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GTA O has me a bit worried about RDR online


HuDawg
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When GTA O 1st started off it was pretty awesome...  It was no where near perfect, R* did make some really dumb choices in GTA O when it 1st started.

Insurance  ( so players used high insured vehicles to attack other players) ...

Always on player blips (players alway knew where others where).    Which made it easy to troll players

Catch up in races.  (Which slowed down the person in front for some reason)

To much weapon, ammo and explosive carries.    (25 stickies...20 rpgs..  1000's of bullets with a ton of guns)

 

But, by the time the Xbone and PS4 version came around.. The game started to go down hill.

Free Aim players had to deal with "free aim assisted aim'  Which was a soft snap auto aim.  Which defeated the purpose of a FREE AIM mode

R* added new free roam business missions.  But due to always on blips and a notifications, it made it easy to attack and troll players.  And this could only be played in Public sessions.   

Allowed players to instantly fill up all their ammo by using a mini menu instead of having to go to a gun store.  Which basically gave players the ability to always have ammo and explosives.

Allowed players to own heavily armed and armored vehicles..   Some of which had insurance tied to it.  

Flying bikes and cars.. that had the best lock on rockets in the game and a high insurance for destroying them.

I could go on and on.

 

 

And now we wait for RDR Online..  And im just sitting here wondering just what the hell R* is going do with this.  Because no real GOOD info has been given about this.

 

I really hope we get the same aim modes as the last RDR had for multiplayer.    Auto aim for players who enjoy auto aim. free aim for the players who enjoy manual.  And keep them separate.

And i also hope they have a friendly free roam just for co-op. 

Player blips, i also hope are limited and NOT just always on all the time.  

As far as ammo goes.  If R* allows instant refills of ammo then RDR O will turn into dynamite and explosive rounds non stop.

 

Guess we will all know in a week of two what R* has in store.  Im just a bit anxious.

 

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53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Insurance  ( so players used high insured vehicles to attack other players) ...

I dunno about this one.  If you're going to spend big money on these vehicles, then what's the point if you can't use and have fun with them?    If there was the risk of losing and having to repurchase them again, there would be little sense in buying them in the first place. 

As for RDR2, it's a different ballgame IMO.  ......for obvious reasons.

53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Always on player blips (players alway knew where others where).    Which made it easy to troll players

There was information about this that was leaked / rumored which mentioned that the radar would be restricted to proximity vs. the entire map.  If that's true, I hope the restriction is limited to what you can see on the minimap or even closer.

53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Catch up in races.  (Which slowed down the person in front for some reason)

Well, it already works that way in RDR2 now so I would imagine it will in RDO as well.

53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

To much weapon, ammo and explosive carries.    (25 stickies...20 rpgs..  1000's of bullets with a ton of guns)

This is already different in RDR2 so I don't see that changing in RDO.  In GTAV, the mechanic was the same for the campaign and GTAVO.

In RDR2 you're limited to two long guns and two handguns and ammo is capped.  

53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Allowed players to instantly fill up all their ammo by using a mini menu instead of having to go to a gun store.  Which basically gave players the ability to always have ammo and explosives.

Yeah, not sure how this will play out in RDR2 but given the differences between the game and R*s drive to immerse the player in the RD gameworld, I suspect ammo purchases will be limited to stores / vendors and perhaps (still) dead bodies (looting).

53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Allowed players to own heavily armed and armored vehicles..   Some of which had insurance tied to it.  

Flying bikes and cars.. that had the best lock on rockets in the game and a high insurance for destroying them.

I could go on and on.

I've heard this argument before but you need to take these things in context....

GTA and RDR are two different games.  GTAV/O was all about the outrageous, indulgences, humor, etc.  RDR2 is a more "serious" game that's all about immersing the player in the 1899 universe.  There will still be "vehicles" but more along the lines of wagons with mounted guns, etc.  Things that are at least within the realm of the believable for that period.  I just don't see them doing anything like flying trains, etc. in this game.

53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

And now we wait for RDR Online..  And im just sitting here wondering just what the hell R* is going do with this.  Because no real GOOD info has been given about this.

I really hope we get the same aim modes as the last RDR had for multiplayer.    Auto aim for players who enjoy auto aim. free aim for the players who enjoy manual.  And keep them separate.

