RDR2 Online Idea

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

One could argue that a main reason a civilized society functions is because as a whole the people in that society have an agreed upon set of rules in which they follow. Those that violate those rules suffer a myriad of consequences, depending on the severity of the violation. These consequences act as deterrents to prevent individuals from breaking the rules of society. I think a primary reason for a lot of the indiscriminate killing or “griefing” is because there very limited consequences in the game. My suggestion is to implement a system that punishes individuals that commit crimes, and reward individuals that participate in bringing perpetrators to justice.

The system works like this: If an individual commits a crime, they receive a bounty that increases as they commit more crimes. This bounty can be collected by another individual (or split between a posse) that hunts down and captures/kills (depending on the severity of the crime, etc.). This is where the consequences of actions come into play. If the perpetrator is captured/killed, or log off (to attempt to avoid justice), they lose an amount of money/items/rank (corresponding with the severity of the crime). 

While this system does not eliminate the possibility of “griefers,” it will help deter the indiscriminate killing and/or provide action for those who want PvP in the open world.

Finally, implement this system into three types of lobbies...free aim/universal/passive. The Free aim lobbies system would be the same as the Universal Lobby system except only free aim is allowed. Universal allows individuals to use their preferred aiming and passive does not allow for any killing, etc.

Please feel free to add your ideas!

Edited May 31, 2019 by The Coca-Cola Kid
Font was way too big.

[HuDawg]

5 hours ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

One could argue that a main reason a civilized society functions is because as a whole the people in that society have an agreed upon set of rules in which they follow. Those that violate those rules suffer a myriad of consequences, depending on the severity of the violation. These consequences act as deterrents to prevent individuals from breaking the rules of society. I think a primary reason for a lot of the indiscriminate killing or “griefing” is because there very limited consequences in the game. My suggestion is to implement a system that punishes individuals that commit crimes, and reward individuals that participate in bringing perpetrators to justice.

I think the whole reason why the wild west is fun is because the comes down to lawlessness and surviving.  

But bounty hunting should exist.  Instead of lawmen spawning out of bushes in waves.  It really should be the players that deal out Justice.

Guess we have to see how R* plays it out.  Since bounty hunting is supposed to be coming.

5 hours ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

Finally, implement this system into three types of lobbies...free aim/universal/passive. The Free aim lobbies system would be the same as the Universal Lobby system except only free aim is allowed. Universal allows individuals to use their preferred aiming and passive does not allow for any killing, etc.

I think free aim lobbies need to be Hardcore lobbies.  No offensive/defensive, no ability cards, no blips.    But at this point id take anything without auto aim.

[The_Liquor]

I tend to agree with @HuDawg here. If lobbies become a thing, free aim/hardcore lobbies should be strictly point and shoot no ability card systems.

i also truly hope bounty hunting becomes a thing. If you’re going to kill and steal, you should accumulate a bounty. If another player should catch you (I don’t think it should be a system as simple as just shooting them... perhaps you have to hog tie/knock them out and toss them into a cage wagon where you’ll the. Have to fight off their friends or other bounty hunters and deliver them to a sheriff) the player should get your bounty...

[HuDawg]

8 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

I tend to agree with @HuDawg here. If lobbies become a thing, free aim/hardcore lobbies should be strictly point and shoot no ability card systems.

i also truly hope bounty hunting becomes a thing. If you’re going to kill and steal, you should accumulate a bounty. If another player should catch you (I don’t think it should be a system as simple as just shooting them... perhaps you have to hog tie/knock them out and toss them into a cage wagon where you’ll the. Have to fight off their friends or other bounty hunters and deliver them to a sheriff) the player should get your bounty...

...That does sound like fun.

 

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

I agree with what you both said, but I don’t want the point of the post to be lost, which is there needs to be consequences for committing crimes, more than a bounty because that does not negatively impact anyone. However, for example, having your rank reset to 0 and losing your gear would be real because they would have to put their actual time back into the game to attain it again.

