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The Law/Bounty systems are SEVERELY FLAWED


Lucixir
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So, I have been playing this game since it was released Thursday night and the HUGE ELEPHANT in the ROOM is, OMFG this law/bounty system is beyond terrible. I cannot believe how insanely lopsided, unfair and downright stupid it is. Did anyone BETA test these systems at all? I mean seriously, someone actually thought these were working as intended?

With that being said, let me also state that I am also a believer in Justice type systems but not so lopsided that it is beyond unfair and makes no sense. I'm going to give many scenarios to explain my points about how flawed this system is, I'm sure many of you can relate and possibly have more insane stories to share about it.

For a bandit/Outlaw game, this sure makes it impossible to try and attempt any of that play style not to mention quests automatically putting you into it ALL THE TIME. 

#1:  You walk around town, people are constantly rude to you and just looking to get into a fight or anything to annoy you... with complete IMMUNITY. No matter what happens, you will be blamed for it. Someone start kicking your ass because you walked by, lawman on the spot to blame you and gun you down. Did you walk too close to someone? unarmed assualt, Lawmen after you...

#2 You try any petty crime anywhere in the world, guess what? There is always some type of witness within 10 miles that will always blame you for it and you guessed it, the law will be on you and bounties placed on you.

#3 Your horse look at someone the wrong way? Reported, lawmen killing you.

#4 a million other stupid little things that you arent doing anything yet the law is called on you and bounties instantly placed on your head.

 

Bounties... the amount is insane compared to how little money you have access to or can acquire in the first 100 play hours. 300-2500$ instantly on you... and guess what, as you get killed all the time from this, you will get a death penalty and the damn bounties are still on you. WHAT? Died 10 times, lose 10x the bounty money already? Doesnt matter, bounty stays... The limited quests you have happen to be in an area where you are wanted? Either you cant do them and progress or enjoying dying a lot more because of it.

Did you happen to kill 50+ lawmen who were hunting you down and respawn in the area in a matter of seconds? You wont get to loot very much and the few that you do dont have much money items to put a dent into those Bounties at all.

Speaking of looting, why do these bodies disappear so fast? It takes forever to loot 1 thing yet they decay insanely fast.

I just do not get how this law/bounty system was put into place and decided that it was working very well. The trade off and severity of anything in this game is beyond rational.

Imagine the sentence of everything in real life being death + bounty on your entire family until they can pay it off.

Jaywalk? - Death
Punch someone in the face? Death
Shoe not tied? Death
Car driving too slow or fast? Death
Someone in another city think of a crime - you are automatically accused and punished for it. No evidence needed, it was you.

I have every mask in the game as well.. and guess what, they do absolutely nothing in concealing your identity or preventing bounties/lawmen on you like white on rice.

So after this time, I am stuck in an endless loop of being killed by an unjust legal system and being blamed for anything and everything in the world happening. Top it all off, I can never accumulate any money because I owe 300-5000$ in every sector of the map some where, although I've been killed many times for my supposed crimes, they just keep killing me until I can someone accumulate the money to pay of the bounties that I owe.

 

Come on Rockstar....really? This is the legal/bounty system you release and feel justifies the game?  There is absolutely no balance to this insanity. Sucks there was no difficulty level to start the game off with, now I'm stuck in a nightmare mode of lawmen above the law looking to solve any problem by killing you, over and over and over....over...over - all the while racking up your bounty in the process.

Edited by Lucixir
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Bounty Hunters shoot on sight, but law men will allow you to surrender if you aren't "Wanted: Dead or Alive".  You'll spend some time in jail and they'll take some of your money.  Of course, my bounty was $15 for stealing a horse, $5000 may be a different story.

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Just now, Magnus Drow said:

Bounty Hunters shoot on sight, but law men will allow you to surrender if you aren't "Wanted: Dead or Alive".  You'll spend some time in jail and they'll take some of your money.  Of course, my bounty was $15 for stealing a horse, $5000 may be a different story.

They don't take some of your money, they take all of your money and the bounties never go away. Lawman will tell you to move along and if you cant get out of the red circle within their small timeframe, they open fire. Do anything in this game to defend yourself and it's treated as all your fault.

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Keep your eye on the wanted notifications.  If someone reports you and you were not clearly identified, they ran across a dead body, etc., the law will investigate.  ....this is all mentioned in the message box that appears.  Masks do help and so does changing outfits to help reduce your wanted status.  .....although any bounty will still be there.   The system is more complex this time around.

