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I gain nothing? I gained EXP for every time I put ya down. I gain the stuff you spent time grinding for. You spent 30mins hunting that deer.. I got it in less than 5 minutes from taking it from ya. Plus I gain actual game play experience when you can’t let it go and try to come after me. So yea I gained a lot. Seriously you need to seek help. I am not talking trash. You’re probably the type to rage quit games that you can’t figure out or beat and resort to destroying your things. Its all within the rules of the game. If something is irritating you then why even play? Maybe its time to move on? When I am just terrorizing other players and a posse comes in to save them.. do I cry about how the hero posse stopped the bad guy? Hell no.. they have their job and I have mine. I already stated running from npc lawmen is pretty easy.. actual players in a challenge.. PvP show down series is fine but its all confined into one space.. i can’t run away and lure people into a terrain that will work to my advantage. Its a better cat and mouse game. Strawman arguement? Lol ok.. I guess you still haven’t figured out how the game is played. I am done with ya. I would say have fun and enjoy the game but looks like you won’t cause there aren’t rules in place to let you do what you want. I know I am playing it how I want to and loving every bit of it. Call me crazy but why are people complaining about a game where you have to kill and steal from others.. and when it happens to them in the game they get butt hurt about it.. 🤨

I got a posse invite and accepted. I rode to join the posse in the first thing that happened? I got roped and dragged. Maybe it was an initiation I don't know. So I initiated some music from my pump shotgun. 🤣

I have asked the same question before for other games. Amongst most of them the answers these I felt most honest. 1. Boredom. I got everything, done everything, still enjoy the game. All I got left to do is keep others from doing what I have, cause I didn't find it challenging enough. So I am doing them a favor so they can enjoy the game more. 2. I am playing the game as intended and you aren't. The Devs designed so I can grief you, you don't like it leave. 3. I like the sound of your whine. 4. I want to see how many players I can personally get to quit playing. 5. You can't stop me. If my griefing you was an issue, you would stop me. It's really your fault, not mine. 6. This is a PvP game and you are a PvE player, that means you ruin the game for me. 7. This is my personal favorite and in response to me stating that I read an article about players' actions in a game is a response to how they are in real life. So I quote, "Because I am a psycho bent on your destruction. It's your fault I kill you in the game, I can't help myself." IMHO, I think most griefers have had it done to them and see it as they have no choice. If they want to continue playing games they like. Unfortunately, it changes them and how they view games. They eventually grief to avoid someone else to the punch. You know the old shoot 1st and ask questions later. There is no honor in playing PvP cause most players have no respect to their competitors. They don't want to face off beat you in a fair fight, when they know they will lose more often then they can win. They also usually put it on their targets as if it's their fault. For example, The Division perfect example. The DZ was The End Game, a PvEvP zone. PvP players would avoid actually PvP battles and focus on PvE players. Insults, swearing, the whole nine yards. When the PvE players stated the best PvE in the game was in the DZ and they couldn't enjoy it, cause a PvE build was useless in PvP. The PvP players continued with insults. So PvE players started leaving the game in huge numbers. Those who stayed had few options on how to enjoy the game. So Ubi/Massive started adding things to keep them interested, but would do nothing to give them the exact same experience in a PvE DZ like zone. In that regards, the stood by the PvP players allowing them to bully and pick on part of the playerbase. They never did anything to support the PvE players in the DZ. They just called them sheep, but constantly keep doing things to entice them to go to the DZ for rewards. Now Ubisoft is allowing Massive to make a sequel for The Division and allowing the same YouTubers test it. Then claim it will be a game for everyone. They haven't changed a thing and when I left those forums, the same people was still arguing about PvP and PvE. The PvP players don't want the PvE players to have a safe mode where they can enjoy the game. Those same players need those PvE players so they can effectively play PvP in their minds. So to me, I have seen and discussed with Griefers, that will intentionally complain about how bad PvP is, yet they will run from it, change servers just to find those who don't want it. Then brag about how great they are at PvP.

