The Beta has Outworn its Welcome (Rant-a-tat-tat)

[YodaMan 3D]

2 minutes ago, Savage_Reaper said:

No they weren't griefing, they were playing the game as intended. I think having the unknown factor of what players are going to do keep it exciting and interesting.

What "unknown factor"?  You see another player, you assume he or she is there to attack you.  So you shoot 1st.  What is really "unknown".  Cause simple fact is, most players handle it in this situation.  A player who doesn't shoot 1st, is the one to respawn 1st. 

I am glad to see another player who likes both.  I have no problems with PvP.   I have problems with griefers and those who want to defend those actions. 

[Kean_1]

20 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Most people are asking for private lobbies or friendly pve lobbies.. Which are the smart ones, and im all for it.  But if R* listens to what I think are the more short sighted players.  Who complain about getting killed and want passive mode or penalties for players that kill them.

Then this game will end up losing its PVP fans and the players who like that 'anything can happen' feel of the game.  

Either way, ONE game mode to rule them all hurts everyone.  

Well, I wouldn't consider them short sighted or imply they are not the "smart ones".   I just look at it as yet another opinion of what players want to see in this game even if it's not what I like. 

As for what most want, unfortunately none of us are privy to the feedback information or gameplay data that R* is.  I know R* must be taking these things into account when making their decisions on what they prioritize, what they are looking to include / exclude in the future, etc.  .....and while they don't officially participate, I strongly suspect they also have resources monitoring Reddit and other social media to collect information. 

I do believe R* is taking the feedback they've been receiving through their site quite seriously which is why I have been encouraging folks (regardless of their point of view) to submit their suggestions, frustrations, etc. directly to them.

The fact is, we can argue about what R* is doing right or wrong but none of that is going to change anything unless we act.

[Savage_Reaper]

7 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

What "unknown factor"?  You see another player, you assume he or she is there to attack you.  So you shoot 1st.  What is really "unknown".  Cause simple fact is, most players handle it in this situation.  A player who doesn't shoot 1st, is the one to respawn 1st. 

I am glad to see another player who likes both.  I have no problems with PvP.   I have problems with griefers and those who want to defend those actions. 

Not defending their actions. Most really aren't that good. I had a guy last night on top of the post office in Rhodes sniping the butcher with a varmit. He tried to kill me but failed. I made him leave the server quickly via multiple deaths.  It may be my experience but most of these "griefers" aren't good and don't expect you to fight back. They want easy targets. 90% of the time you fight back, they take off quickly. Which is why they don't bother me. I welcome the extra XP they provide me from killing them. 

[Jborho]

How about this,  your not able to PVP unless you rob a store or shoot an NPC which sets your wanted level and then your open to everyone.  If you shoot at a wanted player, then your flagged pvp.  This way, you can participate if wish... or just go on your way.   Or simply having your guns out... flags you. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Jborho

[HuDawg]

16 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

 I have problems with griefers and those who want to defend those actions. 

Well their actions are .. at the moment are just  "Killing Players'.

And Killing players is not something that only griefers do.  So anything that effects killing other players always needs to be looked at from all angles.    Not just from the lense of Griefers.

 

Lets say for example they make it so killing players gives a penalty..  So now players defending themselves get punished?  Friends who fight each other for fun get punished?   

 

And... lets say they added a  Passive option.   Well, now griefers are tossing TNT at the fish where you're fishing OR shooting Perfect Animals (to downgrade to Poor) right after you kill an animal.  And now, you can't shoot them.   So you have to leave the game anyways...  The cycle really ends.

 

I like griefers.. I don't LIKE LIKE them.  But without them, id have no one to fight.  I need them..

