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Campaign vs Online


YodaMan 3D
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I started to notice some similarities to how GTA5 when it came out and when the released the Online to how things are playing out for RDR.  Now when GTA came out there was rumors that they was going add campaign dlcs.  Then they changed their minds and focused totally on the Online stuff cause that was where they thought they would make their money.  They DID make some money. 

Now I have heard they're planning dlcs for the campaign, but with the delay of the online stuff, could these get sweeped under the rug for the sake of making money.  Will the campaign be a one and done and then all are expected to go play online? 

I have heard that gaming companies are pushing to get all games to online, so they can keep getting money from gamers and then kill the games when the player base gets too small to keep it going.  Thoughts?

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I heard that they had 3 DLC’s planned for GTA5’s single player campaign, one for each of the three characters. They then scrapped them to focus all their efforts on online. Whether it is true or not I don’t know, but it did seem strange how they had quality DLC’s for RDR1 and GTA4, yet nothing for what was their biggest game yet. 

As someone who doesn’t play online I sincerely hope that they don’t go down the same route with RDR2. I read through the comments on a few of Rockstar’s Facebook posts and it seems a lot of people were pissed about it. The single player fanbase is still strong. 

1 hour ago, YodaMan 3D said:

with the delay of the online stuff, could these get sweeped under the rug for the sake of making money. 

I didn't know online had been delayed? 

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1 hour ago, debbo89 said:

I didn't know online had been delayed? 

THere is no delay.  They announced that online would be released as an open beta in November.  The move to release in beta is likely due to lessons learned from GTAV:O.  R* never announced that it would be released sooner than that and in fact was expected.  R* also has said that they want players to experience the game world in SP first.  They have already stated that they consider RDO a separate component from the campaign but SP is the base for their game(s).  

R* has a healthy focus on single player and has made it known that in a world where others are veering away from it, SP is still very important to them.  The RDR2 campaign is going to be huge so I personally have no concerns that I won't get my monies worth.   ....although I would be happy if they offered DLC at a later date (even an Undead Nightmare 2 perhaps?).

As for GTAV, the devs felt the campaign was robust enough to stand on its own and quite frankly, I agree.  Although I might have liked DLC for the SP in that game, it was also one of those titles I felt I got my monies worth as I had spent many more hours playing than similar games.  

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From personal experiences, I have a hard time trusting game companies.  Their 1st priority is money then if still profitable they may concern themselves with customer needs and desires.  I feel Rockstar is no different, don't get me wrong I love Rockstar games.  The truth of the matter is the industry is changing because the customers are changing.  More players are wanting the online shoot each other for no other reason then to shoot each other. 

Whether or not you feel you got your money's worth.  Is it right to through endless amount of resources towards online play, when many of your fans enjoy the campaign?

I am one who can't count how many times I replayed RDR, just because I enjoyed the story.  I can tell you I only played the GTA5 campaign twice.  Same for GTA4 and did play the dlcs for GTA4 once each.   If they would continue the story, I would have played more.

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The younger crowds are the ones who you'd see on GTA just looking to mess around and screw people over. You will have this in every game. I think the fact that some gaming devs market on this is foolish. It is like rewarding bad behavior. 

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I get the distrust many gamers have toward developers especially these days.  I share those feelings too towards certain companies but to be honest, for me, R* isn't one of them. 

I found RDR's campaign to be long and very entertaining as well as GTAV's.   ......and I have no doubt I will find RDR2 even more fulfilling.  I also look forward to their online component when that becomes available in November as I am sure that will provide several months of fun for my friends and myself.

Where some other game companies have made really poor decisions of late in the quality and direction of their products, I personally don't count R* among them.  They would really have to botch RDR2 for me to change my mind at this point but I think that chance is next to none from what I've seen.   

I know we all have different checkboxes when it comes to what we value in our games but I hope your concerns are put to rest when the game finally releases. 

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7 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

I have a hard time trusting game companies.  Their 1st priority is money then if still profitable they may concern themselves with customer needs and desires.  I feel Rockstar is no different

I was there day 1 of GTA online. It barely even worked. I waited 2 years for heists, and when they came I only ever finished 2 of them. They required a party of 4 at all times in a game where most players are scumbags looking to kill noobs for fun. I was expecting payday 2. I felt duped.

Honestly, when R* says there'll be heists in RDR2 I'm expecting maybe 3 to 5 in the main storyline. Nothing else. I believed them when they advertised heists as a radiant thing in GTA 5. I won't make that mistake again.

And honestly, you're not wrong by thinking their businesses practices with online are scummy. There are PLENTY of game breaking problems that make it impossible for new players to enjoy themselves online. Especially when you consider level 400 veterans butchering level 1 players in helicopters. R* doesn't mind those problems. F the players. BUT as soon as a money making glitch is found -- INSTANTLY FIXED. They can't risk players making money in the game. If they did they wouldn't buy shark cards with their parents money.

