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This is the problem. I know a lot of people (myself included) who, just like CosmoKramer, it sounds like, run those two cards specifically to give a chance against the 'random headshotter' (to avoid the term 'griefer'). In fact, the only passive protection you have against those players is Never Without One. Bad people (AKA A$$hats) use the card because it is, all ways up, the most powerful card in the game. I really don't think it's sustainable to argue that NWO use = A$$hat player, unless you're arguing that everyone's an A$$hat. Maybe your actions are self fulfilling? If someone randomly headshots me, and knocks my hat off, I will then go after them until they're dead (usually several times, to make a point). So, we have the following scenario: - I ride somewhere in your vicinity with my usual card loadout. - you see S&S and NWO, and despite me making no hostile move, you decide I must be an A$$hat, and shoot me. - I take exception to being attacked in a random and unprovoked fashion, and come after you, guns blazing. - You feel justified in shooting me, because I'm obviously an A$$hat, you just managed to get your retaliation in first. - I feel justified in returning fire, and in using NWO, because it protects me from (apparent) A$$hats like you who will randomly headshot me while I'm minding my own business. That's no way to live.

Depends on what you mean by glitchy. Stranger missions fail to start more often. I have a wonderful bonding level 1 horse. Server disconnects are a pleasant daily reminder of modem disconnects of the past. I get to complete many daily challenges more than once to get credit for them. Locks up during loading or loads without graphics. I better quit listing as it seams a bit winey? Going to get myself some cheese to go with it.

I must take @Harlock1796 side on this. We usually have at least 2 or 3 posses running at any given time and most if not all have nwo equipped to prevent the one shot grieve kill. Our main rule is the Angels will never ever fire the first shot. If an Angel dies by hostile guns we don't care what your motive is or your fears are your going dirt napping my friend. Believe me !! We bother no one ever ! And again we usually have have at least 14 to 21 guns riding at any given time. Go ahead and shoot one of us because we have nwo. You will receive no mercy my fellow gunslinger. Happy trails !

So anybody that's trying to give themselves the best chance of survival against griefers you shoot on sight? Interesting.

It use to happen every now and than, now it seems to happen way to often. Are players really that soft? It is truly pathetic. As far as you know I could have gotten to my level via shooting cops in St Denis or just by hunting. It is truly annoying that you get voted out immediately when you enter a lobby or when you get MVP or top 3 in a match. Why isn't there a veto option ? Why should I have to go back to free roam and try to find another lobby? If you are that much of a "kitty", maybe YOU should leave to find another lobby. I have voiced my opinion to R* several times already. This kicking feature shouldn't even be an option.

Since the last update, anyone else notice it's become really glitchy in free roam? Has for me.

....meh. I guess it all depends on what he means by "coming my way". I've shot people coming my way too especially when I'm off trail and they make no effort to change course once we appear on minimap to one another. Personally, I don't make a it habit of approaching people so I rarely have problems with being shot (see my etiquette remarks). As for profiling, I don't agree with his logic on that one but I also do it too. If I see a player with a name like IHUNTUDOWN or such, yeah, you better believe my trust level is zero. ....as for mics, I hardly ever talk to randoms in the game world. First, I find most annoying and the comms between my teammates are not as clear as they are when using private chat. I've also had a bad experience with rude folks whether that was through racial slurs/insults, eating, digestion noises, kids, incoherent mumblings, playing music, etc. ....no thanks.