Edited January 15, 2019 by HuDawg

[Major Dammidge]

@HuDawg @Samplemygravy  if you have been griefed rarely as HuDawg, your perspective maybe muddied up from the experience of players like me: hunting for 90 minutes or 2 hours,  play Time wasted because some griefer head shoots you as you're jumping off the horse at the butcher. And when this happens to you five or six times, let me know you are okay with it. I don't get saying somebody is not smart if your experience has not been theirs. IMHO all Rockstar has to do is add trapper locations around the map as in the story version. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Major Dammidge
Omitted word

[Vanguard69er]

3 hours ago, Major Dammidge said:

@HuDawg @Samplemygravy  if you have been griefed rarely as HuDawg, your perspective maybe muddied up from the experience of players like me: hunting for 90 minutes or 2 hours,  play Time wasted because some griefer head shoots you as you're jumping off the horse at the butcher. And when this happens to you five or six times, let me know you are okay with it. I don't get saying somebody is not smart if your experience has not been theirs. IMHO all Rockstar has to do is add trapper locations around the map as in the story version. 

Or they could add private lobbies as HuDawg says in his first post.

[Euphoric77]

I like the tension of online players as well. During missions the game sets other posse's as enemies and encourages this as well. I would not want a change in this.

However (and this happened this morning to me), I was hunting in Saint Denis and there was just 1 player besides me in the city. I had hunted for an hour had a deer lassoed and brought it to the butcher. The other player was afk like just standing there (because I do try to be careful) so i checked and he was not moving. Proceeded to skin the deer when i got headshotted. By the time I get back to the butcher this guy had sold the deer. I shot him, then called for my horse. He came back shot me as I was approaching my horse, and when i respawned he had sold all other carcasses and was inside the general store before leaving the server. You might call this fun or so, but being able to do this without getting any penalty whatsoever for me is a no-go and needs to be addressed. This is for me real griefing and not a let's test our skills and see who is better in a wild west game.

For the rest I agree with OP, however I think Rockstar needs to deal with the day 1 issues first (lvl1 bonding horse and many other things). Furthermore they need to add stuff to do and not focus on different kind of lobbies first. PVP wise there is plenty to do already, it is time more grinding is added to acquire things and especially posse related grinding.

What is the point of levelling after lvl 100 which quite a few players have reached - at a certain point people also have the essential kit they want to run with along with playerspecific extra's so they start saving up for when new content is added or start buying non essential stuff.

The game indeed needs PVE related content badly.

[chocolatefinch]

Whatever happens I hope they solve it soon, so everyone can play it in the way they want. It could be such a great online game if Rockstar get it right.

[Vaderspupil]

I hate the paranoia that griefers are causing. The other day, I was riding through Strawberry when I accidentally  crashed into another player as I came around the corner and didn't  see them till the last second. They got up and immediately blew me away with a pump action. I thought about retaliating, but I knew he thought I was griefing him even though it was an honest mistake and I didn't want to escalate the situation. I just continued on my way.

[HuDawg]

Guys..   Not for nothing but this topic isn't about Griefing.

 

Its about R* not adding the basic and bare necessities to the game.  From Free Aim, to Private Lobbies.. to actual in game Options.  That have been included in every GTA O game for over 10  years.

Someone simply read my comment about "Griefing being the least important thing" line when compared to what I listed, and kind of took offense to it.  

 

Many Players are sitting here waiting for R* to simply say.  "Free Aim lobbies are coming.. Private Lobbies are coming".  Instead we get a post about up coming changes to the game (Some of which tackles griefing).

 

Griefing is the least important for R* to post about.  Same with posting about how they will add NEW showdown modes.    

 

 

[HuDawg]

7 hours ago, Major Dammidge said:

@HuDawg @Samplemygravy  if you have been griefed rarely as HuDawg, your perspective maybe muddied up from the experience of players like me: hunting for 90 minutes or 2 hours,  play Time wasted because some griefer head shoots you as you're jumping off the horse at the butcher. And when this happens to you five or six times, let me know you are okay with it. I don't get saying somebody is not smart if your experience has not been theirs. IMHO all Rockstar has to do is add trapper locations around the map as in the story version. 