DO NOT shoot at lawmen unless it's a last resort.  That will hang a "dead or alive" status on you.  When you give up, make sure you're weapon(s) holstered and use the dialogue button to surrender.  They don't take all of your money.

Don't commit crimes in populated areas, don't stick around when you're spotted (unless you can catch the witness without other seeing) and don't piss people off.  Use the dialogue options if people are rude and back the hell off.  You have the option most times to "diffuse" in the dialogue when people are antagonizing you.

Make an effort to boost your honor level in town.  Talk to the population and you'll find they become more friendly, give you better prices in stores, etc. 

I have to tell you.....   I've been in town plenty of times and it's not a matter of walking on eggshells.  You need to be smart about it.  Don't ride fast through crowded streets because if you hit someone hard enough with your horse, you will get a bounty (assault charge I believe). Plus, it pisses off the townsfolk when you ride too fast.  Walking or just a smidge faster if your best bet.  

I avoid rival gangs in town when I can and if I do get in a scuffle, I make sure that it's only fists.  .....I've won a few fights with no consequences as long as you stop in time (don't kill the opponent).  ....but rival gangs will usually draw weapons and it's best just to avoid them or get out of town asap before the law gets on your tail.

btw, if you think there will be trouble, call your horse so its nearby in case you need to make a hasty getaway.  Posses and lawmen are easy enough to spot on the minimap as there will be a red glow in the direct that they may be coming from.  Simply run the other direction or (in my case if they are a posse), I will get to a defendable area and pick them off.  I've had some satisfying gunfights and running, exchanges of fire with posses.  

I've played quite a few hours so far and have only had 4 bounties placed on me. The first was an accident.  The second was animal cruelty as I threw a throwing knife at a cat (thought it was a varmint.  The third was me being stupid and assaulting someone who pissed me off.  The last was from a mission and scripted so I had no choice.  .....almost ready to pay off that $300.

Personally, I'm enjoying the new bounty system and it's added complexity.  Once you understand it, it's easy enough to stay or get out of trouble.  Oh, and stay out of the territories where you are wanted if you're constantly being harassed there.  ......at least until you can pay of the bounty (which can be done at any rail station in the game world).

Edited by Kean_1
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@Kean_1You haven't played enough to know what I am talking about yet. I though it was fun at first as well and many of those triggers I am very familiar with now. 

Missions constantly force you into those situations, when I was sent to help someone it ended up not only breaking him out of jail but it also forced me to kill everyone law office in town and those that came in. Good ole 300$ bounty from a forced rescue mission to progress the story along. I got no money from that mission either and that 300$ has been there ever since.

You cant keep stopping all witnesses, because most of them didn't witness anything, yet you are blamed. Investigating is just another term for, give us a few moments while we blame this on you. This gets annoying very fast, especially as they blame and hold you accountable for serious crimes that you didn't do and make you wanted/bounty.

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I echo mostly what Kean 1 says.  It's mostly about playing careful and cautious.  

The two biggest problems are:

1) accidental crimes - often through me pushing a wrong button (user error) and drawing my gun, hitting them with a horse, or aiming at someone I meant to talk to etc.  It's annoying because the complexity of the controls make this a semi-regular occurrence, but I have just learned to play more slowly, be more careful about what buttons i press in towns, and as I get more used to the controls it'll get better.  Dont ride through streets, walk slowly, keep guns holstered etc - what Kean says :)  If I do make a terrible error, I just reload a previous manual save and start over (I strongly suggest regular manual saves because of this issue).

 

2) high bounties - yeah the bounties (esp after story missions) can be high.  But not crazy, nor unplayable.  To pay off the story $300 one, for example, I stopped doing missions for a couple of hours, just sold almost everything I had, and hunted for a bit plus robbed a couple of people without getting caught.  Took about two hours (starting from about $10 and a bunch of regular items) - and although irritating, I enjoyed the hunting and exploration and found all kinds of stuff while doing it.  then went to post office.  Bounty cleared, job done. :)  I now try to keep a bounty reserve fund in cash on me - about $100 - as I go, to make paying bounties off quicker and easier.

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14 hours ago, Lucixir said:

@Kean_1You haven't played enough to know what I am talking about yet. I though it was fun at first as well and many of those triggers I am very familiar with now. 