And i also hope they have a friendly free roam just for co-op. 

Player blips, i also hope are limited and NOT just always on all the time.  

As far as ammo goes.  If R* allows instant refills of ammo then RDR O will turn into dynamite and explosive rounds non stop.

Guess we will all know in a week of two what R* has in store.  Im just a bit anxious.

 

They've been very tight lipped about it and I suspect we'll know more about a week before launch.  

I too hope for more of a focus on co-op and given some of the vague indications, I think there may be.  

They have already said that they will be using some mechanics / ideas from GTAVO and I think it would be naive to think that they wouldn't use some of what they've learned from that game and apply it in RDR2.  .....but folks also need to realize that GTAVO is not dead.  It will still exist alongside of RDR2.  It wouldn't make sense to copy the exact same formula.  RDR2 will be a different experience I'll wager.  

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Good post, I do have to mostly agree with your concerns, we'll see soon enough what RDR:O is all about !!

 

IMO the mecanics and the physics of red dead redemption 2 is well made, I do have high expectations for the online part, will probably not play another game once the online is released.

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At the expense of sounding trite, the game is probably going to have multiple online modes, including an open world free roam version; if I had to guess, it'd probably be akin to the current single player mode, but with the ability to purchase and upgrade housing, gang hideouts, and populated with other players as opposed to NPC's only.  

Maybe they have cooperative and PvP versions separate.  Maybe they're co-mingled.  I do think the slower pace of the game overall (being locked into horseback, stagecoach, or train travel when not on foot) is going to severely limit the ability of players/groups to actively troll in the online component.

Or maybe I'm wrong, and they'll add in Doc Brown's flying time traveling steam engine as DLC.

 

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On 11/16/2018 at 12:47 PM, Kean_1 said:

I dunno about this one.  If you're going to spend big money on these vehicles, then what's the point if you can't use and have fun with them?    If there was the risk of losing and having to repurchase them again, there would be little sense in buying them in the first place. 

 

What i meant is people would use insurance against players.

The oldest example was the Entity Super Car which was bullet proof from the rear.  So players would position the car with the rear end toward players and attack.  Forcing players to blow up the vehicle.    The defending player would end up paying insurance money for it.

Nowadays in GTA O.  You can get chased by a flying bike with rockets.  You blow that up, you pay insurance.  The player instantly gets it back, and comes right back at you.  Basically forcing the defending player to either go passive, or lose tons money due to insurance if they keep taking the bike down..

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Quote

Josh: One of the biggest differences between GTA and Red Dead universes is that you’re often speeding through or flying over a GTA world, whereas in Red Dead Redemption the change of pace elevates the intimacy of the overall experience. Like the single player game’s story of Arthur Morgan, we want people to settle into their online characters and feel like every activity makes sense for the character, the setting and the time.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/09/19/red-dead-online-devs-reveal-first-details

 

Most of the stuff you're worried about probably wont be an issue. I'm hoping for more cooperative content and server stability. They don't address servers stability but do mention they feel the heists were the best part of GTA Online and want to make that sort of thing a big part of Red Dead.

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On 11/18/2018 at 9:01 AM, HuDawg said:

What i meant is people would use insurance against players.

The oldest example was the Entity Super Car which was bullet proof from the rear.  So players would position the car with the rear end toward players and attack.  Forcing players to blow up the vehicle.    The defending player would end up paying insurance money for it.

Nowadays in GTA O.  You can get chased by a flying bike with rockets.  You blow that up, you pay insurance.  The player instantly gets it back, and comes right back at you.  Basically forcing the defending player to either go passive, or lose tons money due to insurance if they keep taking the bike down..

Ok, but like I said, we're talking about RDR2 and not a gameworld full of tanks, planes, cars, flying motor bikes, etc.

Yeah, where there is a will there is a way and folks will always take advantage of exploits.  However, let's keep it in the context of RDR2 and what R*s goal has been with this title.  As I mentioned before, GTAV was all about the ludicrous, the outrageous, etc.  RDR2 is a bit more "serious" and about the immersion in the RDR gameworld and late 19th century time period.  