Last night on YouTube I saw a comment from a guy sick of being attacked by griefers ..... the first reply was "Awwww, who hurt you? It's just a game!!!!!' Now that is a griefer comment. There is it appears a certain level of deeply confused machismo attached to griefing, it is little boys wishing to be men . This why all the cat calling straight from the play ground... they think they are genuinely tough. They think this is how men act.... grown men do not act like that boys It reminds me something an acquaintance told me, he was an instructor for the new entry British Army Para Troopers "They haven't been let out for 3 months , they have just got their wings and are let out...... So they go down the local town and the local boys beat the crap out of them... These young para's mistake being fit the for the first time in their life, with being tough" Just because you have a digital gun in your hand does not mean you should inflict your presence onto someone else ... other people are NOT there to entertain you, infant. So be good little boys and keep to yourself or only attack people like yourself... you know, idiots

And here's hoping they will eventually be found..

Right! I think its fun. I been hunting and had someone headshot me taking my goods. I just laugh and now its on. It is what it is. Its the wild west alright. I hunted birds and a guy came up to hunt birds also. Everything was cool.. i saw another pink dot headed towards him and figured it was his posse member. I look over and the guy who showed up had him hogtied. I shot the other guy and we both chased him away.. then went back to hunting birds. After about 15-20mins I shot him to take his birds but still lol.. if someone is chasing you all around the map then yea thats a douche move. If we are passing each other and I pop ya.. just let it go.. the moment you try to chase me down cause you can’t let it go.. its a fued now..

Finally last cut scene is heartbreaking

I hope Gavin is somewhere online . Just hope he didn't get any of that lumbago, nasty business.

So, further to your victim blaming justification, you now add the further justifications, 'it's happened to me' and 'it's a game.' Do you understand why these don't function very well as justifiers for a morally questionable act? Let's consider an unspecified act, X, which we know causes some small degree of loss of goods and negative emotional response in some people. Would be OK to do X based on the following: they are too fragile and shouldn't get upset; but someone did it to me; it's only a game? I don't think you've thought through your ethical position here. Edit: addition - your phrase 'come to terms with' being griefed implies your initial response was an emotional negative that you had to rationalise - which raises the spectre of hypocrisy with calling others too fragile to play the game.

Oh, I see. So it's the victims fault. My bad. If you have been hunting for half an hour, collecting high value pelts and carcasses, and then I kill you whilst you are in a skinning animation, and thus you lose the benefit of your actions for the past 30 minutes, then if you feel the slightest twang of annoyance you are fragile and should not play the game. Gotcha. Well, although we may have to agree to disagree on whether such behaviour and opinion is immoral, selfish and dispicable, at least I hope that you are not a hypocrite, and that should you ever feel any negative emotion whatsoever next time someone interferes with your gaming you will leave RDO forever. But even games can have real world effects on people?? For example, let's say I was able, somehow, to delete all your RDO saved data right now, would you be ok with that because 'it's just a game' and 'I can?' If not, then you must justify your hypocrisy, for killing someone who then loses pelts (data) is the same principle, just a lesser degree, like the difference between giving someone a paper cut or a punctured spleen (both are wrong, just one is worse).

Yeah limit is 10 bro, I've maxed out a tonne of the awards and none of them seem to go past 10.

It’s got elements of my name and I like Coca-Cola.

Yeah, it dit that with me too, so I gotta assume the limit is 10.

Hey Guys, new poster here but been playing RDR2 both Story and Online for a while. Came across this thread and felt compelled to comment as I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of folks indicating their annoyance at "Griefing" within the online portion of the game. Without giving away my age I have been gaming online for around 15-20 years in some form or another and I've never seen such a raft of "Gamers" who are intent on causing misery for the majority of online players. I'd hoped that given RDR2 is not your typical run 'n' gun shooter that we might get fewer trolls/griefers in game and have more of a strategic, co-op, live and let live style experience but it seems like even the Old West ain't safe from over privileged 12 year olds with guns! Anyway, hopefully I'll see some of you guys online.....promise I won't shoot you while you're at the General Store 😉

Roll on the private lobbies when we can be free of the detritus. When I played it online this other player lassoed me, hog tied me, plonked me on the back of my own horse and then she rode off. Thought that was quite funny tbh.