These are the things which make me uncomfortable with all the hype I have now. I can't stop thinking about this game, and yet, I was here before -- 5 years ago. And once the high ran off a week into the game I realized how hollow it truly was. Embarrassing. 

I'm HOPING Rockstar realized the massive amount of loyalty and respect (and money) that CDPR got for their pro-consumer practices with The Witcher, and I hope they're taking steps towards implementing those types of pro customer practices in their games as well. That being said, I don't expect it. Too many shareholders demanding a quick profit. And we're seeing them push pre-order bonuses and special editions and $100 MERCHANDISE BOXES (that don't even include the RDR2 game!). Red flags are everywhere.

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@Aimesleje...harsh words...but true nonetheless. I am getting rdr2 mainly  for the storyline, wich was amazing in rdr1. 

Same as you i am not really hyped by the heists in the storyline but far from hyped of the ones in the online component by the same reasons you just exposed. 

As the online component i feel the same way as you. You get online only to find 90% of the players being scumbags that ruin the whole experience. In all these years (as you since day 1) i only had a few moments and far in between where i found cool players to play with, complete missions and heists...

On the other hand i do believe that R* is aware of these situation. I do believe that they are aware that their audience are not only kids with their parents credit cards, but an audience that has grown old and are adults looking for a great gaming experience. I do believe R* knows  their market and their audience and the standards they require as adults that, like myself, go to work, earn our money and pay for a high quality gaming experience...maybe i am asking too much....In a few weeks we'll know. 

Edited by Ibarrola
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3 hours ago, Aimesleje said:

I was there day 1 of GTA online. It barely even worked. I waited 2 years for heists, and when they came I only ever finished 2 of them. They required a party of 4 at all times in a game where most players are scumbags looking to kill noobs for fun. I was expecting payday 2. I felt duped.

Honestly, when R* says there'll be heists in RDR2 I'm expecting maybe 3 to 5 in the main storyline. Nothing else. I believed them when they advertised heists as a radiant thing in GTA 5. I won't make that mistake again.

Heists as a concept were great, and when they worked, even better. But being where I am in the world it took so long for people to join the heist lobby that... and I am not joking here... I have been kicked for inactivity. Good idea, poor application.

4 hours ago, Aimesleje said:

F the players. BUT as soon as a money making glitch is found -- INSTANTLY FIXED. They can't risk players making money in the game. If they did they wouldn't buy shark cards with their parents money.

Absolutely. They are making obscene amounts on shark cards so that's what they are trying to protect. Good practise for them, crappy for us.

 

4 hours ago, Aimesleje said:

I'm HOPING Rockstar realized the massive amount of loyalty and respect (and money) that CDPR got for their pro-consumer practices with The Witcher, and I hope they're taking steps towards implementing those types of pro customer practices in their games as well. That being said, I don't expect it. Too many shareholders demanding a quick profit. And we're seeing them push pre-order bonuses and special editions and $100 MERCHANDISE BOXES (that don't even include the RDR2 game!). Red flags are everywhere.

Yes. I don't normally hack the system but I have to level with everyone, I paid for a modded account for GTAO. It was the only way to enjoy the game. I truly hope RDR2 doesn't put me or anyone else in the position where they have to consider that. 

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I don't think it is a bad thing to have people playing online. I don't think they will pass up the opportunity to drop some campaign DLC on us though either. They can easily charge $15 to $30 for extended game content a pop so there is money in it for them. There will be a fan base that mostly focuses on the online side of the game but plenty of us Red Dead fans will be investing more time and effort offline on the campaign than online.

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4 hours ago, VampireKrush said:

I don't think it is a bad thing to have people playing online. I don't think they will pass up the opportunity to drop some campaign DLC on us though either. They can easily charge $15 to $30 for extended game content a pop so there is money in it for them. There will be a fan base that mostly focuses on the online side of the game but plenty of us Red Dead fans will be investing more time and effort offline on the campaign than online.

I don't know that there will be DLC... Or, at least I don't trust that there will be. DLC isn't as profitable as it was before online microtransactions. GTA 5 was meant to have DLC's. One for each character. They all got scrapped when R* saw the ungodly amount of moolah they could make through shark cards. And to be honest, I genuinely think if RDR2 online get's to that level of success they'll scrap main story DLC too.

This is the burden of being a giant corporation. They can afford to make giant, beautiful and immersive games, but they HAVE to make money for their investors. If they don't, the investors walk away. And so naturally, the bigger a company gets the more calculated it gets in extracting money from their customers. Even if it's by delivering a sub par experience to the customer -- hence GTA online

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16 hours ago, VampireKrush said:

I don't think it is a bad thing to have people playing online. I don't think they will pass up the opportunity to drop some campaign DLC on us though either. They can easily charge $15 to $30 for extended game content a pop so there is money in it for them. There will be a fan base that mostly focuses on the online side of the game but plenty of us Red Dead fans will be investing more time and effort offline on the campaign than online.