Will there be some silly elements?  ....yeah, sure.  .....but I don't expect it to be anywhere on the level of GTAV.  

Again, remember that GTAVO and RDO will both be games that will be be supported side by side.  It wouldn't make sense to create an online game experience with RDO that was the same as GTAVO.  R* wants to keep GTAVO going into the foreseeable future and I have no doubt that they will. 

They have made it clear (IMO) that while RDO may share some elements of GTA, it will still be a different experience.

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11 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

So always on Player Blips..    And NO FREE AIM?

 

Im super pissed off..   

 

Huge let down..   

 

 

 

As Slim mentioned, it's a beta.  They were not likely to roll out all features of RDO at launch.  There isn't even a passive mode right now from what some are saying and I don't even know if there is a friends-only session like there was in GTAO which I'm disappointed about but again, it's a beta and I didn't expect it would be complete.

PvP activities are what seems to be popular (e.g. adversarial, racing, etc.) so it makes sense that is what they will concentrate on for now.  If you think about it, less components means less things that can break.  Once they get the foundation stable and sorted, I'll wager they will introduce more types of sessions, modes, options, etc.  

I am a bit miffed about the player location as well btw and I hope this is something that will change later.  I thought (hoped) that the rumors were true about implementing a proximity based system.  

Anyhow, R* will be making an announcement later today that will provide more details about the beta, features and their plans.   ......just stay tuned before making any final judgements.

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12 minutes ago, sLLiMM said:

It's a beta just give em some time

 

R* is the least transparent game devs in the world.  They lost my faith in Online modes with GTA O.

I don't see how giving them time is something that should apply to Free Aim.  Free Aim is TOP priority for many player.   It should be there on arrival.

 

Hell its the 1st thing i did in story mode..the moment i could access the options.  Auto Aim OFF!...   

 

For people who use auto aim..   They obviously won't care, because they have that already.   But if R* made it free aim only, they would be howling at the moon.

 

Well im HOWLING!.   Im about to rip the moon down and stomp it into pieces, pick it up .. slam it and stomp it some more.   

Guess it time to spam R* support and group up with other free aim players.  

 

Sorry for the rant.. I know nobody here can do something about it.  Just blowin off steam.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

R* is the least transparent game devs in the world.  They lost my faith in Online modes with GTA O.

I don't see how giving them time is something that should apply to Free Aim.  Free Aim is TOP priority for many player.   It should be there on arrival.

Hell its the 1st thing i did in story mode..the moment i could access the options.  Auto Aim OFF!...   

For people who use auto aim..   They obviously won't care, because they have that already.   But if R* made it free aim only, they would be howling at the moon.

Well im HOWLING!.   Im about to rip the moon down and stomp it into pieces, pick it up .. slam it and stomp it some more.   

Guess it time to spam R* support and group up with other free aim players.  

Sorry for the rant.. I know nobody here can do something about it.  Just blowin off steam.

The "give it time" remark was also regarding the player "blips", etc. The fact is, we don't know what options/components/mechanics will be changed, added or removed from the beta as time goes on. 

I'll wager that while some might prefer free aim, a greater majority likely prefer to play with some level of auto aim on.  Quite frankly, R* games are one of the very few where I still use AA myself because I find the combat / aiming to be a little clunky.  Tactical shooters and/or most FPS's on the other hand, I almost always go with free aim.  A good example of a TPP shooter that I used free aim with (and found very comfortable) was GR Wildlands.  

......that's not to say I am opposed to a free aim mode in RDO.  Quite the opposite in fact as I would likely grow to enjoy it.  I also think it would discourage griefing and make gunfights more interesting giving those who use cover and tactics more of an advantage.  .....encouraging more methodical approaches to engagements vs. run & gun.

