Has PvP become much tougher?

[Poggy]

It seems to me that it has.

People have now had much more practice, everyone is just better.  And many have got the maps down: spawn points, hiding spots, sniping locations etc.  Position seems so much important now.  And everyone now uses the belly-flop spam thing.

With higher levels, and all the gold and cash being thrown around, comes increased ability cards and upgrades and PvP specific load outs. And, of course, better weapons, upgrades and improved ammo.

I also think there's much more co-operation and voice contact; even in supposedly single modes some are obviously working in teams.

Any exploits are now known and utilised, though I think the upgrades have done well to reduce the amount of glitching and lag.  Some people do seem to have 'superpowers' on occasion in PvP.

Most importantly, I suspect (anecdotally heard) that a number of casual players have stopped bothering with PvP modes because they're a bit too sweaty or frustrating.  There's fewer easy targets now.

Anyone else noticing this, or have I just gone crazy?

[HooverRAD]

I got sniped by a guy at level 6 with a Rolling Block yesterday. Those things shouldn't be available at all until the appropriate level. 

[HuDawg]

1 hour ago, Poggy said:

It seems to me that it has.

People have now had much more practice, everyone is just better.  And many have got the maps down: spawn points, hiding spots, sniping locations etc.  Position seems so much important now.  And everyone now uses the belly-flop spam thing.

Belly flop is life.   The pvp modes have made me a belly flop addict.     To many fools with varmint rifles trying to play RNG with auto aim, so belly flops and cover shots are the only counter.    Especially for someone like me who uses free aim.

I find it funny when i dive.. then they dive.. And i just blast them on the ground while they dive.  Because im not waiting for a lock on.

I don't get the most kills, but i do seem to be the one who dies the least.

1 hour ago, Poggy said:

 

Most importantly, I suspect (anecdotally heard) that a number of casual players have stopped bothering with PvP modes because they're a bit too sweaty or frustrating.  There's fewer easy targets now.

The pvp modes in general are frustrating..   Except for the smaller team death match mode.  (Which also makes me miss the old skool red dead shoot out modes)

The free for all modes turns into a game of people getting killed and just respawning behind players.  The spawn are just horrible.  To the point where i almost walk backwards because theres a 99% chance everyone who died is going to spawn in the same place i just spawned and moved away from.

 

[Mpegforever]

2 hours ago, Poggy said:

...............Most importantly, I suspect (anecdotally heard) that a number of casual players have stopped bothering with PvP modes because they're a bit too sweaty or frustrating.  There's fewer easy targets now............

I might jump into free roam soon , very lowe level, just tested it a little. So...after what I read... I'll not even try PVP I guess. Thanks for the note.

[HuDawg]

21 minutes ago, Mpegforever said:

I might jump into free roam soon , very lowe level, just tested it a little. So...after what I read... I'll not even try PVP I guess. Thanks for the note.

The PVP modes. while frustrating  can be good help for learning how to handle free roam trolls/hostiles.

Being put through the meat grinder called Show Down Series.     Once someone in free roam picks a battle its much easier to deal with em.

 

I force myself to play pvp even tho i don't like it...lo

Edited December 16, 2018 by HuDawg

[Poggy]

The spawn kills ... Oh my.  It is one of the most frustrating things.

[HuDawg]

10 minutes ago, Poggy said:

The spawn kills ... Oh my.  It is one of the most frustrating things.

On the plus side.. After being subjected to that sh*t for hours and hours

Running into one hostile player in free roam that attacks for no reason is relaxing...lol

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by HuDawg

[Poggy]

I don't think I stand a chance against level 156 guys.  I assume they have maxxed everything.  I really wouldn't want to be joining PvP post beta!

[Vaderspupil]

I don't know. I finished in the top 5 in Most Wanted the other day and I'm just an average player. I was very proud of that. I don't need to win, I just want to have a respectable performance with preferably more kills than deaths. Win or lose, PVP is an excellent source of money and XP. That's the only reason I do it.

[YodaMan 3D]

On 12/16/2018 at 5:52 AM, Poggy said:

It seems to me that it has.

People have now had much more practice, everyone is just better.  And many have got the maps down: spawn points, hiding spots, sniping locations etc.  Position seems so much important now.  And everyone now uses the belly-flop spam thing.

With higher levels, and all the gold and cash being thrown around, comes increased ability cards and upgrades and PvP specific load outs. And, of course, better weapons, upgrades and improved ammo.