Missions constantly force you into those situations, when I was sent to help someone it ended up not only breaking him out of jail but it also forced me to kill everyone law office in town and those that came in. Good ole 300$ bounty from a forced rescue mission to progress the story along. I got no money from that mission either and that 300$ has been there ever since.

You cant keep stopping all witnesses, because most of them didn't witness anything, yet you are blamed. Investigating is just another term for, give us a few moments while we blame this on you. This gets annoying very fast, especially as they blame and hold you accountable for serious crimes that you didn't do and make you wanted/bounty.

No, I've actually played quite a lot over these past few days since release and enough to understand how the basics of these mechanics work.  Remember that one bounty I mentioned that I was subjected to due to a mission?  That's the same one you are discussing above.  I just didn't want to reveal any details in case other folks haven't reached that stage yet.

The difference I suppose is that I escaped as soon as I could.  I left the region where the bounty was active.  I actually had a memorable shootout with my pursuers crossing the river.  .....shot the remaining ones from the other side of  the river bank.  ....one floated down river, it was pretty cool.  

Anyhow, this is what I was talking about.  You can't hamfist this game or bully your way through.  .....but it is still survivable as long as you understand how the bounty mechanic works and how you can work your way around it.  In this case, I stayed out the region until I could collect the $300 to get the bounty off my head which I was able to do in the same session by selling high value items to a fence, a couple skins, herbs and tonics to the doc, etc.  $300 is a lot and I already had about half of that when I caught the charge.  The balance wasn't hard at all to collect to be honest.  

I'm actually into Chapter III now and played around a lot in the open world so yeah, I got the gist of how the game works.  My experience with the game mechanics simply don't coincide with yours.  I welcome the added complexity of this new bounty system personally.  If you know how it works, you can mitigate the chances of being identified, reported, captured, etc.  I don't however agree with your narrow assessment as it's simply not what my experience has been. 

All I can say is that unless you change the way you are playing, you're not likely to have a very fun experience.  I have tried to help you with that but it seems it's falling on deaf ears.  .....c 'est la vie.

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7 hours ago, Poggy said:

I echo mostly what Kean 1 says.  It's mostly about playing careful and cautious.  

The two biggest problems are:

1) accidental crimes - often through me pushing a wrong button (user error) and drawing my gun, hitting them with a horse, or aiming at someone I meant to talk to etc.  It's annoying because the complexity of the controls make this a semi-regular occurrence, but I have just learned to play more slowly, be more careful about what buttons i press in towns, and as I get more used to the controls it'll get better.  Dont ride through streets, walk slowly, keep guns holstered etc - what Kean says :)  If I do make a terrible error, I just reload a previous manual save and start over (I strongly suggest regular manual saves because of this issue).

 

2) high bounties - yeah the bounties (esp after story missions) can be high.  But not crazy, nor unplayable.  To pay off the story $300 one, for example, I stopped doing missions for a couple of hours, just sold almost everything I had, and hunted for a bit plus robbed a couple of people without getting caught.  Took about two hours (starting from about $10 and a bunch of regular items) - and although irritating, I enjoyed the hunting and exploration and found all kinds of stuff while doing it.  then went to post office.  Bounty cleared, job done. :)  I now try to keep a bounty reserve fund in cash on me - about $100 - as I go, to make paying bounties off quicker and easier.

@Poggy

Yeah, I did the same thing a couple times.  ....ooops, wrong button.  I once opened up on the butcher in Valentine on accident. He didn't die but I think I was charged with assault.  I escaped, payed off the bounty and returned.  It took a while but the guy kept busting my chops about "not wanting any trouble", etc.  I built up my reputation with the town though and get good discount / prices now.

I quickly learned to take things a little slower as well (good point).  ....also on the manual saves.  I've had to restore once before and it saved me some grief.

The $300 bounty from that mission was the highest I've had so far.  I don't want to give anything away but other missions I played after that were not nearly as much.  ......actually a lot lower than expected.

I too have been keeping a reserve of cash on me.  I've already upgraded all my weapons (the ones I could unlock), my horse, saddle, etc.  ......so I'm tucking away some cash for bounties and other items I can buy in the future as they become available.

I've had tons of fun so far.