Anyhow, here is the latest from R* on RDO (just posted on their Newswire):

 

RED DEAD ONLINE BETA LAUNCH

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The Red Dead Online Beta is launching this week with early access beginning today. We are easing our servers and systems into handling the increasingly larger player base by scaling up the online population throughout this week – until Friday the 30th – at which point the Beta will be open to everyone with a copy of Red Dead Redemption 2. This will help ensure that our servers can handle a steadily growing volume of concurrent players in the early hours and first days of the Beta and hopefully reduce the likelihood of any server crashes during the launch week as we get things up and running.  Here are the rollout specifics:

  • Tuesday, November 27th: All Red Dead Redemption 2: Ultimate Edition owners. Please note, players who purchased the physical Ultimate Edition must redeem the Ultimate Edition code in the packaging to be eligible.
  • Wednesday, November 28th: All players who played Red Dead Redemption 2 on October 26th according to our data.
  • Thursday, November 29th: All players who played Red Dead Redemption 2 between October 26th to October 29th according to our data.
  • Friday, November 30th: All players who own Red Dead Redemption 2.

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We are aiming to deliver a stable and fun experience while collecting as much crucial information and feedback as possible to help us continually improve Red Dead Online. As with any Beta period, we plan to take the time necessary throughout to make Red Dead Online a complete, fun and fully-functional experience, which may take several weeks or months as we continually work to fix bugs, improve systems and implement player feedback into current or future plans.

If you encounter technical issues of any sort, please visit our dedicated Rockstar Support site to find help or report these issues. And we strongly encourage everyone to send us feedback on your experience, from ways to improve gameplay to suggestions for future content – we want to know what you like, love or dislike and what you’d like to see added, changed or implemented into Red Dead Online. Please visit reddeadonline.com/feedback to share your experiences and input with us.

Make sure you’re staying tuned here at the Rockstar Newswire for regular updates about Red Dead Online, including new content additions, features, changes, and other news about the game.

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The world of Red Dead Online will be a continually expanding experience. There will also be some additions and updates throughout the Beta period. Starting this week, you can ride with friends in a Posse, set up your Camp, embark on cooperative story-based missions or go head-to-head in competitive series, find strangers throughout the world to help (or hurt), tackle spontaneous Free Roam challenges, go hunting, fishing, bond with your horse, explore with friends or on your own (but look out for ambushes), and much more. 

All the while, you’ll accumulate XP through your explorations and encounters that counts towards your rank and provides added bonuses. Unlock items and improve your attributes while you progress. You can also take on Award challenges throughout your open-world experiences to earn Awards in 12 categories like combat, hunting, sharpshooter and survivalist. 

Red Dead Online begins with creating your character. Detail your appearance and attributes before you set out on your journey from Sisika Penitentiary where you’ll acquire a horse, set up a Camp, hunt down a treasure, equip your first Ability Card and meet some fateful characters with a larger story to tell; one that involves chasing truth, revenge, and honor.

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In Red Dead Online, your honor will shift high and low based on your decisions and behavior. You’ll shape your honor through your choices: from life or death decisions to natural interactions such as caring for your horse.

In addition to the world responding to you in subtly different ways, you’ll also notice the nature of certain missions will reveal themselves to you based on your current honor state. 

Free Roam Missions
Head over to the Stranger icons throughout the map alone or with your Posse to embark on Free Roam Missions. You’ll see some familiar faces along the way, and these missions can vary based on how noble or nefarious you are – for example, an honorable gunslinger may be asked to help escort a convoy, defending it from attacking gangs or even other players’ Posses, whereas a dishonorable outlaw may be asked to help spring a felon from the law.

A Land of Opportunities
Honor also plays into this deeper cooperative strand for two to four players that we will continually build upon. In A Land of Opportunities, you’ll be faced with a multi-part series of missions, with some parts changing as your honor changes on a larger journey to seek truth and justice, or revenge.

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Of course, Red Dead Online comes packed with all new competitive game play. The Beta includes 5 new modes at launch that are part of a larger series of Showdowns, and you can also enter your trusted steed into races including point-to-point, lap and open races strewn across the map.

Enter one of the Showdown Series Markers for fast matchmaking into a variety of modes:

Shootout & Team Shootout
Classic gunfight modes with unlimited lives. Compete to rack up the most kills before the timer runs out. Sudden death will trigger in the event of a tie: whoever gets the first kill wins.

Make it Count
A true test of resourcefulness in two game modes: use nothing but a bow and a handful of arrows or throwing knives to be the last one standing. With a gradually shrinking player area, there’s nowhere to run.

Most Wanted
A tactical race to the top. Every kill pushes you up the scoreboard, but watch out: the closer to the top you are, the more points everyone else gets for killing you.