See, you are definitely part of the problem, you shouldnt just blanket say, everyone with an aggressive loadout is my enemy and I will shoot them even if they arent doing anything at all to me, thats just lame. The reason most of us run Ability cards like the ones you mentioned are, for one to upgrade them to tier 3, the only way to level up, is to equip the card and then earn xp while you have it equipped, so everyone is running their cards in free roam so they can level up, others wear them in case they are attacked, and I run them for both of those reasons plus so when I join pvp I am ready and equipped. Just because I have an aggressive loadout doesnt mean you get to shoot me, thats a lame excuse to shoot people. If you took a more civilized approach, the rdr2 world would be a better place. But ok, that is how you play, fine, this is why we ALL have to wait while Rockstar implements a hostility system to protect the community from people like you that act like you do in game. Ive never shot first, ever, and I can tell you, 80% of the time, its just fine, the other 20% were going to shoot no matter what I did. When I am shot at ok worst case is I lose carcasses and stowed animals, thats it, otherwise I re spawn, go back to what I was doing, so there is no reason to shoot first, thats just an excuse maybe because you are bored and want confrontation or maybe you just dont like anyone and you dont have friends and this is your way, more power to you if that is how you want to play, but you shouldnt be making others play the game YOU want to play, leave them alone to play the game they want to play, if they attack you, then have at it, you can go get your revenge, but being an aggressive player makes you part of the problem, at least in free roam. I ve never understood why players chose to hang in free roam and shoot players, just join any one of the many pvp modes, go shoot til your hearts content, many of us use Free roam to craft, level up, buy stuff, explore, etc.. not for killing, the killing happens in pvp, free roam is where I go to get ready for it, clean my guns, load up on ammo, buy something I want to use, etc.. and while I am doing all of that, in this incredible game, I dont need to be shot by a paranoid dude who doesnt like the look of my cards, gtfo. Rockstar gave us this awesome system, free roam is like a huge lobby for pvp, where players can meet up, earn xp, cash, and gold, practice on npc's and find treasures, etc.. and people are ruining this incredible feature by going around needlessly shooting at people just trying to use the game the way it was intended. I love hearing the reasons, your reason is that you are paranoid, and afraid, ok, thats fair enough. I would like to offer you one suggestion, a mic, a free ear bud, or 5$ cheapo, put on a mic, so you can talk to free roamers, it is easy enough to issue a warning, and it works. I have diffused many situations with a mic just by explaining, hey, Im not a griefer, Im hunting, no worries man you dont have to worry about being shot in the back from me, etc... this has stopped a lot of needless attacks and even made a few friends.

I've not been on this forum for a few weeks, or played RDR2 online for even longer, I've just dropped in to see whether R* have finally started to listen and act upon the feedback from people who are being griefed. I see we still have the 'join another lobby' brigade who think that players who just want to play their game in peace should move on , rather than anything being done to stop the griefers wrecking other people's games in the first place. Seems R* are still happy with this state of affairs.

.....which is going to change in the Spring Update so you are able to defend yourself without being penalized/turned red yourself. ......but I know that won't make a difference for some. Like Chris and others, I use the NWO perk as a means of self defense as many do I would expect. .....but then again, I will shoot first when someone appears to be riding up on with purpose while I'm off trail. Rarely had an experience where someone had good intentions in that scenario in the past so I don;t take chances. .....but the whole NWO choice might change as the new update will also include a passive mode that will essentially provide similar protection.

The blip colors doesn't take anything in context. Red simply means players who have killed a lot recently. Purple.. killed some players but not much. Blue.. Barely killed anyone recently. Its got nothing to do with being hostile or griefing. Despite what R* claims. You can get your blip red just by having fist fights with friends. A blue blip player could target you for no reason... You end up killing the player over and over again in self defense, Your blip is now Red.

Well i have nothing against groups joining. Getting my ass kicked motivates me even more to try harder/be better but hey i respect Your opinion.

I feel You there partner. Although im only lvl 112 when i manage to win and be 1st two, three times in a row sometimes i get voted to kick me. Seen that as well on others that have a good day/winning streak. Im not a Pro but im getting better every week. I also think that voting to kick some1 should be taken off. I know after 3 months of play that there are a lot of "kitties" around and sadly a lot of kids playing the game. When i see very good player i want to beat him, not take him out of the game - that is what pussies do.

Yeah, the coloured blips/hostility level system doesn't work at all as blue blips can become red blips through justifiable self defence and red blips can pay to become blue blips with gold. The whole hostility system is a sad joke, it's better to go by your own judgement when another player is approaching you. When RDO first dropped I never shot anyone first no matter how shady/hostile they appeared to be but RDO is more like GTAO than RDR Multiplayer and has a mostly hostile community, there's always someone ready to dome you. Before GTAO I didn't have an opinion on tryhards but after playing GTAO for a fair few years I don't trust them or like them in the slightest and that's why the only people I shoot on sight in RDO are tryhards because they seem to be the only overly hostile/problem players for me at least, anytime I see a player with Never Without One or Slow & Steady coming my way I just shoot them. RDO's first update has been a real shitshow in my opinion so I won't have much confidence in future updates until I see a good one, I don't think the anti-griefing systems Rockstar are including in the Spring update are gonna fix the problems Rockstar want them to, I think these new systems are just gonna make for more problems but I hope I'm wrong.