 

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Couple of things regarding this:

 

1.  The criminal system is in fact flawed but not to the point of what the OP is talking about.  You can actually get into a fist fight and as long as you don't loot the NPC you beat up, then you're fine.  I have done this time and time again.  Anytime someone provoked me I waited until they threw the first punch and then I destroyed them.  Just don't shoot them.

 

2. The problem I have is when I see a murder happen at a camp along the road and I go to investigate myself.  The aggressive NPC will then challenge me and pull out his gun, he starts shooting me, I kill him and then if a passerby sees this, he flags ME for murder instead of letting me explain what happened.  This is a problem.

 

3. I setup myself on a ridge with a sniper rifle and was shooting at this one passerby that was VERY far away.  One shot in the head and killed him.  His friend (who couldn't possibly know where I was) started investigating and about 30 seconds later I was flagged for murder and then 10 seconds later I had 6 lawmen behind me waiting on horseback.   That was ridiculous.

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20 hours ago, Lucixir said:

[WORDS]

Hyperbole much?  The system works fine.  It's a bit... strict, but it works. 

38 minutes ago, ghostpro71 said:

One shot in the head and killed him.  His friend (who couldn't possibly know where I was) started investigating and about 30 seconds later I was flagged for murder and then 10 seconds later I had 6 lawmen behind me waiting on horseback.   That was ridiculous.

That's on you.  ALWAYS kill the witness, too.

18 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

don't stick around when you're spotted

This one got me on one of the raid missions.  I won't go into specifics, but I lingered at the raid site too long looting, and suddenly, I was like Butch without Sundance, holed up in a cabin with nowhere to go.

7 hours ago, Poggy said:

accidental crimes - often through me pushing a wrong button (user error) and drawing my gun,

That's a button layout issue, and R* is to blame.  It was idiotic to have the "interact" toggle (L2 on PS4) be the same as the aim button.  Look, I don't ride my horse unarmed; O'Driscolls are constantly riding out to ambush you.  I've had at least half a dozen instances of trying to talk to someone that ended up becoming a fight because I pulled a gun unintentionally.  Once I'm in a town, I always manually switch over to bare hands to avoid this, but only a fool rides through the wilderness unarmed.  For God's sake, there's 

Spoiler

Hillbilly Cannibals

out there roaming in the woods.

16 hours ago, Lucixir said:

You haven't played enough to know what I am talking about yet.

Omnipotence must be a heavy burden, bro.

45 minutes ago, ghostpro71 said:

Just don't shoot them.

BOOOOOOOOOOOORING!  Ol' double barrel shotty to the dome is much more satisfying.  That's how I handled the drunken Frontiersman in Valentine.  They're still scraping his brain matter off the ceiling of the bar.

 

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@BropolloCreed79,

About killing witnesses.  I had a funny thing happen to me in the mountains....

I ran across a campsite that appeared to be abandoned so naturally, I began collecting items from it (donning my mask as a precaution).  As I was looting a box I heard a dog approaching.  .......oh, crap.  Seems the owner had been out for a walk and discovered me looting his belongings.  He ran off as I chased him but I lost him in the trees.  I ran back, continued the looting as the dog incessantly barked.  

Well, one thing led to another and two dudes happened across the scene.  .....I forgot I had my mask on and they asked what was going on (with guns drawn).  I tried to diffuse the situation with no luck so I took them out.  After that, it was like digging myself into a hole.  Was dumping the last guy off a nearby cliff and yet another comes along.  After having to dispatch 3 more unlucky travelers, I decided to just grab my horse and make make way off the mountain as fast as I could.  

......never got a wanted level or a bounty on my head even with the original witness getting away.  

 

Edited by Kean_1
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8 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

......never got a wanted level or a bounty on my head even with the original witness getting away.  

Sounds like someone followed my advice:

38 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

ALWAYS kill the witness, too.

20 hours ago, Lucixir said:

Did you happen to kill 50+ lawmen who were hunting you down

 

Yes, and then I bathed in their blood and offal.

Edited by BropolloCreed79
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Sorry but "Always kill the witness" is garbage when you're so far away from them that you HAVE to use a scope to headshot them.  Trust me I was far away.  You could only really see them with binoculars zoomed in or a sniper scope.

And to be even more realistic, I only fired 1 shot.  That was it.  But they still knew it was me.  How could they possibly know it was me, let alone the lawmen were behind me on horseback in 10-15 seconds.