I also think there's much more co-operation and voice contact; even in supposedly single modes some are obviously working in teams.

Any exploits are now known and utilised, though I think the upgrades have done well to reduce the amount of glitching and lag.  Some people do seem to have 'superpowers' on occasion in PvP.

Most importantly, I suspect (anecdotally heard) that a number of casual players have stopped bothering with PvP modes because they're a bit too sweaty or frustrating.  There's fewer easy targets now.

Anyone else noticing this, or have I just gone crazy?

For me it's tougher cause I am still having issues where I have to unload to kill with a headshot.  Where as my opponents' are just taking one headshot to kill me.  Now to top it off as you stated, players are getting better at the game.  You also have the glitch users, cheaters, and the P2W with the Gold Cards.  It would be even harder and the real griefing can start.

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, YodaMan 3D said:

For me it's tougher cause I am still having issues where I have to unload to kill with a headshot.  Where as my opponents' are just taking one headshot to kill me.  Now to top it off as you stated, players are getting better at the game.  You also have the glitch users, cheaters, and the P2W with the Gold Cards.  It would be even harder and the real griefing can start.

The gold bar system isn't what I would consider a P2W model.  P2W models are what you typically find in free-to-play games and/or where you find better weapons, vehicles, etc. locked behind a paywall.  In other words, you have no alternative but to pay to get anything better than what is given to you so you can gain an advantage or at least stay on a level playing field. 

RDO isn't like that.  It's a shortcut model much like GTAV:O.  In RDO, all of the items are still available to players who choose not to buy gold bars.  Gold is even awarded (albeit typically in nuggets) through treasure hunts and missions.  ......but beyond that, you can still buy what you need with in-game cash.  The only items I've seen locked behind Gold Bars are cosmetic as R* said.  .....horse insurance once was but they fixed that early on.

Hell, I've only played about 25 hours and I'm level 19 with an Arabian horse, Lancaster, 2 Schofields, pump action shotgun, bolt action rifle and they are all upgraded.  Even just with the money and gold given to us by R* so far, it doesn't take much to have a decent loadout.  Even the Varmint rifle which seems really popular with headshot artists is only about $75.  .....although IMO its to OP for what it is.

 

[YodaMan 3D]

For those who don't use the shortcut and play the game trying to earn, will be at a HUGE disadvantage to those who shelled out several hundred dollars and bought everything up front.   Now you give it a year after they have released the flying unicorn with heatseeking missiles that come out of its butt.  Those who start from scratch then have buy the Gold Cards or get griefed and left behind.  Most likely they will just quit playing, then to try and catch up.

[Kean_1]

People who start late are always going to be at a disadvantage in a Free Roam mode like this regardless of whether there is an shortcut MTX system in place or not.  If anything, one could argue that the gold bars will help some to get caught up when starting out.  

....but like I said, I haven't played nearly as much as some folks around here and I've already got a lot of the good weapons in the game (all fully upgraded).  I wouldn't consider myself at a disadvantage even while playing with people at levels twice or more than mine.  

You've also got to remember that posses make a huge difference and I would encourage anyone starting out to group together with one.  My friend and I took a new player under our wing the other night and helped him level up a bit and get some dough for new weapons in one session.  

As for outrageous additions to the game, I simply don't see them doing the same thing as GTAV:O in RDO but I'm not going to try to convince you different.  You've had a pretty negative view of RDO even before release and I can't say I blame you.  ....GTAO didn't leave much of an impression on me either but I still don't believe R* is interested in doing a carbon copy of that game given that it still exists side by side with RDO.  

Personally, I prefer to take a wait and see approach to find out how things will shake out.  Even with some of the flaws my friends and I are having a blast with the game.  Even though I think the griefing needs to be addressed (which they said they will), it is still nowhere even close to the levels seen in GTA and is mostly avoidable IME.  In fact, I rarely ever get trolled anymore.  It usually only happens when I spawn in or purposely take risks (usually when I'm with friends).

I'll wait and see how it goes before I make any final judgements on the game.  

 

 

[YodaMan 3D]

11 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

People who start late are always going to be at a disadvantage in a Free Roam mode like this regardless of whether there is an shortcut MTX system in place or not.  If anything, one could argue that the gold bars will help some to get caught up when starting out.  