One can only hope that they do this sort of thing to distract themselves from some agonising illness.

Well the reasons someone would grief are 1000's : The main one will be : I get XP and enjoy pissing other people off and it is within the game's confounds. I get really sick of people defending griefing with this is the wild west and I am an outlaw. If people actually behaved like that back then the USA would have 1/4th the population it has nowadays and would most likely be without any cities... Outlaws didn't run around just shooting people, they were in it for the money or property.

Well in free roam there are players that are actually running around shooting each other. Why shoot the player dealing with a merchant or a butcher?

Yeah... There's death matches and stuff for a reason..

Exactly the same here... I never start it, but when things happen expect me to constantly harass you until you either leave the game or politely says sorry for disturbing my peace. Normally they don't expect a reaction and I got a few whiny messages from those kids about me going overkill. "Dude I killed you once!" YEP, that was you telling me it's ok to kill you how many times I desire aswell.

I only do it when it is being done to me, like targeting the person who is doing it. Otherwise, I mind my own unless it is part of a scenario where we are fighting over something. Like two gangs going at each other. If you are just targeting people by themselves who are just fishing or hunting, for no reason... You must be really bored.

....and you thought I was joking around?

OK, but why do you choose to do it?

Why do people make memes or laugh at the expense of others? Some people just get enjoyment out of it. Like I do enjoy a good trolling on my friends and family but I can't just do it to strangers, it feels weird.

Adolescent sociopaths raised on instant gratification from pressing buttons on phones and controllers, participation awards, standing on their (anti) social media soap box crying foul about every knee jerked emotion. Parents that take the easy road and shut little Johnny/Suzie up by giving them a $800 phone at 13 years old, instead of the kid earning it through work. Hence now they have no sense of value. Parents don't discipline and find a doctor to label them with something that makes it ok for Johnny/Suzie to act like total animals and get away with it. ADD and all the other labels were around when we were cave men, except back then you had better get a grip on your shortcomings or someone else will smash you in the face. (I think we are all born with these labels, what matters is who cared enough about themselves to overcome and control them.) I call it no parenting through over parenting. We have been raising generations of victims that can't deal with anything once the weight of the world crushes them when they move out. If they move out. Many of these adolescents I speak of are approaching 30 years old. These are my thoughts of why players can't respect one another online. Here's a quick test to see if your one of these adolescents; If you ever say out loud to yourself or others more than once a day "I'm bored". Think about it.

When I played online I asked griefers why they were constantly killing me. I got the usual responses , those mentioned above. When I politely I asked one of them why s/he was doing it his response was 'stfu you pussy'. I'm not one for reporting people to MS usually, but this idiot was asking for it. My last message, before I blocked him/her was 'If you get sanctioned it was me who reported you'. A week later I got a message saying from MS saying they'd taken action against the person I'd reported. I don't know what action they took, but hopefully it was a suspension and at least one griefer being forced to take time out and reflect on his/her behavior.

In my opinion, this is the best game ever made for me. Honestly, I feel rockstar could have made it even better but was probably too worried to go too far with the slow pace bacause of guys like the poster here. Honestly, I have always wanted a game where you actually pull physical items from a bag one at a time, or loot a house by grabbing things one at a time. I feel like this is the direction they truly wanted to go and yeah, they achieved that but probably not as much as they or i wanted. I am totally satisfied, dont get me wrong, they have to cater to a large group of people to get the money for a game like this but i think i would enjoy even longer skinning animations with the chance to speed up to the type we have now, instead of how some large animals kinda cut to different sections of the skinning process to keep it quicker. I would rather take 10 puffs off a cigarette than one and toss. I'd rather see our character actually take off his coat and store it when swapping outfits on your horse. Honestly I cant even complain at all, I enjoy every aspect and approach made by rockstar with this installment. I feel like they cut a few things to speed up the pace but the game still leans toward the slow,calculated, realistic side of things which is totally against the grain in a world where instant satisfaction and having things given to you for nothing reigns supreme.