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The game must play different for some then others.  That is all I can say.  I had a bounty, paid it, came out of the building and walked into a NPC.  Got a Disturbing the Peace bounty.  No investigation, just a bounty.  I couldn't just run back in and pay it either.  I have been out hunting, fired my gun and got a bounty.  Got jumped by a rival gang, killed everyone and no witnesses.  Yep, no cops, no witnesses, but walked away with a hefty bounty.  Rode into town, committed no crime, had no bounty at the time, and they killed my horse, I fired back when I got a chance.  Yep, got me a bounty.  The bounty system is harsh and I have had one somewhere, somehow regardless of where I have been.  Then robbed a house, no bounty, no witness.   Rode away with a bounty.

Now to be fair, we are suppose to be the most dangerous gang this side of the Rio Grande.   So you can't say watch out for the triggers, when there doesn't seem to be any in many of the situations.

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Just now, YodaMan 3D said:

The game must play different for some then others.  That is all I can say.  I had a bounty, paid it, came out of the building and walked into a NPC.  Got a Disturbing the Peace bounty.  No investigation, just a bounty.  I couldn't just run back in and pay it either.  I have been out hunting, fired my gun and got a bounty.  Got jumped by a rival gang, killed everyone and no witnesses.  Yep, no cops, no witnesses, but walked away with a hefty bounty.  Rode into town, committed no crime, had no bounty at the time, and they killed my horse, I fired back when I got a chance.  Yep, got me a bounty.  The bounty system is harsh and I have had one somewhere, somehow regardless of where I have been. 

Now to be fair, we are suppose to be the most dangerous gang this side of the Rio Grande.   So you can't say watch out for the triggers, when there doesn't seem to be any in many of the situations.

See the only thing I really want fixed is when you're defending yourself. 

If someone starts shooting me or holds me up to rob me, and I fire back and kill them, I don't want to have a damn bounty.  That's just stupid.

LET ME DEFEND MYSELF FFS.

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Saying the system is flawed is a mere understatement of how broken it really is. Just today, I've ran across a few more things, 1 that even cost me losing my legendary horse out of all things.

1. Defending yourself does and will get you wanted/killed. You may win some fights and just get told to move on, but many of these fools will die or run into a horse and die or fall off something and die. Guess what, you are to blame - murderer.

2. Killing witnesses? LOL, killing one leads to another which instantly pops a bounty party right on you with no warning. They can out ride you, out shoot you, knock you off your horse while riding full speed. This just happened to me and I received the lovely message "You have abandoned your legendary horse" - no I didnt, I was killed and re-spawned with a default stupid horse. I had to run back and repurchase my horse and start him from level 1 again.

3. Many missions force you into crimes and depending how they go, especially not knowing all the options, you will get flagged/bountied a lot. This has happened to me on many occasions. Cant loot things fast enough before new people show up to kill you. If you wait it out for them to leave, all the things you could of looted are now gone.

Now, to make things interesting... I went and spent all my money before trying to turn myself in to remove bounties and also test out other things. Much easier to test things with nothing to lose than before with 200-500$ hard earned money.

Killing people out in the middle of no where, no witnesses or anything. This will cause Bounty parties to be instantly spawned at your location. 6 mounted horse instantly shooting at you. You die much faster than you could kill them, even trying to use dead eye. (the rare times I got away with it were rare, not even sure how it happened to show how rare it ever happened)

Trying to rob people with or without mask, you always get blamed for it, maybe 10% of the time I could get away with it for a bit. I have like 6 masks, no way they could be remembering every single mask.

People starting fights and gun fights with you... really sucks to be dying and have nothing else you can do besides kill them to make them stop which makes you a murderer. No idea why other NPC's in the game dont report the actual aggressor...

Big part of the system that is flawed: Not correctly identifying the aggressor or allowing defensive abilities. This makes the system really suck for anything you do.
Many of the things I do isnt just running around shooting people or trying to play GTA style in this game. I never played much of GTA nor RDR1 so much of this is new to me. Much of it wasn't explained and Ive had to learn the extreme hard way, which is what eventually motivated me to come here and starting bitching about it. Judging by the posts, it isnt hard to see that there is definitely a problem with it regardless if you believe all my encounters or have experienced them yourself yet. Chances are, you will eventually and think back on what I said than maybe understand the frustration. Hard to take it all in when it hasnt happened to you yet or to the extreme but it will. Many people have experienced much of this flawed logic system already, maybe some are more tolerant towards it but just wait until it continues happening and causing them wasted time, much hard earned $$ and just game play experience.