....but like I said, I haven't played nearly as much as some folks around here and I've already got a lot of the good weapons in the game (all fully upgraded).  I wouldn't consider myself at a disadvantage even while playing with people at levels twice or more than mine.  

You've also got to remember that posses make a huge difference and I would encourage anyone starting out to group together with one.  My friend and I took a new player under our wing the other night and helped him level up a bit and get some dough for new weapons in one session.  

As for outrageous additions to the game, I simply don't see them doing the same thing as GTAV:O in RDO but I'm not going to try to convince you different.  You've had a pretty negative view of RDO even before release and I can't say I blame you.  ....GTAO didn't leave much of an impression on me either but I still don't believe R* is interested in doing a carbon copy of that game given that it still exists side by side with RDO.  

Personally, I prefer to take a wait and see approach to find out how things will shake out.  Even with some of the flaws my friends and I are having a blast with the game.  Even though I think the griefing needs to be addressed (which they said they will), it is still nowhere even close to the levels seen in GTA and is mostly avoidable IME.  In fact, I rarely ever get trolled anymore.  It usually only happens when I spawn in or purposely take risks (usually when I'm with friends).

I'll wait and see how it goes before I make any final judgements on the game.  

My view is that they will use a similar business model for RDR that they used in GTA.  Basically same target audience.  So far they have allowed griefers to run amuck with a promise that they will fix that.  Hmmmm.  This sounds so GTA like.  Just waiting for the UFOs and flying Unicorns.  To be fair those 2 things probably won't be in the game, but I expect tank like wagons and upgraded firearms.  

[BropolloCreed79]

1 hour ago, YodaMan 3D said:

 Now you give it a year after they have released the flying unicorn with heatseeking missiles that come out of its butt. 

Would buy with Gold.

1 hour ago, Kean_1 said:

I'll wait and see how it goes before I make any

purchases of gold, since I am still looking at other online games to satisfy the itch.  The current model isn't working for me, personally, and I may look at either Fallout or wait it out for The Division 2.

7 hours ago, Vaderspupil said:

That's the only reason I do it.

It's not as much fun as F13 used to be before Jason was nerfed into oblivion.

On 12/16/2018 at 8:45 AM, HuDawg said:

Especially for someone like me who uses free aim.

Why is AA even a thing again?  I get it for tracking a squirrel when hunting from horseback, but in a pvp scenario, the only thing I can  think of is that they're trying to level the playing field against CronusMax users in advance.  A good AA will mitigate a lot of the damage those tools can do, but at the cost of a playing field that separates players solely on skill instead of leveling it out.

Next thing you know, EVERYONE will get the same reward.  Like a participation ribbon that's made out of sustainable resources.

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, YodaMan 3D said:

My view is that they will use a similar business model for RDR that they used in GTA.  Basically same target audience.  So far they have allowed griefers to run amuck with a promise that they will fix that.  Hmmmm.  This sounds so GTA like.  Just waiting for the UFOs and flying Unicorns.  To be fair those 2 things probably won't be in the game, but I expect tank like wagons and upgraded firearms.  

Well, we already have evidence that they will use a similar, MTX business model with RDO.  GTAO was proof that R* has the most successful GaaS model in the business. That's already happening now and in all honesty, I don't have a problem with it although I know some do.  The way I look at it, it helps to keep the content coming and the game alive for much longer than it would without one.  .....but then again, some are against any form of MTXs and that will never change.  I still play GTAO and I've never spent a dime on Shark Cards.  .....but I've got plenty of businesses, weapons, vehicles, properties and money.  I tend to revisit after they add new stuff.

The wagons are no surprise.  It was already leaked a couple months ago by dataminers that they discovered some in the code (e.g. small coach, chuck wagon, chuck wagon with gatling, supply wagon, utility wagon and a war wagon).  ....and of course there will be new weapons and other types of new content as I would hope and expect they would have.  It would be pretty boring if the current weapons were all they ever released IMO.  

The data miners also uncovered possible evidence of properties people may be able to buy just like in GTA.  Again, more content for people to spend their money on.  IMO, what's the point in making the money if you can't spend it on things.  A lot of which is going to be purely cosmetic fluff which people enjoy.  

The same team also uncovered data in the app that points to private lobbies and "seamless PvE" (whatever that means).

