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Online Still Being Written...


DiamondDave
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I didn't see any article about new information regarding RDO but you do realize it's still in development, right?  It won't release until November and even then it will still be in beta.  .....so as a beta what will be represented in the gameplay we see at that time will still not be the final product.  

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At this point it should be wrapping up development.  Still writing it at this point would be nuts.  Then again I did read an article where they have been making employees working 100+ hours a week to get stuff wrapped up for next week.  Which is nuts in my opinion.  It isn't the 1st time that Rockstar has been accused of slave driving their employees to meet deadlines.  Makes me respect the employees for their efforts, not so much for Rockstar.

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I believe he is referring to this article:

https://www.pcgamer.com/red-dead-redemption-2-is-60-hours-long-online-component-still-being-written/?utm_content=buffer32241&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw

 

Where the article states: 

As for Red Dead Online—which, assuming RDR 2 does eventually hit desktops, is what I'm most looking forward to—scenes for this are still being written, even as they are being shot in Rockstar’s mo-cap studios, says Vulture. On that, Houser says: "We want it to be as robust as Grand Theft Auto Online, once it’s found its feet creatively." 

Edited by DylBandit
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I would assume that Red Dead Online is finished on a base level and the continued work that they're doing in terms of motion capture and writing is for future Red Dead Online DLC updates, GTA Online had a number of DLC updates that required Rockstar to bring in actors for further motion capture and voice acting work.

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20 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

At this point it should be wrapping up development.  Still writing it at this point would be nuts.  Then again I did read an article where they have been making employees working 100+ hours a week to get stuff wrapped up for next week.  Which is nuts in my opinion.  It isn't the 1st time that Rockstar has been accused of slave driving their employees to meet deadlines.  Makes me respect the employees for their efforts, not so much for Rockstar.

Personally, I could care less how they get it done.  "Crunching" is simply a part of life in most of the gaming industry but it's usually select departments or people who are there for the final push in the last couple of weeks (not throughout development).  

This also isn't some third world country where people can be treated as slaves.  There are rules, laws and choice.  I worked for a large corporation for 30 years and in various industries like mine was they do the same thing to push out product for end of month sales, reconciling budgets / accounting, inventory, meet project deadlines, etc., etc.  and a lot of times that is on a consistent monthly and/or quarterly basis. ......I'm sure these these folks would wish it was a once every few year deal.  I've been on the receiving end myself back in the day but it was a good paying job with good benefits, good people and room to grow.  If it hadn't have been, I would have been looking for other employment. 

Either way, I know some will choose not to accept any explanation R* provides but Dan Houser mentioned what he was talking about was mostly about his senior writing staff (including himself) during the last 3 weeks.  .....and that it was not something he expected from everyone else:

Quote

 

"There seems to be some confusion arising from my interview with Harold Goldberg [in New York Magazine]. After working on the game for seven years, the senior writing team, which consists of four people, Mike Unsworth, Rupert Humphries, Lazlow and myself, had, as we always do, three weeks of intense work when we wrapped everything up. Three weeks, not years. We have all worked together for at least 12 years now, and feel we need this to get everything finished. After so many years of getting things organized and ready on this project, we needed this to check and finalize everything.

More importantly, we obviously don’t expect anyone else to work this way. Across the whole company, we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they’re passionate about a project, or their particular work, and we believe that passion shows in the games we release. But that additional effort is a choice, and we don’t ask or expect anyone to work anything like this. Lots of other senior people work in an entirely different way and are just as productive – I’m just not one of them! No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard. I believe we go to great lengths to run a business that cares about its people, and to make the company a great place for them to work."

 

I have no reason to disbelieve him and R* as given it's employees approval to talk about the working conditions with anyone who reaches out to them (which some already have with positive and some negative feedback).

Having said that, not all employees in a large company like that will be treated the same depending on their own managers, directors & VPs and opinions about their situation/ experience will vary.  Some bosses are simply jerks while others are just the opposite.  .....that's true in any large business.  I've worked for all types to be honest and while some can make your life hell, others can make it a real pleasure.  ......and this was all under the same roof.

.....but whatever makes a good story I guess.  I just want the game.