I feel your pain dude.   But if R* would have added Private Lobbies and Free Aim lobbies.  In both cases, you would probably never have been headshotted so easily.   (NPC ambushes would still happen tho)

From there R* can then start talking about how to deal with 'griefers'.  But from that stand point of players who WANT to be in the chaos that is public lobbies.  

I do agree about adding more Butchers.  

[chocolatefinch]

25 minutes ago, Samplemygravy said:

Yes since there is always risk when trying to earn. Part of the concept of these games. Not really a thing that you can sit there and hunt and fish all day making money with no risk. 

Wasn't  'sitting there fishing all day'   Had fished for about 5 minutes when for no reason was attacked. They made no money from killing me or my horse. I could understand it if they rob you of your fish and then sell it but to allow people to just kill someone for fun isn't my idea of a good  game.  Especially when Rockstar bang on about the free roam hunting and fishing part of the game.

[YodaMan 3D]

56 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Guys..   Not for nothing but this topic isn't about Griefing.

 

Its about R* not adding the basic and bare necessities to the game.  From Free Aim, to Private Lobbies.. to actual in game Options.  That have been included in every GTA O game for over 10  years.

Someone simply read my comment about "Griefing being the least important thing" line when compared to what I listed, and kind of took offense to it.  

 

Many Players are sitting here waiting for R* to simply say.  "Free Aim lobbies are coming.. Private Lobbies are coming".  Instead we get a post about up coming changes to the game (Some of which tackles griefing).

 

Griefing is the least important for R* to post about.  Same with posting about how they will add NEW showdown modes.    

 

 I feel you assume that griefing all goes away if they make the separate lobbies and it doesn't.  Griefing would still be an issue.  I also under the impression that some feel that griefing is a PvP issue only.  There are PvE griefers as well.  There should be no problem with options that would drive players to not want to participate in PvP or PvE without having to grief others.   

To put it simply, create different lobbies and the numbers of people unhappy with the griefers go down.  It seems less important and gets swept under the rug and ignored.   Next Rockstar game, includes griefing and why is that.  Oh yeah, according to your plan they fixed it and it got ignored.  

[HuDawg]

10 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

 I feel you assume that griefing all goes away if they make the separate lobbies and it doesn't. 

You're kind of right..  Because NPCS can still ambush you, kill you and make you lose pelts and animals from your horse.

 

But private lobbies does solve your problem of getting killed by players.  So it does make that aspect of griefing go away.

 

This isn't My Little Pony Adventure Land.  What do you want R* to do about it?   

 

Because R* could add passive mode.. I can still think of a few ways to 'grief' you without even having to kill you.  

 

[YodaMan 3D]

10 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

You're kind of right..  Because NPCS can still ambush you, kill you and make you lose pelts and animals from your horse.

 

But private lobbies does solve your problem of getting killed by players.  So it does make that aspect of griefing go away.

 

This isn't My Little Pony Adventure Land.  What do you want R* to do about it?   

 

Because R* could add passive mode.. I can still think of a few ways to 'grief' you without even having to kill you.  

 

Have you ever been on a mission, where a teammate throws dynamite killing the NPC that you are suppose to just capture.  Yeah, that is griefing.  Having you ever been hunting or fishing or hunting with a posse and have a teammate decide dynamite is the best device to use.  Killing everything and making it worthless.  Yeah, griefing.  Have you ever been on a mission and a player more concerned with looting, while you are surrounded by 20 NPCs and you have to start all over cause that knucklehead ignores you when you ask for help.  

In The Division more so then in here, but have you ever been killing NPCs and have some player follow you around waiting to grab whatever loot drops.  Just because they suck or too lazy to fight their own battles.  Yeah, that is also griefing by PvE players.  

Cause in all the things mentioned, either they know you can't hurt them, stop them, or expect you as teammate not to aid the team.