[The_Liquor]

28 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

...That does sound like fun.

 

See.. we can agree once in a while even if we want different things lol

22 minutes ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

I agree with what you both said, but I don’t want the point of the post to be lost, which is there needs to be consequences for committing crimes, more than a bounty because that does not negatively impact anyone. However, for example, having your rank reset to 0 and losing your gear would be real because they would have to put their actual time back into the game to attain it again.

But, the bounty would be a consequence to crime as well as a fun activity to take part in... See, I envision the bounty coming out of pocket. You rack up a $300 bounty and someone catches you, you pay for it. If you don’t have enough you go into the negative. Everything you earn above maybe a $20 cost of living allowance gets taken until you pay that bounty down. However, with this I envision an actual system that allows you to steal from other players as well as banks or stores...

Manx just because the players can catch you, doesn’t mean lawmen don’t come for you. Only you don’t just die and pay your bounty. Only players can collect that.... full consequences for being an asshole, as well as risk for trying to make an honest buck.

[HuDawg]

18 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

See.. we can agree once in a while even if we want different things lol

Honestly.. I think we agree on many things when it comes to Red Dead online.  Its just that one issue really.  

You might as well just side with me on that one issue and increase the power level.. 

[lumper]

8 hours ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

One could argue that a main reason a civilized society functions is because as a whole the people in that society have an agreed upon set of rules in which they follow. Those that violate those rules suffer a myriad of consequences, depending on the severity of the violation. These consequences act as deterrents to prevent individuals from breaking the rules of society. I think a primary reason for a lot of the indiscriminate killing or “griefing” is because there very limited consequences in the game. My suggestion is to implement a system that punishes individuals that commit crimes, and reward individuals that participate in bringing perpetrators to justice.

The system works like this: If an individual commits a crime, they receive a bounty that increases as they commit more crimes. This bounty can be collected by another individual (or split between a posse) that hunts down and captures/kills (depending on the severity of the crime, etc.). This is where the consequences of actions come into play. If the perpetrator is captured/killed, or log off (to attempt to avoid justice), they lose an amount of money/items/rank (corresponding with the severity of the crime). 

While this system does not eliminate the possibility of “griefers,” it will help deter the indiscriminate killing and/or provide action for those who want PvP in the open world.

Finally, implement this system into three types of lobbies...free aim/universal/passive. The Free aim lobbies system would be the same as the Universal Lobby system except only free aim is allowed. Universal allows individuals to use their preferred aiming and passive does not allow for any killing, etc.

Please feel free to add your ideas!

I agree with you BUT since the update, since the addition of passive mode, I have not had a single incident, I had two close calls, and one guy who stole my stowed bird so I shot him, but no actual griefing like before the update.

I actually park ,my horse in Valentine and walk down the street and do my business and not worry about a thing.

Edited May 31, 2019 by lumper

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

Same here, I’m just throwing out more ideas to try to make the game even better.

[The_Liquor]

I honestly have had very few problems since the update. The few I have run into had mostly been legitimately trying to steal my stuff, which I can actually live with. I had one guy shoot me because, as he said, he’s tired of being shot for no reason... it was just an excuse to justify being an ass as far as I could see (and I told him as much which threw him into a temper tantrum). One other guy shot me and then ran to a race... he was low enough level to have barely cleared the story mission, so I can give that one a pass. But two minor encounters over a couple weeks compared to more than that in an hour I’d say something is working.

[lumper]

Absolutely, griefing is all but gone, there are still a lot of people willing to do it, but if you are in passive mode hunting and fishing or searching for treasures, etc.,. you should  have no troubles

[HuDawg]

14 minutes ago, lumper said:

Absolutely, griefing is all but gone, there are still a lot of people willing to do it, but if you are in passive mode hunting and fishing or searching for treasures, etc.,. you should  have no troubles

Its the same as its always been really.  And there is no passive mode..    Only difference is defensive mode blocks auto aim and lassos'.  And the blips make it harder for people to find players to creep up on.   Also, theres no doubt that explosive ammo has also thinned the bottom feeders too.