I won mvp and first on my team today so..... trucking along, lol. I did have the gun act empty experience again, and with a lancaster, and a shotgun, I dunno why, but when I noticed it I just opened the weapon wheel at first it showed 0 ammo, but then showed my actual ammo count, like ti changed quickly, so I dunno just gad I caught it.

I would suggest that not very many people have completed the story mode, myself included. I had read somewhere the percentage, maybe on this page, was really low for completing story mode. Forum used to be cranking, I still meet people in game that have not heard of this site, believe or not!

Lol. I am average at best. I might have a game were I do well but than next game do bad. I like the challenge of playing with people that are better than me. Just like in the gym if I decide to have a training partner, he has to be stronger than me. I want the challenge of getting on their level pound for pound. Working out with someone that is weaker than me will not push me or motivate me in the same way. Same with PVP. Pub stomping is cool and all, but it doesn't make you better at all.

What can I tell you? I don't have any idea what devices folks have out there or what OS they are running. I do know that the app will require a more recent Android OS to run. It didn't work on my previous phone which was about 4 years old. I have no idea about IOS as ih ave no Apple devices. Try it. If it works on your device, then it works. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. .....pretty simple really.

You are 100% correct, I hadnt looked very close, I bought the one "special" saddle you can buy early on in the game for $375.00 and never looked back, I hadnt thought to look back and I figured when I am further ahead and have some cash ill re-visit the saddles, well I forgot, so I went and looked and sure enough I was wrong, so thanks for that. I bought a new saddle that offered the best in drain rates and such until I unlock the level 93 or 94 saddle, I am level 75 so I bought the best one I can get until I unlock the ones at level 94 or whatever. Yes, you guys were correct, I hadnt looked carefully enough, but now that I have I bought a better saddle and stirrups, the best stirrups they had, and the best saddle that was available to me, in another 20 levels Ill buy the best saddle. I had been saving my money to max out my ability cards which all are maxed except for one that I rotate in and out, SB, it is tier 2 and headed to tier 3, all others are tier 3 and I have several, so the saddle thing was a cool break. I had added a card and wanted to max it out but because it wasnt a card I Was going to run all the time it was hard to upgrade it, I had to specifically work on it and thats what I was doing last night, until around 5 am this morning. As per the norm, the one saddle I really liked the look of wasnt the best in stats, the one that was best in stats wasnt my favorite in looks but the game is about advantages and preparation so I had to go with what the made the most sense for my character and his health.

New players find an explosive new adventure when crossing the wrong players.

If I run a stranger mission, I would consider that a "mutual combat' situation. Any problems I encounter when I do that are my problem. You griefing me when I'm spawning in, fishing or running to the butcher with an animal over my shoulder isn't a mutual combat situation.

Just because one gang may be honorable doesn't mean they all are. Look at the O'Driscolls, the Skinners, the Murphree brood. Not everyone is gonna be a good villain. Again, griefing is all down to perspective. Where as I feel I've only been griefed a handful of times, you and many others consider everything short of looking in your general direction as griefing. I've been randomly killed many times for no reason, griefing? Nope. Just part of the game. It's when they go out of their way to follow you around and across sessions is when I consider it griefing.

Not all players chose the honorable path. Some choose the dishonorable one. That is why some missions will not kick off if your honor is too high. Nix that thought. I run honorable but never back down.