As far as what I think Rockstar should do, is treat the online like it does the campaign.  You commit a crime, you get a wanted level.  There are different levels crimes.  Now a crime where Player A attacks Player B, who is fishing should be treated more serious and gets you seriously outnumbered by NPCs.  If in the above situation Player B fires back, then consider it a legal duel.  No harm no fowl.  This creates a situation it's the Wild West and you want to be an outlaw.  You break the laws your options are fight, die, or run.  Not keep attacking someone not fighting back.  

Edited January 15, 2019 by YodaMan 3D

[HuDawg]

1 minute ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Have you ever been on a mission, where a teammate throws dynamite killing the NPC that you are suppose to just capture.  Yeah, that is griefing.  Having you ever been hunting or fishing or hunting with a posse and have a teammate decide dynamite is the best device to use.  Killing everything and making it worthless.  Yeah, griefing.  Have you ever been on a mission and a player more concerned with looting, while you are surrounded by 20 NPCs and you have to start all over cause that knucklehead ignores you when you ask for help.  

Everything I posted in my 1st post, about R* adding BASIC game play options.  SOLVES everything you're complaining about.    

 

[HuDawg]

14 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

As far as what I think Rockstar should do, is treat the online like it does the campaign.  You commit a crime, you get a wanted level.  There are different levels crimes.  Now a crime where Player A attacks Player B, who is fishing should be treated more serious and gets you seriously outnumbered by NPCs.  If in the above situation Player B fires back, then consider it a legal duel.  No harm no fowl.  This creates a situation it's the Wild West and you want to be an outlaw.  You break the laws your options are fight, die, or run.  Not keep attacking someone not fighting back.  

 

So what if a bunch of players roll up on me..  With ONE player hiding behind his friends and starts shooting at me.  I kill him and all his friends.  I get punished?

How about we leave public sessions alone..   And let private sessions do its job.

[YodaMan 3D]

25 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

 

So what if a bunch of players roll up on me..  With ONE player hiding behind his friends and starts shooting at me.  I kill him and all his friends.  I get punished?

How about we leave public sessions alone..   And let private sessions do its job.

Or how about players just claiming to want PvP actually participate with players who are PvPing.  Quit going after those who aren't involved.  Why can't players use some restraint?  

Seriously, if a posse rolls up on you and one player hangs back and back does nothing.  1st, I would think he would be treated like the rest of his posse and if they become aggressors, he would be too.  2nd, I can see your concern about going after the one guy not attacking you, those are the ones I always concern myself with in PvP.  Forget about the one actually killing me.  Let him live, worry about the guy who takes off and hides.  Obviously he's upper management.

Where I am at a loss, is your concern for those who grief and continue to let them do it unopposed.  Why do you feel griefing is needed for PvP?  I don't understand the need to grief in PvP or PvE, but some seem to think they can't play a game and have fun unless they ruin it for others.   Simply put, your plan will help cut back on griefing in PvEvP area, but it doesn't eliminate it.  It reduces the numbers so you can say it isn't an issue, so Rockstar doesn't concern themselves with coming up with a solution.  

In GTA, they did private servers and then limited the kinds of jobs you could do there to make money.  What then when they do that in RDO?  Right now I see very few differences between this game and GTA.  Same type of players, same disagreements.  All I ask is for actual solutions, not a cover up and ignore.  

[HuDawg]

10 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

dOr how about players just claiming to want PvP actually participate with players who are PvPing.  Quit going after those who aren't involved.  Why can't players use some restraint?  

 Its almost as if you're oblivious to what game you're playing.  I really don't know what to say anymore to you.

 But, every single thing you keep complaining about is easily solved with PRIVATE LOBBIES!  

 

Public lobbies are supposed to be a sh*t show..    GTA 4 online.. sh*t show.  RDR1 Online..  sh*t Show.  GTA  V/O sh*t show.   Its always a sh*t show dude.   You can't control other players.   But you can avoid playing with them if this game had private lobbies which this game doesn't have.