Nothings really stopping me from killing someone fishing..  Defensive mode doesn't prevent that.

 

[DylBandit]

I just think if you don't want to be bothered, just put on passive mode. I know that the passive mode isn't completely bulletproof, but if R* ever changes it so you can't be killed whatsoever, I think it will help those who just want to hunt and do other things besides getting into gunfire with randoms. 

[lumper]

5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Its the same as its always been really.  And there is no passive mode..    Only difference is defensive mode blocks auto aim and lassos'.  And the blips make it harder for people to find players to creep up on.   Also, theres no doubt that explosive ammo has also thinned the bottom feeders too.

Nothings really stopping me from killing someone fishing..  Defensive mode doesn't prevent that.

 

Well, I disagree, it is NOT the same as it always has been, not even close.

Usually prior to the update, anytime I ran into or passed another person, they generally took a shot at me, if I went to town to the butcher it was a challenge, now I can park my horse, walk down main st Valentine and do my business and not have any problems at all, so I dont consider that the same at all.

I know about defensive mode, I call it passive mode, but ok whatever, semantics.

It is hard for a new player with only a carbine to shoot you when they cant lock on, and once they shoot at you can lock on to them, not to mention they are massively outgunned.

It just doesnt happen anymore.

There are some new A holes that try to get close to you, but they cant lasso, or much else, so to me, the game is free of all the BS that made it unplayable,

the occasional person shooting at me or my horse or stealing an item off my horse or whatever will pay for it, and there isnt much they can do about it. not to mention consequences, if your level 7 and have to pay for shooting people.

Anyway the game is very diferent than it was 8 weeks ago. and I am glad.

 

[Kean_1]

50 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Its the same as its always been really.  And there is no passive mode..    Only difference is defensive mode blocks auto aim and lassos'.  And the blips make it harder for people to find players to creep up on.   Also, theres no doubt that explosive ammo has also thinned the bottom feeders too.

Nothings really stopping me from killing someone fishing..  Defensive mode doesn't prevent that.

.....and once again, no one ever suggested Defensive mode would stop griefing completely. 

Just because someone can, it doesn't prove the whole concept of the feature falls apart and is useless.  I also see no escalation of griefing as you predicted nor did I see a trend after the proximity blips were introduced when we all had this discussion before.  Quite the opposite in fact.  Rockstar never sold the feature as a passive mode and anyone who uses it in such is only setting themselves up for failure. 

For people like @Netnow66 looking for a truly passive/protected experience, he's not going to be completely satisfied with this direction.  However, for those of us just looking for ways to mitigate the unprovoked / indiscriminate killing, it seems a lot of us are finding the new features helping in that respect to some degree or another.  ......even Netnow.

Personally, I have yet to be griefed since the new defensive option was implemented even when I purposely let my guard down a few times just to see what would happen.  There have been a couple times I thought I/we might be attacked only to have a an relatively quick and uneventful experience.  

Sorry to say but it's not the same as it's always been in my experience and those of others who have shared theirs.  You keep talking about those "bottom feeders" as if they make no difference.  Well, they do IMO/IME because if those are in fact the only ones being affected as you say, it seems they must have been the majority of the problem. 

19 minutes ago, lumper said:

I know about defensive mode, I call it passive mode, but ok whatever, semantics.

I have to disagree.  It's not semantics as "passive" usually denotes an option where the player is immune to attack.  Defensive is nothing like that.  It provides some protections and options in the event you are attacked/killed, but is not a passive mode.  You still need to take precautions and adjust your playstyle and even then, there is still the possibility of being attacked and killed. 

[HuDawg]

13 minutes ago, lumper said:

Well, I disagree, it is NOT the same as it always has been, not even close.