 

 

EDIT:  Seems my posts were merged.....  The following is in response to the OPs original point that the writing is still in process for RDO and has nothing to do with the above discussion about "crunches", etc.:

Here is a link to the source article from Vulture.  It's hard to tell when Hauser made the quote about still writing for RDO but it may have been back in August if you follow the timeline of the article.  .....I didn't read the whole thing.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/the-making-of-rockstar-games-red-dead-redemption-2.html

Edited by Kean_1
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8 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

At this point it should be wrapping up development.  Still writing it at this point would be nuts.  Then again I did read an article where they have been making employees working 100+ hours a week to get stuff wrapped up for next week.  Which is nuts in my opinion.  It isn't the 1st time that Rockstar has been accused of slave driving their employees to meet deadlines.  Makes me respect the employees for their efforts, not so much for Rockstar.

God that sounds awful. I hope you get massive bonuses and such for that. I would not want to be working for them on a 100 hour work week. There is only 168 hours in a week... that leaves you with 9 hours a day... enough time to sleep and shower. Sheesh...

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This is my personal opinion. 

If you want to work for a top company, who not only cares about their games, but innovates the gaming industry, you have to work harder, and faster than anyone else PERIOD. Rockstar employees know this very well, and I'm sure their pay is outstanding.  Bottom line, work sucks, and nothing good comes easy and simple. If you want to be the best in the industry and set world records, you have to put in the time and effort, and the people at Rockstar work hard as a team. 

Do I think Rockstar abuses their employees by working hard? I think Rockstar pushes the absolute limits to make a great game, and I hardly see any company do that, thus making Rockstar the top gaming company in the business right now. Developers know, being a Rockstar employee automatically gives you a good reputation on your career, and if you put the time and effort and make a very big hit game, and your apart of it, your reputation will be even bigger. 

Also, as much as it may suck, the employees have a right to quit, they aren't forced into staying with the company. I'm sure the pay is worth it, or else they wouldn't sustain a great time, because at the end of the day, business is business. Quality comes before anything when making a product, and successful companies know this (Rockstar). If you make a bad quality games, the company will then slowly suffer, and you will only destroy yourselves (Call of Duty). 

Edited by DylBandit
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I think the whole 100 hour working week thing has been taken totally out of context. 

I read this article where employees came out on social media to have their say about it which basically confirms that any overtime is optional and they are paid for it. 

Source: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-10-18-rockstar-allows-employees-to-speak-out-on-100-hour-week-controversy 

I guess its like any job that you are passionate about, you are prepared to put the hours in needed to get the job done. 

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16 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

Here is a link to the source article from Vulture.  It's hard to tell when Hauser made the quote about still writing for RDO but it may have been back in August if you follow the timeline of the article.  .....I didn't read the whole thing.

The whole thing is part and parcel for working in a production environment when you're up against a deadline.  I worked for a media company that was producing content in the past, and I routinely worked 36-48 hour shifts when we were up against it, but that would literally be once every three or four months, and not a regular occurrence.  They'd feed us, let us sleep on couches, and we'd get paid overtime for it, so there really wasn't much to complain about it.

Those are also offset by entire months of regular to light duty, especially in a ROWE (Results Only Work Environment).  If anything, the need for a crunch at the end of production is the result of poor planning by the project manager, who clearly didn't build in enough time into the schedule, or create a realistic, workable timeframe to begin with.  A good project manager anticipates those things, and has the power and blessing of upper management to initiate corrective measures and actions against team members who routinely under-perform or miss project goals.  I've seen entire projects bogged down by the actions/incompetence/apathy of ONE individual.  A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, so it takes a project manager with tremendous vision to prevent things like crunch sessions from being a necessity.

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1 hour ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

The whole thing is part and parcel for working in a production environment when you're up against a deadline.  I worked for a media company that was producing content in the past, and I routinely worked 36-48 hour shifts when we were up against it, but that would literally be once every three or four months, and not a regular occurrence.  They'd feed us, let us sleep on couches, and we'd get paid overtime for it, so there really wasn't much to complain about it.