If it had private lobbies it would be your choice.. Play in peace OR join the sh*t show.

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by HuDawg

[YodaMan 3D]

Just now, HuDawg said:

Wow?  Its almost as if you're oblivious to what game you're playing.

 But, every single thing you keep complaining about is easily solve with PRIVATE LOBBIES!  

 

Public lobbies are supposed to be a sh*t show..    GTA 4 online.. sh*t show.  RDR1 Online..  sh*t Show.  GTA  V/O sh*t show.   Its always a sh*t show dude.   You can't control other players.   But you can avoid playing with them if this game had private lobbies which this game doesn't have.

If it had private lobbies it would be your choice.. Play in peace OR join the sh*t show.

 

I am very aware of the game I am playing.  I am also very aware that I can restrain myself from attacking players by using a little situational awareness and not attacking those who have no concern with PvPing with me.  I am also very aware that just because you remove some of those who PvE, that the griefers will still be there looking for those to pounce.  You are assuming that PvP and Griefing have to go hand and hand and not aware that a PvP player can actually PvP with others who want to PvP in a PvEvP map.  

Once again your suggestion will help, but it doesn't fix it.  Rockstar has the power to fix it, if they choose to.  

[HuDawg]

11 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Once again your suggestion will help, but it doesn't fix it.  Rockstar has the power to fix it, if they choose to.  

Fix it as in adding private lobbies.. Yes.    

Fix it as in 'stop griefing from randoms'  in public lobbies?  That will never happen because its impossible.

 

[YodaMan 3D]

4 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Fix it as in adding private lobbies.. Yes.    

Fix it as in 'stop griefing from randoms'  in public lobbies?  That will never happen because its impossible.

 

Only impossible, if you don't seek answers.  Most cases like this companies try to find the easiest fix, that band-aid.  You can stop griefing, problem is will they try it.  Obviously, you want a band-aid.  Problem will still exists.  Which is all I have been trying to point out to you.  You want a fix, then fix it now.  Yes it can be done, it's a matter of exactly how for the whole community.

[HuDawg]

Just now, YodaMan 3D said:

Only impossible, if you don't seek answers.  Most cases like this companies try to find the easiest fix, that band-aid.  You can stop griefing, problem is will they try it.  Obviously, you want a band-aid.  Problem will still exists.  Which is all I have been trying to point out to you.  You want a fix, then fix it now.  Yes it can be done, it's a matter of exactly how for the whole community.

Private lobbies are not a BAND AID.   They are the simple solution to everything you have complained about.. Infact private lobbies solves griefing in every single game ever made.

 

You want the band aid..  You want some sort of half baked rules and regulations added.  Which in your case, every single thing you have come up just benefits griefers OR punishes players who defend themselves.  

Im about to make a "Can't stop griefing'.. Change my mind topic".   Because this topic was never about griefers.  

 

[YodaMan 3D]

19 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Private lobbies are not a BAND AID.   They are the simple solution to everything you have complained about.. Infact private lobbies solves griefing in every single game ever made.

 

You want the band aid..  You want some sort of half baked rules and regulations added.  Which in your case, every single thing you have come up just benefits griefers OR punishes players who defend themselves.  

Im about to make a "Can't stop griefing'.. Change my mind topic".   Because this topic was never about griefers.  

 

Where does your griefers go once you give PvE lobby?   If you don't like my suggestions, then come up with something better.  Private lobbies don't fix everything!  Griefers will still be there, they will still be griefing.  Private servers didn't fix it.  Players who went to private servers, have zero reason to try and comeback.  Your plan fails if you don't remove griefers and that is the hole in you plan.  You aren't wanting a fix.  You want to leave the status quo as is and fix nothing.

In your own words, "But now R* says the beta will last for a 'few' more months.       And the only thing they talked about is minor changes to help against 'griefing'..   When griefing is the least important thing."