R* only just announced last Friday that they acknowledge and will address the trolling issue with new anti-griefing measures after the holidays.  It's only been a little over two weeks and RDO is still just a beta.  I prefer to give them some time to see what they do.   ....and even then, as long as people continue to provide their constructive feedback on their site, we could possibly see further changes.

I will say it again, RDO trolling is nowhere near the level it is in GTAO and there's a reason for that.  Things tend to move at a slower pace.  The fastest way to travel in this gameworld is by horse and even when the wagons become available, I highly doubt they will make them as fast or faster than our mounts.  In all honesty, I see things like armed wagons as more defensive than offensive but again, we'll just have to wait and see how it all shake out.  I'll reserve judgement until then.

7 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

purchases of gold, since I am still looking at other online games to satisfy the itch.  The current model isn't working for me, personally, and I may look at either Fallout or wait it out for The Division 2.

Different strokes for different folks but I have to tell ya, playing with like-minded friends in RDO is way more fun and rewarding than playing solo.  RDO isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea right now or even after the beta is over.  ....and that's fine.  Who knows, depending on the direction, I may end moving on to something else as well.

Ubi burned me on FC5 and the direction they took GRW / GW after release.  They killed the AC series for me after BF.  If there is one company that I can say I have the least faith in (other than Hello Games), it would have to be Ubi right now.   Having said that, I heard they were going to reduce TTK in the Division 2 which actually caught my interest (the original was way too bullet spongy for me).  Depending on what my friends do, I might just pick it up too.

[BropolloCreed79]

1 minute ago, Kean_1 said:

If there is one company that I can say I have the least faith in (other than Hello Games), it would have to be Ubi right now. 

Ubi is the worst.  But the team at Massive (the group behind TD1 and now, the sequel) have shown me a lot of things in the 3+ years since TD launched.  Granted, if I had purchased it out of the gate, I'd have been FURIOUS at the product.  I jumped in about a year after it had been released, and it was fantastic (and continued to get better).

Massive accomplished enough with the first one that I have no qualms about plunking down for the collector's edition in March on TD2 (the one without the statue/figure).  They had a rough few years between botched launches of R6 (which improved), TD (which improved), For Honor (doa) and WIldlands (so much wasted potential).  Not every game is going to be a runaway success, but the level of engagement and communication by the team at Massive with the community gave me enough faith to go all in on TD2.

Oh, and I'd never trust Gun/Illfonic for anything ever again after the Friday the 13th: The Game fiasco.  They botched that worse than a Kardashian nose job.

[YodaMan 3D]

22 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

Well, we already have evidence that they will use a similar, MTX business model with RDO.  GTAO was proof that R* has the most successful GaaS model in the business. That's already happening now and in all honesty, I don't have a problem with it although I know some do.  The way I look at it, it helps to keep the content coming and the game alive for much longer than it would without one.  .....but then again, some are against any form of MTXs and that will never change.  I still play GTAO and I've never spent a dime on Shark Cards.  .....but I've got plenty of businesses, weapons, vehicles, properties and money.  I tend to revisit after they add new stuff.

The wagons are no surprise.  It was already leaked a couple months ago by dataminers that they discovered some in the code (e.g. small coach, chuck wagon, chuck wagon with gatling, supply wagon, utility wagon and a war wagon).  ....and of course there will be new weapons and other types of new content as I would hope and expect they would have.  It would be pretty boring if the current weapons were all they ever released IMO.  

The data miners also uncovered possible evidence of properties people may be able to buy just like in GTA.  Again, more content for people to spend their money on.  IMO, what's the point in making the money if you can't spend it on things.  A lot of which is going to be purely cosmetic fluff which people enjoy.  

The same team also uncovered data in the app that points to private lobbies and "seamless PvE" (whatever that means).

R* only just announced last Friday that they acknowledge and will address the trolling issue with new anti-griefing measures after the holidays.  It's only been a little over two weeks and RDO is still just a beta.  I prefer to give them some time to see what they do.   ....and even then, as long as people continue to provide their constructive feedback on their site, we could possibly see further changes.

I will say it again, RDO trolling is nowhere near the level it is in GTAO and there's a reason for that.  Things tend to move at a slower pace.  The fastest way to travel in this gameworld is by horse and even when the wagons become available, I highly doubt they will make them as fast or faster than our mounts.  In all honesty, I see things like armed wagons as more defensive than offensive but again, we'll just have to wait and see how it all shake out.  I'll reserve judgement until then.