Those are also offset by entire months of regular to light duty, especially in a ROWE (Results Only Work Environment).  If anything, the need for a crunch at the end of production is the result of poor planning by the project manager, who clearly didn't build in enough time into the schedule, or create a realistic, workable timeframe to begin with.  A good project manager anticipates those things, and has the power and blessing of upper management to initiate corrective measures and actions against team members who routinely under-perform or miss project goals.  I've seen entire projects bogged down by the actions/incompetence/apathy of ONE individual.  A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, so it takes a project manager with tremendous vision to prevent things like crunch sessions from being a necessity.

Just an fyi....   That part you quoted me on with the link was regarding the OPs original point about the writing still going on for RDO.  Looks like a moderator merged two of my responses together.

......but yeah, I agree in those scenarios how crunches could be avoided by good planning and a coordination of effort.  I just find it funny that the media and some folks make a big deal out of this in the gaming industry when it's a fact of life in a lot of other businesses.

btw, I worked with my fair share of good and bad project managers.  The good ones usually knew a lot of the answers already, understood how each department worked, knew all the key people they could call upon to get results and had the drive to keep the ball rolling.  .....the bad ones, not so much.  😄

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If you check the #RedDevRedemption hashtag on twitter there are loads of tweets from devs saying it's busy and there's pressure but they're not forced to do anything, and the 100 hour week, forced or otherwise, is nonsense.

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12 minutes ago, Benjo said:

If you check the #RedDevRedemption hashtag on twitter there are loads of tweets from devs saying it's busy and there's pressure but they're not forced to do anything, and the 100 hour week, forced or otherwise, is nonsense.

Yeah it's been nonsense pretty much from the start, the public is known for taking a situation and making it bigger, especially when they  have a chance to make a bigger conversation on the internet. Also, those guys make huge money and their reputation in the gaming industry just keeps getting bigger and bigger, it's a win win if you think about it, even if you have to work hard at Rockstar. 

Edited by DylBandit
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Don't get me wrong here, but ............................Rockstar has been working on this game for roughly 7 to 8 years.  There shouldn't have to be 100 hours of work required per week.   I have had those jobs where I worked 100+ hours because deadlines was coming up.  You can't really play the whole Rockstar is the superstar of the gaming community, so it's ok for them to over work their employees for the sake of the game.  Especially when they have 7 years to go this done.   Logically there shouldn't have to be a big push at the end, when this should have been planned and there should be no unexpected surprises.  This isn't Rockstar's 1st rodeo and this isn't the 1st time Rockstar has be accused of over working their employees. 

I expect a great game because of all of the hardwork and I am sure people aren't chained to their desks till everything is done, but at this point Rockstar shouldn't be in this position where they have to over work anyone.  They know the game too well.

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On 10/22/2018 at 6:34 AM, YodaMan 3D said:

Don't get me wrong here, but ............................Rockstar has been working on this game for roughly 7 to 8 years.  There shouldn't have to be 100 hours of work required per week.   I have had those jobs where I worked 100+ hours because deadlines was coming up.  You can't really play the whole Rockstar is the superstar of the gaming community, so it's ok for them to over work their employees for the sake of the game.  Especially when they have 7 years to go this done.   Logically there shouldn't have to be a big push at the end, when this should have been planned and there should be no unexpected surprises.  This isn't Rockstar's 1st rodeo and this isn't the 1st time Rockstar has be accused of over working their employees. 

I expect a great game because of all of the hardwork and I am sure people aren't chained to their desks till everything is done, but at this point Rockstar shouldn't be in this position where they have to over work anyone.  They know the game too well.

I think Rockstar was pushing the release to get it here early because of sales. If a company waits to long, their money earned from their previous game starts to eventually fade away, and then the company needs to make more profit. 

Yeah Rockstar takes their time, but they can only do that to an extent before they have to start making funds again. With the release of Red Dead Redemption 2, they have more funds to pay workers, and run the business. I think that's why they may have pushed the game a little early than expected. I don't work at Rockstar, this is just my guess, a gaming company eventually has to make a release to keep people paid, and keep the business going. If Rockstars funds were infinite, I think the game would of took a little longer to release, so they can properly polish everything without hurrying, and release the game with Read Dead Online, because we have to wait for that feature during November and December, which is very unfortunate, but at least we can play the game now. 

Edited by DylBandit
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