For a large number it is an issue.  Seeing how Rockstar wants everyone in this type world.  There better options then, "Get out and stay out!"  That is what mental status for most who prefer PvP over PvE in a PvEvP world.  The game industry keeps making games like this because players like the idea, but they can't come together because of differences.  

Soon as someone comes up with a better plan that affects a players desire to grief.  Then I am on board, but to say it can't be done means we haven't thought it out enough.  

Edited January 15, 2019 by YodaMan 3D

[BropolloCreed79]

4 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Griefing is the least important for R* to post about.  Same with posting about how they will add NEW showdown modes.  

This is the most true statement in this thread.

R* should be making announcements about expected content changes once the beta concludes.  Will additional content to free roam be available at "launch" or is it a backburner item?  The biggest impediment to the game's long term viability is the lack of free roam content.  By making it a PvP environment (sorry @Kean_1, but with friendly fire being a persistent state, the game is absolutely PvP, and not PvPvE, like The Elder Scrolls Online), there's little for players to do once they achieve max rank other than kill each other in the free roam environment until endgame content, like raids or dungeons, is implemented.

Maybe they have instanced, gated content like robbing a wagon train, bank heists, storming a fort to rescue an NPC or Posse member, whatever.

[YodaMan 3D]

2 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

This is the most true statement in this thread.

R* should be making announcements about expected content changes once the beta concludes.  Will additional content to free roam be available at "launch" or is it a backburner item?  The biggest impediment to the game's long term viability is the lack of free roam content.  By making it a PvP environment (sorry @Kean_1, but with friendly fire being a persistent state, the game is absolutely PvP, and not PvPvE, like The Elder Scrolls Online), there's little for players to do once they achieve max rank other than kill each other in the free roam environment until endgame content, like raids or dungeons, is implemented.

Maybe they have instanced, gated content like robbing a wagon train, bank heists, storming a fort to rescue an NPC or Posse member, whatever.

If they refuse to fix the PvP vs PvE issue, then they eliminate a percentage of their player base.   Over the past few years, I have seen numbers for some games that the PvE player count is generally larger then the PvP player count.  Some players are brand specific.  To offend and ignore those players cost you money down the road.  They need to focus on there whole player base not just part of it.

[Kean_1]

58 minutes ago, BropolloCreed79 said:

sorry @Kean_1, but with friendly fire being a persistent state, the game is absolutely PvP, and not PvPvE, like The Elder Scrolls Online

Well, I didn't say it was a model that didn't favor PvP.  ....but R* is clearly trying to sell the PvE aspect of it as well to players and if they can add some balance, I don't see why RDO couldn't be more enjoyable for coop / PvEers like myself.

[BropolloCreed79]

1 hour ago, Kean_1 said:

R* is clearly trying to sell the PvE aspect of it as well to players and if they can add some balance, I don't see why RDO couldn't be more enjoyable for coop / PvEers like myself.

Oh, I'm firmly in the PvE camp myself.  I suppose I'm just going to have to turn into a total nob online if I want to get any satisfaction out of the game, because for the brief time I played the other day, I couldn't get within ten feet of a town without a group of spazzes pulling a "Number Six" on me and everyone else.  And all I wanted to do was go to the tailor so I didn't have to worry about getting bushwhacked out in an open field while looking through my catalog.

[Major Dammidge]

The conversation seems to have gotten  as in contentious. So I am going to inject some levity.

It seems as if this discussion's edginess could describe an environment in which we could shoot each other 🤣 next, I'm not such a super achiever to get into the hundred plus level crowd who is bored with the current beta version. That said I'm going to let you laugh at how really lousy I truly am. So have a laugh at my expense! Please. 

https://xboxclips.com/WehTuFat/d657fa9c-5ec9-4018-a753-addec76782b1

The Bible does say blessed are the Peacemakers [made by Colt firearms??]

Edited January 15, 2019 by Major Dammidge
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