Hostile Territory
Work in teams to control the land. Capture a territory to start racking up points: the team with most points wins - or you can win outright by capturing every territory.

Name your Weapon
Demonstrate your personal specialty in this free-for-all or team based match: the trickier the weapon you use to land the killing blow, the more points you get.

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  • Look out for more details and tips around all of the Red Dead Online Beta gameplay in the days ahead. And be sure to check the Companion App or log in to  Social Club to see when you can jump into the Beta. As always, we want to hear from you and we ask for your help especially during the Beta process. In addition to reporting bugs, technical issues, glitches and exploits at https://support.rockstargames.com, please continue to send us your feedback and suggestions at reddeadonline.com/feedback.
  • We also ask for your help in keeping Red Dead Online a fun and fair environment for everyone. Please use the in-game reporting tools to report any abusive behavior, cheating or exploits you see occurring during the Beta, or that you happen to see posted on external sites like YouTube. A friendly reminder that our longstanding copyright policy rules about posting material from Rockstar games applies now as ever – any videos encouraging cheating in any way are subject to takedown.
  • You may notice some areas of the in-game menus are not yet accessible or available during this early period of the Beta, such as the Red Dead Online in-game Store which will eventually open up to provide the option of purchasing gold bars to directly acquire cosmetic items like Camp décor, or a special style for your weapons.
  • We hope that all player progress during this early period of the Beta will be able to remain intact long term, however as with many betas for large scale online experiences such as this, there is always the chance that we may need to implement rank or other stat resets in case of issues.

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Stay tuned for more updates to Red Dead Online over the coming weeks and months.

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3 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

As Slim mentioned, it's a beta.  They were not likely to roll out all features of RDO at launch.  There isn't even a passive mode right now from what some are saying and I don't even know if there is a friends-only session like there was in GTAO which I'm disappointed about but again, it's a beta and I didn't expect it would be complete.

PvP activities are what seems to be popular (e.g. adversarial, racing, etc.) so it makes sense that is what they will concentrate on for now.  If you think about it, less components means less things that can break.  Once they get the foundation stable and sorted, I'll wager they will introduce more types of sessions, modes, options, etc.  

I am a bit miffed about the player location as well btw and I hope this is something that will change later.  I thought (hoped) that the rumors were true about implementing a proximity based system.  

Anyhow, R* will be making an announcement later today that will provide more details about the beta, features and their plans.   ......just stay tuned before making any final judgements.

From what I've been able to gather, no, there is no passive mode, or even a closed session (friends, solo, etc like in GTA:O).  The only thing that might protect you online right now is "flying a white flag" when you're in your camp.  Not sure exactly how that works since RDO was still down for me when I left for work, but what I've read says it basically makes your camp a safe zone (kinda like when you run into your garage, apartment, etc in GTA:O).  Not sure if this is a default function, or something you activate like passive mode in GTA.  But as many have said, that could very likely change once the launch is completed and everything is ironed out (not necessarily everything, sometimes companies like to release new content even though the base game is still buggy as hell... looking at Funco Games with Conan Exiles specifically right now, so many bugs at launch, and they focused on getting their DLC you pay extra for out instead of fixing anything at all).

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19 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

The "give it time" remark was also regarding the player "blips", etc. The fact is, we don't know what options/components/mechanics will be changed, added or removed from the beta as time goes on. 

I'll wager that while some might prefer free aim, a greater majority likely prefer to play with some level of auto aim on.  Quite frankly, R* games are one of the very few where I still use AA myself because I find the combat / aiming to be a little clunky.  Tactical shooters and/or most FPS's on the other hand, I almost always go with free aim.  A good example of a TPP shooter that I used free aim with (and found very comfortable) was GR Wildlands.  

......that's not to say I am opposed to a free aim mode in RDO.  Quite the opposite in fact as I would likely grow to enjoy it.  I also think it would discourage griefing and make gunfights more interesting giving those who use cover and tactics more of an advantage.  .....encouraging more methodical approaches to engagements vs. run & gun.

To each their own..  I think the auto aim in R* games is horrible.  Especially when it comes to pvp.   I find both AA and FA to be clunky..  but the AA drives me bonkers.