Until then, I've found it easier to just go raise hell, collect as many items for cash as possible and have no money on me before turning myself in to waive it off. There isnt any better way around it, it's unforgiving and many times outside your control when it happens.

Edited by Lucixir
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13 minutes ago, Lucixir said:

"You have abandoned your legendary horse

Had you bonded with him enough to obey commands or stabled him yet?  Genuinely curious.  I know that when I'm going on an actual job or mission, I either take one of my gross, basic horses, or steal a new one while stabling my old one.

2 hours ago, ghostpro71 said:

Sorry but "Always kill the witness" is garbage when you're so far away from them that you HAVE to use a scope to headshot them.

Maybe, but you didn't HAVE to kill the first guy to begin with.  Actions have consequences (even if they're unrealistic).  I've murdered half of Valentine in one spree because I stayed in cover and moved strategically--but I only do stuff like that after saving in a non-autosave slot first. I do the same thing when I find Legendary gear or animals, because the last thing I need is to lose my stuff when getting ambushed.  

Out in the wild, why wouldn't you get closer if you were going to indiscriminately kill a passerby?  There's a "witness" 99% of the time, and if there isn't one immediately, one ALWAYS rides up.  I've never encountered more than two witnesses consecutively when out in the wilderness, so it's not that difficult to tie up a loose end.  In a city/town is another matter, but out in the middle of nowhere?  Kill EVERYONE if you have to.

21 minutes ago, Lucixir said:

Defending yourself does and will get you wanted/killed.

Most of the time, they warn you to walk away first. if you stick around THEN they fight/open fire.  There's a PS Trophy for earning the maximum amount of "honor" or whatever the "nice" scale is.  Once I do that, I'm going to burn that mother down, but it's not hard to walk away from most encounters that get you into trouble in the first place, especially if you aren't riding through town like a drunk.

As for the other times?  You're in an OUTLAW GANG.  These things happen--you're SUPPOSED to earn bounties and evade the law.  This isn't "Care Bear Stare: The Game" this is Red Dead Redemption 2.

2 hours ago, ghostpro71 said:

holds me up to rob me, and I fire back and kill them, I don't want to have a damn bounty

I could be wrong, but a deadeye shot to disarm them doesn't incur a bounty, if I recall correctly, or if it is, it's a relatively minor one.  Do NPC's hold you up in towns, or is it in the wild?  I"m only on Chapter 2 because I avoid Dutch (that guy is a worse leader than Hue Jackson) and his missions, so I'm doing everything else that I can first.

 

2 hours ago, ghostpro71 said:

LET ME DEFEND MYSELF FFS.

I do this by popping domes with the sawed off Shotgun--consequences be damned!

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It's weird, but although I still get the occasional accidental issue as noted above, I've been managing to get away with a lot of killing lately, plus looting, with no witnesses at all - right in town.  There was no one obviously around, it was dusk, but two guys started a fight, they drew, they got shot to death.  Not even an investigation.  It really does seem to play differently to what other people are reporting.  Might it have something to do with honor level?  Or location?  Or just pure luck?

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3 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

The game must play different for some then others. 

Maybe.  .....but beyond some of the hyperbole remarks about the bounty mechanic, there are ways to mitigate the chances of being spotted, recognized and caught. 

One example is a recent encounter I had with two dudes about 50 yards off of the main road.  They were trying to open a safe with a sledge hammer that I'm assuming they stole.  I rode up to them and they promptly told me to move on.  I backed off a few yards into the tree line and waited for them to bust it open.  I came back out and they engaged me.  I shot both of them.

Before I began looting, I put on my mask.  While near the wagon with the safe I had a notification that a witness was investigating so I took cover behind the wagon. I didn't see where he was at first but then I saw him slowly ride by on the road looking in my direction.  I waited until he was gone, the message disappeared and I ran off with their stuff. 