Whaaat? Whaaaat does this even mean? Theres nothing overly complicated about this game. And the pace of the game is up to to the player. You can't complain about not making 'progress' if you stop playing the game. IMO this is the best game i've played in years.

I had been playing Destiny 2 for several hours ... 8yr grand daughter arrived for a visit, I stood up, she saw the rear of my trousers which were all wrinkled, she announced loudly, "grandad, you have a wrinkly bottom" .. my teenage grand son immediately said it would be a great GT for me ... eventually Wrinklybutt was suggested, added the "Sir"

Real life emotional loss?? Did you lose your house in real life cause I took you deer in a game? Family left ya cause I took your fish? If something that happened to you in a game is causing emotional state issues and your real life situation to go to crap then maybe you need to seek serious help and stop playing. A game shouldnt be dictating your life. Seriously if thats the case please seek help. I get hunted down by people in the game. After I turn off the game I go to doing my daily business. Its just a game. Its not going to drive me to drinking and losing sleep cause I couldnt do this in a game or someone owned me over and over. Like I said before in many comments. The issue is you can seperate real life and game life.. what happens in the game stays there. What happens at my real job stays there. People have a hard time seperating..

Your analogy suck btw.. if your community hall has rules to prevent Jed from being an asshat the sure you’re right.. but the rdr2o world doesn’t have those rules.. the game is about cowboys and outlaws.. you’re getting upset over something the game allows players to do. Think about that. If the game was setup to where outlaws were hunted more and punishment such as losing money or shoot on site when you enter a town would people still do it? I know I would. I want other players and npc to hunt me down. For some people the outlaw part of the game is what we like. Having to run from the law and staying alive. if by deleting my account you are hacking to erase it.. no thats not within the game. If you want to act like a lawmen and kill me which then takes say money from my character then sure I am ok with that. Anything thats allowed in the games minus cheats/glitches I am all for.. if you want to set up a special icon that comes up for me and force other players to come after me to collect a bounty then go for it. I am game. If I lose money for everytime I am caught. I am game. Like I said before, I am playing the game and my character is that crazy outlaw like you see in movies. I take out everything even NPC that are in my way. If they want to set up a friendly mode where everyone who just wants to fish and hunt has a honor icon and can’t aim at each other is fine. Outlaws with have the dishonor icon and can aim in on everyone. If you want to switch it makes you wait a few minutes. That way everyone knows what everyone’s intent is right off the bat. The issue isn’t “greifing”. The issue is people can’t seperate themselves from the game. You want this perfect little candyland with sun shines and rainbows. Which can all be had if you stick to story mode, but you want to venture out into online world and expect everyone to live by your rules and not what the game allows. Maybe not knowing what other players intent is thats making the game harder for people. Like my icon idea. If you see my dishonor icon near ya, you would know whats about to happen as to just a red dot coming up on ya and you wait to see why.. only to be headshot right off the bat. I can see how that would annoy people. Its the unknown part that results in you getting shot that sucks and brings ya down.. but when that unknown just passes by.. you get that he is cool and up feel that some people aren’t bad..

Happens to me, I've been killed when my horse is loaded but I understand that it's a game and that people may kill you for any reason at any point so I come to terms with that and play accordingly. Get off your high horse.

Nah I'm sorry but if you are that fragile you should stick to single player. It's a game with a PvP element, most of the organised games/activities are PvP based.

Why do I do it?? Cause I can.. I enjoy riding up and just dropping another player for no reason.. I enjoy taking their hunt.. I am an outlaw.. its what we do.. Do you want to be a jedi or a sith? A deputy or a outlaw or general population? Just to be fair.. I pick a spot in a map and anything in my way or area gets put down. From animals to npc to players.. my goal is to put down more people than the pleague.. I want my rep on the game to be known as the best gun in all of new hangover.. Don’t give me this crap about thats not how you are in real life crap.. its a game.. I am playing a game as an outlaw that wants to ride into town and have everyone scatter and hide.. if you want to play as a deputy and go after “griefer” then by all means.. To all these “anti griefer” posse.. bring it..don’t act like you are untouchable..

Yeah, I'm that guy on the saloon roof in Valentine shooting you at the butcher. Sorry, but not really.