Usually prior to the update, anytime I ran into or passed another person, they generally took a shot at me

 

Just because you personally have not been killed much doesn't really mean anything, since players can still kill you.. It may have been the complete opposite for others.

For me, nothings changed. I get shot at now a bit less as I did at the start of the beta.    But that's mostly due to blips being less active.

 

 

[lumper]

Ok, to clarify, myself, everyone I have talked to and the people I play with, our experiences has been the game is a lot better in terms of random attacks, I didnt mean to speak for everyone.

I havent seen the level of player killing that I experienced over the past 8 to 10 weeks since the update, that is my experience.

whether you call it passive mode or defensive mode to me it is just an anti griefing measure put in place and it seems like it has worked pretty well, at least for me up til this point.

 

[HuDawg]

3 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

.....and once again, no one ever suggested Defensive mode would stop griefing completely. 

 

 

I never claimed an esculation of griefing.. I claimed griefers would use everything added to their advantage.  And that's true.  Problem is, some of you confuse bottom feeders with griefers..    But as I've always said, there is no such thing as griefers.     They are just players killers.. Some of them are idiots and some of them are highly skilled killing machines.    

Thing is this, I don't care if someone is in defensive mode, nothing can stop me from launching 50 explosive rounds up someones ass when ever I feel like it,,   And that's the bottom line.

 

 

 Also I was replying to this comment.  Which, as you said. Its not passive mode. And I was pointing that out.

 

1 hour ago, lumper said:

Absolutely, griefing is all but gone, there are still a lot of people willing to do it, but if you are in passive mode hunting and fishing or searching for treasures, etc.,. you should  have no troubles

 

 

[lumper]

Well your right, if you are determined to kill players you can def do that, I just dont see it in practice, I guess I am lucky, 

IF someone is that determined to kill players for no reason then so be it, but at least it isnt as easy as it was, there are consequences, and the attacked player can retaliate without incurring a bounty or any trouble or effecting their characters honor level.

Have you been attacked by try hards, griefers and bottom feeders much since the update or are you one of those and just pointing out that you can still do it and do?

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by lumper

[lumper]

Also, I wonder how different the game is in this respect on PS vs Xbox?

Like I see many griefing videos, and I noticed most I watch are PS4 players, I suppose it is pretty evenly split to be honest, but just now I was thinking, I wonder if it is or if it is worse/better on one or the other.

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

8 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Thing is this, I don't care if someone is in defensive mode, nothing can stop me from launching 50 explosive rounds up someones ass when ever I feel like it,,   And that's the bottom line.

You are 100% correct, which is why there must be real consequences for those that choose to do it, e.g. you lose start back at Rank 1 and/or lose all your hard earned gear/progress IF you are caught or killed after the act. While it may not deter all indiscriminate killing, it should definitely make someone think twice before they engage in it.

Edited June 1, 2019 by The Coca-Cola Kid

[HuDawg]

2 minutes ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

You are 100% correct, which is why there must be real consequences for those that choose to do it, e.g. you lose start back at Rank 1 and/or lose all your hard earned gear/progress. While it may not deter all indiscriminate killing, it should definitely make someone think twice before they engage in it.

Except, as I always point out.  It can be used against you. 

Which is why, losing gear and progress would be a huge over step.

 

Back on topic..  What would be awesome is a Survival mode.  With one life, strictly free roam, start at level 1 when you die, no blips, no auto aim, where you can either kill someone and loot everything or tie them up and loot everything.  You need to eat to stay alive..

That would be pretty nuts.

Edited June 1, 2019 by HuDawg

[HuDawg]

7 minutes ago, lumper said:

Also, I wonder how different the game is in this respect on PS vs Xbox?

Like I see many griefing videos, and I noticed most I watch are PS4 players, I suppose it is pretty evenly split to be honest, but just now I was thinking, I wonder if it is or if it is worse/better on one or the other.

PS4 is basically, more players more problems.  More kids..more assholes.