I have also engaged gangs who have ambushed me on the roads, taken out their camps, etc.  and I never get a bounty in those cases.  However, I have had the law called on me if I engage gangs or aggressive strangers in town with weapons.  ...whether it was my fault or not.  The exception is fist fights as long as I don't take it too far.  I even pursposely led two hoodlums out to the street in Valentine, knocked out one and then let the other pursue me into the Sheriff's office (just to see what would happen)  I proceeded to fight him as well and knock him out.  The Sheriff made a remark during the fight like "that's enough" (or something to that effect) but did nothing to me.  ....I walked out.  If I had looted him or hit him once more I am sure there would be a bounty and the sheriff would have tried to take me into custody.

When fist fighting, the screen will flash momentarily when you knock them out. IME, if you continue to throw blows beyond that point, you will be flagged.

I really don't think it has anything to do with chance.  Their are triggers in the programming and (for me at least) it was just a matter of figuring them out.  ....although I will say that I think that the witness detection seems to stretch further than it should at times.

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On 10/30/2018 at 5:26 PM, Kean_1 said:

I backed off a few yards into the tree line and waited for them to bust it open.  I came back out and they engaged me.  I shot both of them.

You can buy a lock breaker for 25$ that lasts forever, so you don't have to wait for them or when you steal coaches yourself, you can always break them open.

I wrote the original post and have been playing since it was released trying many many different things and I can assure you, the bounty/wanted system is severely messed up. You will see as you get into similar situations and many others where you didnt do anything wrong or someone around a mountain witnesses you out in the middle of no where and a part of 6-10 bounty hunters instantly spawns on you shooting you off your horse and owning you.

Same with Lawmen - anyone sees blood or something in town, if you are 2 streets over, you get blamed for it some how and they after you with bounties all of a sudden.

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1 minute ago, Lucixir said:

You can buy a lock breaker for 25$ that lasts forever, so you don't have to wait for them or when you steal coaches yourself, you can always break them open.

I wrote the original post and have been playing since it was released trying many many different things and I can assure you, the bounty/wanted system is severely messed up. You will see as you get into similar situations and many others where you didnt do anything wrong or someone around a mountain witnesses you out in the middle of no where and a part of 6-10 bounty hunters instantly spawns on you shooting you off your horse and owning you.

Same with Lawmen - anyone sees blood or something in town, if you are 2 streets over, you get blamed for it some how and they after you with bounties all of a sudden.

Honestly, I've been playing quite a lot (I'm semi-retired now so I have no schedule) and my experience has been quite the opposite.  I simply don't agree, that's all.

....and thanks for the tip on the bolt cutters.  I knew I could buy them but at that particular point I had passed on the purchase.  .....it would have been nice to have them back then though. 

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7 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

Honestly, I've been playing quite a lot (I'm semi-retired now so I have no schedule) and my experience has been quite the opposite.  I simply don't agree, that's all.

....and thanks for the tip on the bolt cutters.  I knew I could buy them but at that particular point I had passed on the purchase.  .....it would have been nice to have them back then though. 

Im knew to RDR2 has well, so maybe those people with experience from the first one didnt have to learn things the hard way like I have... I dunno.

The lock break, when I first got it at the first fence I found, I thought I messed up by paying 25$ for it and thinking it would only work 1 time. Thankfully it is something I can use all the time and been well worth the investment. Although I probably haven't gotten back 25$ from anything within the 5 or so Ive broken into, I'm sure they will add up over time.

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1 minute ago, Lucixir said:

Im knew to RDR2 has well, so maybe those people with experience from the first one didnt have to learn things the hard way like I have... I dunno.

The lock break, when I first got it at the first fence I found, I thought I messed up by paying 25$ for it and thinking it would only work 1 time. Thankfully it is something I can use all the time and been well worth the investment. Although I probably haven't gotten back 25$ from anything within the 5 or so Ive broken into, I'm sure they will add up over time.

Yeah, I had the opportunity quite a while back to buy it but passed and that's why I didn't have it for that one encounter.  I need to remember to purchase it next time I'm there.  .....well, now there's other fences I can go to so I'll check with them.  Good to know its permanent.   

RDR had similar mechanics so yeah, I guess it helps to have played it since you kinda know what to expect.  I will say RDR2s mechanics definitely have more depth and it's been a learning curve for me and a lot of experimentation.  Either way, there are a lot of guides coming out now describing the intricacies, triggers for these types of events, etc.  I try to avoid most of it though as I prefer to figure things out on my own.  .....and I don't want to happen upon any spoilers.

