward an argument that counters that, I'll feel the same. 

I get it.  I played a crap load of RDR too.  I guess I just have come to a point where I tend to temper my expectations of a games based on marketing and hype. 

I expected RDR2 to be a better, more enhanced version of RDR1 which I believe they delivered.  Personally, I don't feel let down or lied to like some but to be honest, hype is nothing new in the gaming industry.  RDR2 simply delivered more of the kind of experience I expected.  .....but I get that some may be disappointed by comparison and that's fine.  I'm not looking to convince others that they should be satisfied if they truly are not.  

To be honest, I'm happy and that's what really matters.

[TheWoos]

It's a limit of their engine unfortunately and while Rockstar have advanced it a long way since RDR it does lack the "smoothness of movement" that other engines do but i wouldn't swap it for an engine that couldn't provide that beautiful scenery.

[Tom21]

3 minutes ago, Benjo said:

You consider someone having a problem with a game mechanic "trolling"?

In the way that trolls are potraying it, yes. Like Ive said in another post, its not new and is nearly identical to gta v’s. Its way overblown is the point.

[Benjo]

1 minute ago, Tom21 said:

In the way that trolls are potraying it, yes. Like Ive said in another post, its not new and is nearly identical to gta v’s. Its way overblown is the point.

It uses RAGE which was developed 12 years ago, which yes, GTA 5 used, but so did Table Tennis on the Wii in 2006. I think some progression is not a lot to expect.

[Tom21]

2 hours ago, Benjo said:

It uses RAGE which was developed 12 years ago, which yes, GTA 5 used, but so did Table Tennis on the Wii in 2006. I think some progression is not a lot to expect.

Again, nowhere have I denied its there, just saying the degree to which its done and how its done is obviously trollish.

Example: one critic of the game in a review had the title of the article as “why is rockstar still using their ancient control scheme?” 

That is a much more honest depiction. Now the trollish way is some other reviewers who outright act like its totally new (as in a mistake rather than a continued tradition) and ruins the whole game. It didnt ruin gta v why would it ruin this game?

Edited November 5, 2018 by Tom21

[Poggy]

The reasons why there has been so much criticism:

people notice the negative more than the positive naturally

the game was very hyped, even over sold - the reality falls short of the promise

there are genuinely game breaking visual issues and glitches for some users - this is about as negative as you can get

many mechanics have been poorly explained, and thus are often misrepresented as glitches when it's user error

people paid a lot for dlc content which is either missing, glitching, or left unexplained - it seems like they lost cash=upset

the game got 10/10 reviews almost across the board - and it is hard to justify 'perfect' if you've had issues like the above

the control system is clunky, and can foster accidental immersion breaking user errors - needing reloads=upset

some elements, like NPCs on tracks, mission templates, and animation scripts, have barely changed from rdr1= oversold

 

All that said, as I've spent time explaining before, this game is truly amazing, game of the year, visually stunning, immersive, good illusion of npc reactivity, addictive, expansive etc.  I give it 9/10, and if some of the issues above had been ironed out during the delay, and if the hype had been a little more realistic, then it might well have got 10/10.

I love rdr2, most fun I've had on a console for a long time.  

 

[Skinnsofa]

I am NOT trolling! 

I dont think this product is a game, more a tv-serie. You dont ever make a decision.... Not once during this story do you ever use skills or brains. I was soo looking forward to this and feel like Im duped. Sitting here following someone for 45 hours. How can you call this a game? 

Im thinking that this product must be made in a communistcountry, because you are just allowed to do exactly what they scripted you to do and you have to do it very slow. Its the very opposite of  what you should expect from a freeroam/sandboxgame.

I see you try to explain that the lack of smoothness and the clunkyness, but all other games you would compare this to has a smooth movement and far better layout and Rockstar is stuck at the terrible movements from a old game.

For fans I guess they stick with it, but my guess is that 85% that bought this game, will do as I did. Get bored and find a game that is more fun and not scripted to death.

 

[Poggy]

I understand that there are legitimate concerns with this game, including that the script is railroady, and that it was over-hyped and over-sold.

However, I do think some of your comments are too hyperbolic and not reasonable.  It is still a great game and very open (away from the story missions at least).  85%  I very much doubt that!

Maybe the critical side could be more moderate in tone and expression?

[DylBandit]

7 hours ago, TheWoos said:

Best game i have ever played, hands down. I'm 42 and played alot of games in my years, looking forward to the PC release to replay it (i'm 90% done in the story). I do see a number of negative reviews on a number of sites and i simply put it down to individuals expectations. Some people like to play games where you aim and shoot repetitively (im not saying there is anything wrong with that) and some people want a deeper more meaniful immersion but it all comes down to how well it allows the player to escape, to immerse themselves into the game and enjoy it for what it is. I can't recall any game giving me as much enjoyment as this game has so far (on XBOX One X) but can't wait for the PC version where alot of the glitches will be fixed and the graphics will be pumped up to 100% with my RTX2080 !!!