For me, i prefer the free aim because it allows myself to avoid getting shot by other players much easier.     

I also find pvp/pve more exciting without the constant lock ons .  The lock ons drive me crazy, especially when i have to fight with what target im trying to lock on to.

After playing last night with my old GTA O crew.. Everyones going to R* support and begging for Free Aim mode.     Because as it stands we are forced to use AA due to everyone else using AA.  It drives us batty.

I guess maybe i have to have a LITTLE FAITH!!!... And Hope R* comes through with this.

 

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27 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

To each their own..  I think the auto aim in R* games is horrible.  Especially when it comes to pvp.   I find both AA and FA to be clunky..  but the AA drives me bonkers.

For me, i prefer the free aim because it allows myself to avoid getting shot by other players much easier.     

I also find pvp/pve more exciting without the constant lock ons .  The lock ons drive me crazy, especially when i have to fight with what target im trying to lock on to.

After playing last night with my old GTA O crew.. Everyones going to R* support and begging for Free Aim mode.     Because as it stands we are forced to use AA due to everyone else using AA.  It drives us batty.

I guess maybe i have to have a LITTLE FAITH!!!... And Hope R* comes through with this.

 

I get what you're saying and as I mentioned, I might actually prefer a mode like that a well.  However, for me, I can live with an adjustable level of auto aim but what I can't live without (for too long) is a constant PvP / adversarial mode.  

Personally, I think we will get the "solo" and "friends-only" sessions before no auto aim but then again, the former are things that were already in GTAO.  I don't know how many are clamoring for AA-off sessions but I wish you luck.  Get as many supporters as you can to provide the suggestion on R*s official site. ......I'll even do the same while I'm also submitting my suggestion for my co-op / non-PvP options.

 

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3 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

  I don't know how many are clamoring for AA-off sessions but I wish you luck.  Get as many supporters as you can to provide the suggestion on R*s official site. ......I'll even do the same while I'm also submitting my suggestion for my co-op / non-PvP options.

 

I say around 30% of the player base would want free aim.  Maybe more..

GTA O forums red dead section and Reddit is already getting people going to the support page and asking for free aim.

 

If you're going to send a Free Aim suggestion to R* support..   A big thank you!

 

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

I say around 30% of the player base would want free aim.  Maybe more..

GTA O forums red dead section and Reddit is already getting people going to the support page and asking for free aim.

 

It's really the only way to balance the game based on skill.  AA and Deadeye are over-powered in this environment.

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11 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

It's really the only way to balance the game based on skill.  AA and Deadeye are over-powered in this environment.

Some people say FA is about skill.

 

For me.. its mostly about the ability to dodge bullets easier.   :D

In AA.. 90% of the time.  People are going land the 1st shot they lock on.  In FA.. players might have to take 3 or 4 shots before landing one shot.  

 

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2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

I say around 30% of the player base would want free aim.  Maybe more..

GTA O forums red dead section and Reddit is already getting people going to the support page and asking for free aim.

 

If you're going to send a Free Aim suggestion to R* support..   A big thank you!

 

Yep, just did. I submitted a separate request for a hardcore mode to disable AA and limit the radar (or just disable the blips entirely).  

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37 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

I'd be okay with them functioning like they do in single player, where they flash when you have gunfire, or can actually see a rival gang member.

Something along those lines would be nice.  Perhaps even requiring LOS on a target along with proximity to simulate what would be within visual sight.  I wouldn't mind a PvP mode if that were the case.  

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6 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

Something along those lines would be nice.  Perhaps even requiring LOS on a target along with proximity to simulate what would be within visual sight.  I wouldn't mind a PvP mode if that were the case.  

It's been a long time since I played it, but I feel like that was how the original RDR was, blips only showed up when the player was spotted by another player or if they fired their weapon, and then would only stay on the radar/map as long as somebody still had LOS on them (maybe even a short while after losing LOS, kind of a last known position thing).  I may be wrong about that, but it feels like that's how it should be.  Would definitely make those griefers/trolls have to do actual hunting for other players, and we'd still have to watch our backs, but it'd be more enjoyable cuz we can run and hide if we were so inclined.

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