Nope, if you remember npc's still do ambushes in online, the gang all through the story says things like, we dont steal from regular folk, hard working normal folk, and they are thieves with honor, they steal from people like Leviticus Cornwall not joe shmoe, Charles and Arthur especially had a lot of honor when it came to farmers, ranchers, etc.. There is no reason to EVER sneak up on a guy fishing and kill them, none, its not honorable, its not necessary, it gives the killer nothing for it, no reason to do it other than to ruin someone elses time, go ambush npc's if you must, or go to pvp where everyone expects a gun fight, if you are one of the people who are an opportunist, and you just shoot at anyone that you happen to come across then you are part of the problem, you are trying to force others to play with you, to play the way you want too and not letting them play the way they want too, that is the behavior of a spoiled kid acting like a brat, bwahh I want it my way and now im going to shoot you in the back just because I like that yay me!! its poor behavior. There are so many examples in the story mode where the characters make it clear they dont ambush regular people, good people people they dont know for no reason are off limits

Interesting how some say they never have any problem with griefers...while some people say they have actually stopped playing the game because of them. I've played this game since it first went online and I have experienced griefing 95% of the time when I'm in free roam (when I play for long lengths of time) unless I play in a glitched solo/passive lobby which I do on a pretty regular basis now. Just because you say you haven't been griefed does not mean that others haven't been. There are people on this forum board that love this game but even they admit that there is griefing and advise people to "posse or weapon up" to avoid them. I guess maybe the way you play the game, you can simply describe it as "the game is about killing." For me and for some others, "the game is about being a cowboy/cowgirl." So, yes, that does probably entail having to kill animals--but certainly not people, especially people who want nothing to do with griefers. One of the reasons I didn't like the offline version is because I felt that, even though I played only a smattering of it, I felt the main character was reprehensible (by the way, as a bit of a response to a poster above, I and some others purchased the game because of the online component, knowing that it would eventually be added to the game). It seems to come as a surprise to some here that the majority of people actually made it thru the Wild West without murdering anyone. EDIT: Of course, one has to understand the definition of both murder and griefing to understand my point.

See that attitude leads to griefing, you said you dont see griefing then you said "Sure there are some ppl sticking a knife in Your neck from time to time while afking ar selling in town but its normal" No, thats not normal, free roam is a place to explore, role play, level up, get your tonics, crafting materials and meats, etc.. play stranger missions, replay story missions, etc.. even posse up and go find other posses that want to fight and have gun fights, sure, but seeing a player not bothering anyone, and going out of your way to shoot them when they arent looking , or sneaking up on them while they fish to kill them is not part of the game, or just how it is, its a choice, and the whole reason we are getting a hostility system. People can have all the fun they want, but as soon as their fun is ruining other peoples time online and it isnt fun for all parties then it is txic and not fun for the player getting needlessly killed. Its a matter of treat people the way you want to be treated, problem is too many people are bored and they actually want confrontation, while other players are newer and do not, they just want to hunt, fish, level up, play missions, etc.. so they can get equipped for the real reason to play this game, the pvp as it gets going more and more, if your playing is upsetting people and costing them time and money by taking their carcasses via shooting them and their horse then its not the way it is supposed to be. Sure there is something to say about the dangers of being out there alone, but at the same time if you cant go to ANY butcher because people are just hanging around them looking for unsuspecting players then the game starts to just suck, only the people doing the ambushing are having any fun, everyone else gets frustrated or just quits, people are literally being chased off the servers and out of the game over it, so whatever your opinion might be, when your behavior impacts someone else in a negative way its not cool. Thankfully by mid June I believe we will have the fully implemented hostility system that should all but eliminate this, some people will always chose to play aggressively and so you will have people to kill and ambush, others will chose to play passively and they will be able to go to the butcher without any anxiety over losing their pelts and carcasses. It is when you see a person coming, you tell them in your mic, hey Im just trying to get to the butcher, can I get in here please? and they act like "sure go ahead" then as you turn your back they shoot you and then run into a mission or another session, these are maybe the most frustrating, and a good example of what we really dont want, I know some players welcome it, now they have something to do and I can totally appreciate that, why cant others appreciate that some went to be left alone and your not a better player because you chose to shoot them in the back and then call in 2 friends to try and spawn kill them for the next 15 minutes, its just lame and sad behavior. I think its great that R* decided to handle it this way so everyone can find a happy medium, if in fact they do implement it this way. Stating an opinion about it one way or the other makes no difference at this point, other than to say things are changing and hopefully for the better.

Yeah, every time I see one coming my way I blast them and I've heard players state all the various reasons why they use those Cards but almost every random player that I've run into with those Cards has been toxic so I can't exactly trust someone with those Cards to be friendly just on the off chance that they're that 1 in 100. I shoot them on sight for the same reason that I would immediately shoot a player on GTAO who came my way looking like this.