Your not alone mate, if people can't see the effort and worth in this game then i feel sorry for them because what i got from it was astounding and gives me hope for what is to come over the next 20 years in gaming.... Be grateful you enjoyed it so much and feel sorry for those who don't.

 

SPOILER -

  Hide contents

Playing the first 70% of the story as Arthur Morgan is a nice twist and closing out going back to playing John Marston from RDR was a great change of pace.

I'm nowhere near as informed on RDR as i would need to be to argue with your comments regarding 1 v 2 but would be interested to know the details that dragged it down for you.

Haven't had this much fun on PS4 in a long time. 

[YodaMan 3D]

12 hours ago, DylBandit said:

Hey all,

I wanted to make this post to get things off of my mind, and I wanted to do this thread so people can discuss about this. Okay, so I've noticed a lot of people are targeting Rockstar and criticizing them and pointing out their flaws. Honestly, I don't mind the talk of things Rockstar did wrong in the game, but why not talk about the things Rockstar did right? I am so tired of people pointing out flaws, and complaining more than my 3 year old sister does. This game is amazing, is it perfect? Absolutely not, but neither was Grand Theft Auto V or Grand Theft Auto IV, which both are LEGENDARY games. But, let's stick to the parameters of this discussion. Red Dead Redemption 2 is a great game, and most people can't see past the minor issues this game has and it's an absolute SHAME. I see more people criticizing rather than embracing this game. This game has so many more positives than negatives, yet people are complaining about them like it's the end of the world, and won't give Rockstar a chance to improve the game. 

Yeah, this game has been in the works for a very long time, can't you see that in the craftsmanship and detail in the game along with the amazing story? The Red Dead series has improved in so many ways. The hunting is far and beyond what it use to be in the previous Red Dead title, the customization is far more better, the motion capture is amazing, the gun play and horse riding experience is absolutely phenomenal. All of these good positives in the game, and yet people complain over how long missions take, and how horses can't run in between trees? Come on guys, half of the games these days can't even meet half of the expectations Rockstar's games has from their fans. Most games now a days are released with the same exact thing with almost no improvement in their own series, filled with micro-transactions, and HELL some of them don't even contain a FREAKING campaign with NO beneficial message. 

Before people start saying I'm biased and I'm only defending the game, well I hate to break it to you, I AM defending the game. Most people walk all over this game because they have complaints everywhere on the littlest things, and it's a shame how the littlest things ruin the game for them, when this game beats and demolishes almost all of the games released this generation. Not every game is perfect, and I understand videos games are subjective. Some people may not like the game because of the change in pace, that's fine. Some people may not like the game because theirs so much cut scenes, and you have to be careful about the lawmen attacking you, and you have to keep an eye on your health, and you have to hold medicine and things so you can revive yourself and help your horse, that's fine. It's a different type of style of game, this isn't a fast paced Call of Duty shooter, or a Fortnite game. This is a wild west game where things are slow, traveling takes time, and things are way different. But, when people walk on this game for the smallest little detail of error, they automatically hate this game so much to the point they start jumping on forums, bashing the game, and start attacking people with rude remarks, and hate filled comments, that's when things REALLY gets to me and shows where the gaming community has landed. Whatever happened to the appreciation of innovation? Unreal. 

I've been playing video games all of my life, and I will continue to support studios and games that are actually good and worth playing, because that's the heart and soul of gaming. Most people are so into fast pace, super competitive games, so much to the point where they can't respect a different genre of games. I would always give credit where it's due, even if I don't like the game. I honestly didn't like Skyrim when it came out, but I still gave it credit for being a super amazing game that changed everything for RPGs. Just because it didn't reach MY expectations of the game, doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and bash on it like its the end of the world, and kill my fingers typing on forums talking bad about people, and shout out the minor flaws saying it's the worst thing that ever spawned on earth. 

Okay, now that most of this is off my chest, I could hopefully make my views clear to people, and maybe convince someone who hated the littlest things about the game to maybe look at the bigger picture. 

1st, it's a forum.  Not everyone will be fanboys.  Not everyone will be trolls.  All of them will be critiques to some point.   If you post, be opened minded enough to the fact that your opinion may be wrong in the eyes of others.

2nd, I love the game upto a point.  It does have some major flaws that have been disappointing.   Like being chased, find a clearing with a lone tree, turn and shoot the bad people and get bucked off cause my dumb horse ran straight for the tree knocking itself out.  Leaving to die getting shot up locked in some animation.  Kind of bad for a gun fight and it wasn't the direction I was heading.  Or using Dead Eye, shoot a bad guy in the head only to have him stand up and kill me as I turn to face another opponent and that's after the little kill animation. 

Great game but for some, it is the little things that will make them love the game.  So just because there are those of us that do love, don't expect others to say nothing, cause we don't want to hear their opinions.  They are entitled to their opinions as much as we are to ours.