Speaking of which, came across this a couple days ago and thought since your thread was about bounties it might be sort of relevant.  I don;t think this is a spoiler but I'll use that option just in case.  It's basically just a list of the crimes, severity of each and bounty amount (SOURCE: https://gearnuke.com/red-dead-redemption-2-guide-bounty-values-per-crime/):

Spoiler
CRIME SEVERITY BOUNTY
Animal Cruelty Low (Medium for kills) $5
Arson Low (in the wilderness) /
Medium (in towns)
$5
Assault High $5
Bank Robbery High $25
Cheating Low $5
Disturbing the Peace Low $5-$10
Intimidation Medium $5
Jail Break High $25
Kidnapping High $10 ($15 for lawmen)
Looting Low $5
Murder High $15 ($20 for lawmen)
Robbery Medium $5-$10
Rustling Low $5
Theft Low; Medium for horse theft $5 ($10 for horse theft)
Train Robbery High $50
Trespassing Low $5
Vandalism Low $5
Unarmed Assault Low (in towns) / Medium
(in the wilderness)
$5

 

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Kean_1 - Yes, that was pretty great - thank you for that. Sure is funny how mine seems to rack up and track me down much faster. I never would of guessed many of them things were that low but I'm easily getting higher and riskier things to hunt me down much faster.

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On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:26 PM, Kean_1 said:

Maybe.  .....but beyond some of the hyperbole remarks about the bounty mechanic, there are ways to mitigate the chances of being spotted, recognized and caught. 

One example is a recent encounter I had with two dudes about 50 yards off of the main road.  They were trying to open a safe with a sledge hammer that I'm assuming they stole.  I rode up to them and they promptly told me to move on.  I backed off a few yards into the tree line and waited for them to bust it open.  I came back out and they engaged me.  I shot both of them.

Before I began looting, I put on my mask.  While near the wagon with the safe I had a notification that a witness was investigating so I took cover behind the wagon. I didn't see where he was at first but then I saw him slowly ride by on the road looking in my direction.  I waited until he was gone, the message disappeared and I ran off with their stuff. 

I have also engaged gangs who have ambushed me on the roads, taken out their camps, etc.  and I never get a bounty in those cases.  However, I have had the law called on me if I engage gangs or aggressive strangers in town with weapons.  ...whether it was my fault or not.  The exception is fist fights as long as I don't take it too far.  I even pursposely led two hoodlums out to the street in Valentine, knocked out one and then let the other pursue me into the Sheriff's office (just to see what would happen)  I proceeded to fight him as well and knock him out.  The Sheriff made a remark during the fight like "that's enough" (or something to that effect) but did nothing to me.  ....I walked out.  If I had looted him or hit him once more I am sure there would be a bounty and the sheriff would have tried to take me into custody.

When fist fighting, the screen will flash momentarily when you knock them out. IME, if you continue to throw blows beyond that point, you will be flagged.

I really don't think it has anything to do with chance.  Their are triggers in the programming and (for me at least) it was just a matter of figuring them out.  ....although I will say that I think that the witness detection seems to stretch further than it should at times.

I have been in fist fights where I knock people down and got a bounty.  Didn't kill them just knocked them down.  So there must be other triggers in the programs.  Once case the NPC drew a gun and I was unarmed but close enough to take a swing.  So I did.  Got me a bounty.   Like I said my son has been playing and though we do similar things there are many cases where he gets different responses then I.

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44 minutes ago, Lucixir said:

You can buy a lock breaker for 25$ that lasts forever, so you don't have to wait for them or when you steal coaches yourself, you can always break them open.

I wrote the original post and have been playing since it was released trying many many different things and I can assure you, the bounty/wanted system is severely messed up. You will see as you get into similar situations and many others where you didnt do anything wrong or someone around a mountain witnesses you out in the middle of no where and a part of 6-10 bounty hunters instantly spawns on you shooting you off your horse and owning you.

Same with Lawmen - anyone sees blood or something in town, if you are 2 streets over, you get blamed for it some how and they after you with bounties all of a sudden.

It seems to vary from one player to another.  I only have my son and I to use for examples and we truly have had different adventures.

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26 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

It seems to vary from one player to another.  I only have my son and I to use for examples and we truly have had different adventures.

How do your honor levels compare? Are they pretty similar or different? 

Maybe you have a higher chance of being reported for a crime if you have low honor? No idea, just throwing it out there. 

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