Different strokes for different folks but I have to tell ya, playing with like-minded friends in RDO is way more fun and rewarding than playing solo.  RDO isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea right now or even after the beta is over.  ....and that's fine.  Who knows, depending on the direction, I may end moving on to something else as well.

Ubi burned me on FC5 and the direction they took GRW / GW after release.  They killed the AC series for me after BF.  If there is one company that I can say I have the least faith in (other than Hello Games), it would have to be Ubi right now.   Having said that, I heard they were going to reduce TTK in the Division 2 which actually caught my interest (the original was way too bullet spongy for me).  Depending on what my friends do, I might just pick it up too.

So how long till those wagons have rockets on them, or they have horseless buggies.  I read online that one dataminer discovered UFOs in his search, but couldn't tell how far that would go.  Now if you have a horse and another player has a UFO, that can fly across the map in record speed.   Griefing could get out of hand quick.

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, YodaMan 3D said:

So how long till those wagons have rockets on them, or they have horseless buggies.  I read online that one dataminer discovered UFOs in his search, but couldn't tell how far that would go.  Now if you have a horse and another player has a UFO, that can fly across the map in record speed.   Griefing could get out of hand quick.

....and my question would be, what makes you assume RDO will go the route of the outrageous like GTA did?  ....because of GTA?  Again, they already have a successful franchise in GTA and (personally) I see no benefit in trying to duplicate everything that GTA was.  Sure, they will borrow some elements from that game but I still think they will go a more "serious" or "time period" route with RDO.   GTAV was all about things over the top, indulgent, ridiculous and silly.  An over dramatization of modern society and "what ifs".  RDR2 wasn't like that and I don't think they would go that route with RDO.

The UFO reference was an Easter egg found in the main game. You find a note and then travel to a certain location and there is an event that you can witness.  Personally, I don't see any indication from an Easter egg like that that would lead me to believe that they will put UFO's in the game that we can fly, etc.  I never tried to look for it but there are videos on it and tutorials on how to find it.

That's not to say that a future mode won't come along akin to RDR1s Undead Nightmare. 

I don't know what to say.  I'm not going to dwell or speculate on all the bad things that can happen in this game that we don't know about yet.  For now, I'm going to continue to enjoy it as is and cross those bridges as we come to them.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Kean_1

[YodaMan 3D]

24 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

....and my question would be, what makes you assume RDO will go the route of the outrageous like GTA did?  ....because of GTA?  Again, they already have a successful franchise in GTA and (personally) I see no benefit in trying to duplicate everything that GTA was.  Sure, they will borrow some elements from that game but I still think they will go a more "serious" or "time period" route with RDO.   GTAV was all about things over the top, indulgent, ridiculous and silly.  An over dramatization of modern society and "what ifs".  RDR2 wasn't like that and I don't think they would go that route with RDO.

The UFO reference was an Easter egg found in the main game. You find a note and then travel to a certain location and there is an event that you can witness.  Personally, I don't see any indication from an Easter egg like that that would lead me to believe that they will put UFO's in the game that we can fly, etc.  I never tried to look for it but there are videos on it and tutorials on how to find it.

That's not to say that a future mode won't come along akin to RDR1s Undead Nightmare. 

I don't know what to say.  I'm not going to dwell or speculate on all the bad things that can happen in this game that we don't know about yet.  For now, I'm going to continue to enjoy it as is and cross those bridges as we come to them.

Same model and GTA makes a killing finacially.  Why wouldn't they get outrageous and go crazy?  It makes a griefers paradise.  They sell copies of GTA and RDR2.  Now they get the same yahoos bying both.

[LadyLlilith]

It's Cronusmax. Way too many people are using it and unfortunately Rockstar doesn't give two figs about it. 

[Necromancie]

You all wana pvp fine but dont involve me in it.

I dont like and dont want to be a part of it.

You do what you and I'll do what I want.

[Kean_1]

2 hours ago, Necromancie said:

You all wana pvp fine but dont involve me in it.

I dont like and dont want to be a part of it.

You do what you and I'll do what I want.

Hi Necro and welcome to the forums. 

With that our of the way, this was a Necro bump of a old discussion from 2018 initially about the PvP modes in RDO and some speculation as to how the gameplay would be in the future.  The game was still in beta at that time IIRC.  

Either way, no one is forcing you to play the PvP modes if you don't want to nor is anyone here expecting you to.