Yeah, while other AAA companies have either completely scrapped or cut back on SP elements due to a lack of profitability, R* is still committed to delivering that to their customers.  They still believe in the SP experience, the story telling and the immersion it provides.  There is a fan base for SP games and R* is one of those who still sees a value in producing that kind of content.

R* chose to forego DLC in GTAV, but they also have explained why.  Three major factors at the time included improvements to GTA Online (which was in bad shape initially), the porting of GTA V to PS4 / XB1 and the developing Red Dead Redemption II.   They also felt that the single player campaign was already quite robust as is .  .....and while I would have liked DLC for it, I have to agree that it was a long and satisfying game as is. 

What it boils down to is that they felt GTAV DLC was simply not "possible or necessary" at the time but they have expressed an interest in offering SP DLC in future games.   .....so I think there is a fair chance for RDR2 in that regard.

Personally, I also see nothing wrong with online either.  Whether I end up playing it is another story and will depend greatly on how it caters to a cooperative playstyle.  .....I am definitely not a fan of adversarial gameplay especially in the chaotic form we know in GTAV:O.  All I do know is that I will be playing the hell out of the campaign and I have no doubt it will at least provide me with my monies worth.

Either way, I believe R* has learned a lot from GTAV/O and I would expect that those lessons have been applied to RDR2/RDO.  .....in a positive way.

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3 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

What it boils down to is that they felt GTAV DLC was simply not "possible or necessary" at the time but they have expressed an interest in offering SP DLC in future games.   .....so I think there is a fair chance for RDR2 in that regard.

The thing about that too is that not everyone enjoyed the story or the characters. It had a low "repeat play" value. A lot of people didn't bother even finishing it. I think they realized it was just better to focus all their efforts with online at the point. 

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9 minutes ago, VampireKrush said:

The thing about that too is that not everyone enjoyed the story or the characters. It had a low "repeat play" value. A lot of people didn't bother even finishing it. I think they realized it was just better to focus all their efforts with online at the point. 

I don't know about players liking the characters.  I personally would have liked the extensions. 

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48 minutes ago, VampireKrush said:

The thing about that too is that not everyone enjoyed the story or the characters. It had a low "repeat play" value. A lot of people didn't bother even finishing it. I think they realized it was just better to focus all their efforts with online at the point. 

Well, I can't speak for others but I found the characters fun and amusing.  The whole GTA game world was based on the ridiculous aspects of modern society and then kicked it up ten notches.  I liked Michael and Franklin although I will admit I never felt comfortable with Trevor.  ......always kinda weirded me out.  :lol:

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14 hours ago, VampireKrush said:

I know some people would have but I have heard more backlash than praise. Most praises went to GTA Online. 

I knew more players preferred the campaign, and disliked the online stuff.  Then again I knew more then a few that followed the YouTubers and admitted to me that they used hacks to stay competitive.  Honest players burned out quick and the cheats I was comfortable with playing with. 

When you got players saying that the fool the servers into putting them into more or less their own private server, you got to ask how good the online really was when players avoid actually playing it to it's fullest.

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4 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

When you got players saying that the fool the servers into putting them into more or less their own private server, you got to ask how good the online really was when players avoid actually playing it to it's fullest.

It's no secret. It's got to do with the playerbase the public sessions attract these days and the fact that GTAV nutty, corrupt, self-indulgent world encourages that kind of behavior.  GTAV:O is still wildly successful no matter how you slice it and while some do try to find or create private / small pop sessions (like me), there are still an abundant amount of folks who are in full public sessions.  Apparently, there are even some groups that have cropped up that band together on public servers so they can have a grief-free experience while completing tasks.  

The trick with GTAV:O for folks like us is to play with friends, join friends only sessions or play solo.  The problem I have with GTAV:O is that many of the businesses are tied to public sessions.  You have to be in one in order to complete those missions.  Motorcycle clubs are one of the exceptions.  Having said that, heists and such are still co-op experiences where you don't need to  subject yourself to the "open" world.  

I've had plenty of fun when I was with friends and what I hope is that RDR2 doesn't tie such things to public sessions alone.  A lot of times these missions are hard enough to without having griefers ruin your day. Trolls have an unfair advantage in GTAV:O against those trying to complete missions who stand to lose everything while the griefer does not. 

I said it before, but while I have no doubt RDR2 will have griefers of its own, I do hope that the more "serious" nature of the game has led devs to create a gameworld much less friendly to trolls.  Either way, it will be nice not to have jets and flying cars flying at you from across the map to ruin your day.  ;) 

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