[OGTKCole]

11 minutes ago, lumper said:

Also, I wonder how different the game is in this respect on PS vs Xbox?

Like I see many griefing videos, and I noticed most I watch are PS4 players, I suppose it is pretty evenly split to be honest, but just now I was thinking, I wonder if it is or if it is worse/better on one or the other.

I play the game on both consoles and the "Griefing" is definitely equal on both PS4 and the Xbox One.

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

19 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Except, as I always point out.  It can be used against you. 

I apologize, but I don’t quite follow what you mean...Would you be willing to elaborate how one might use that against another?

[HuDawg]

3 minutes ago, The Coca-Cola Kid said:

I apologize, but I don’t quite follow what you mean...Would you be willing to elaborate how one might use that against another?

Well, just off the top of my head.   The 1st reaction toward a hostile/annoying player player is to kill them..  So now, if the game doesn't consider you the aggressor at a specific moment when dealing with certain players, you kill someone and you end up losing rank/gear.

So you will get real griefers.. Who actually know the ins and outs of the game mechanics.  Trying to get players into a situation where they end up being the aggressor.  Just to make them lose all their gear and ranks.

 

 

[The Coca-Cola Kid]

9 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Well, just off the top of my head.   The 1st reaction toward a hostile/annoying player player is to kill them..  So now, if the game doesn't consider you the aggressor at a specific moment when dealing with certain players, you kill someone and you end up losing rank/gear.

So you will get real griefers.. Who actually know the ins and outs of the game mechanics.  Trying to get players into a situation where they end up being the aggressor.  Just to make them lose all their gear and ranks.

 

 

I follow you now. I agree that it would require some strong game mechanics to correctly identify the aggressor in some situations and that no matter what, there is no way to stop people who are just in it to ruin other people’s day. 

[The_Liquor]

I’m with @HuDawgon this one... resetting to rank one and loss of everything is way to harsh a punishment for a random killing and very well could be used against someone (or all to easily accidentally triggered when you push a wrong button and shoot/stab/choke someone instead of wave... maybe I’m clumsy, but I still do this time to time).

however, an accumulating bounty, which could get quite high, payable out of pocket even if you have to go into the negative once a player catches you. Or perhaps so many real life days stuck in the prison (one day for every $100 you can’t pay perhaps... and only counting when your actively online).

actually, the prison thing could be fun as well, if done right. Maybe some missions or activities that can only be accessed while serving an active sentence.

[Moosh89]

1 minute ago, The_Liquor said:

I’m with @HuDawgon this one... resetting to rank one and loss of everything is way to harsh a punishment for a random killing and very well could be used against someone (or all to easily accidentally triggered when you push a wrong button and shoot/stab/choke someone instead of wave... maybe I’m clumsy, but I still do this time to time).

however, an accumulating bounty, which could get quite high, payable out of pocket even if you have to go into the negative once a player catches you. Or perhaps so many real life days stuck in the prison (one day for every $100 you can’t pay perhaps... and only counting when your actively online).

actually, the prison thing could be fun as well, if done right. Maybe some missions or activities that can only be accessed while serving an active sentence.

You can wait for your posse to get online to try to break you out LOL

[lumper]

1 hour ago, OGTKCole said:

I play the game on both consoles and the "Griefing" is definitely equal on both PS4 and the Xbox One.

Thanks for the input.

Again, since I am not seeing any griefing, player killing, cheap shots, etc.. anymore I wonder if the difference is in our play styles.

I avoid situations where you might find trouble, I dont ride up on others, I dont show up at hideouts and jump in when someone is clearing them, I dont look for people or trouble, if I find people I dont run away but I also dont look for people or get involved with them unless it is to stop a delivery, or other missions based activity.

It seems some people are seeing the same behavior from others as before and I cant help but think it is just the way they travel through through the map and the way they approach things?

I dont know of course, I am only speculating, but to me there is probably some reason for the player killing people you are finding.