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THOSE THAT HATE RADAR !


EYE_CANDY__
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WHY ARE THERE NO "NON RADAR GAMES ANYMORE AFTER UPDATE" ?   it was bad enough the previous update mixed the single player no radar games with team crap that did'nt pay anything.    this the 1800s !!!    how the hell does a game that prides itself on realism ( and succeeds greatly in many ways ) justify having RADAR ?   i can see radar in a futuristic combat game.   but radar in old west makes no F-ing sense.     i wont play any of the radar games.  i refuse to run around with a gun like an idiot ( see every stupid teen gun game )  im a hunter stalker and yes CAMPER !  AND ITS NOT FAIR WE ARE SHUTOUT !!   

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agree with EYE_CANDY__

radar ruined some atmosphere.

in lot of ocasions you don neet to hear and see surroundings, just peek in radar, c target and bang bang on it.

Ppl dont even know wind rose and places with direction.

it would be better use only interactive map without this damn circle.

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It's not a new mechanic in R* games.  Neither are the arcade aspects.  

The fact is that they have to appeal to their core player base and removing something like this that has such a significant impact on the gameplay won't likely be well received.  

Personally, I think the proximity blips alone were a great compromise to keeping the radar while not being too intrusive in regard to people's whereabouts.  You really need to be within a relatively close range before you even begin to show up on someone's minimap.  ......unless of course you have a high hostility level.  

.....then there's the whole balance aspect of it.  Remove people's ability to spot potential enemies near them and the chances of being griefed will skyrocket.  Ambushes will be a common event in towns, popular routes, etc.  This would firmly place the advantage in the griefer's hands.  

I like the idea for immersion but the realist in me tends to think Free Roam would simply turn into a free for all at that point and that is clearly not the vision R* has for RDO.  If you folks really don't like it, you can also let R* know via their feedback site:

https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadonline/feedback?step=decd9bdb

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On 9/15/2019 at 1:28 AM, EYE_CANDY__ said:

WHY ARE THERE NO "NON RADAR GAMES ANYMORE AFTER UPDATE" ?   it was bad enough the previous update mixed the single player no radar games with team crap that did'nt pay anything.    this the 1800s !!!    how the hell does a game that prides itself on realism ( and succeeds greatly in many ways ) justify having RADAR ?   i can see radar in a futuristic combat game.   but radar in old west makes no F-ing sense.     i wont play any of the radar games.  i refuse to run around with a gun like an idiot ( see every stupid teen gun game )  im a hunter stalker and yes CAMPER !  AND ITS NOT FAIR WE ARE SHUTOUT !!   

Isnt the radar optional? I thought you can shut it off or do I have that wrong?

Maybe Im misunderstanding you.

I am pretty sure you can disable it still but I havent tried it, I love that damn thing!! lol.

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3 hours ago, lumper said:

Isnt the radar optional? I thought you can shut it off or do I have that wrong?

Maybe Im misunderstanding you.

I am pretty sure you can disable it still but I havent tried it, I love that damn thing!! lol.

I know you can in single player... never tried in online... but that would just be crippling  yourself while everyone else enjoys the benefits of the radar....

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3 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

I know you can in single player... never tried in online... but that would just be crippling  yourself while everyone else enjoys the benefits of the radar....

Ok, so you want everyone to have no radar?

LOL

thats funny.

Well who knows man, maybe a no radar server in time, look at gtav after 6 years, flying motorcycles, and orbital cannons, so......

 

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19 hours ago, lumper said:

Isnt the radar optional? I thought you can shut it off or do I have that wrong?

Maybe Im misunderstanding you.

I am pretty sure you can disable it still but I havent tried it, I love that damn thing!! lol.

 

yes you can online, but what realy is the point when it is only applied to you, not the whole server.....

radar will never be server removed, not when R* increased all animation move speeds in order to step away from realism so the gtao ppl would jump on the game.

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Radar compensates for the absence of sensory inputs that you would have if you were really in that environment, it isn't about realism for a game set in the late 1800s - its the fact its a videogame. I'm firmly in the pro-radar camp for free roam.

That said, I can understand the frustration that it's allowed in certain game modes and agree that those modes would be enhanced by preventing all players having radar. I don't understand R*'s reluctance in offering opt-in free-aim and no-radar servers or game modes.

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4 minutes ago, Feorh said:

We have an interactive map in fact u can check directions with it. So radar is just on screen map with onscreen access. 

For me the radar is more about spatial awareness. The interactive map is clunky as hell to use and not helped by the fact it shares a button press with quick access to the progress menus that pops up everytime you do anything like find a collectible.

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16 hours ago, lumper said:

Ok, so you want everyone to have no radar?

LOL

thats funny.

Well who knows man, maybe a no radar server in time, look at gtav after 6 years, flying motorcycles, and orbital cannons, so......

 

Actually no, I like my radar. As mentioned I a previous post, it’s what helps compensate for the fact that you are controlling a 2 dimensional screen (no matter how beautifully crafted to give you a 3D impression). 

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3 hours ago, NF85 said:

yes you can online, but what realy is the point when it is only applied to you, not the whole server.....

radar will never be server removed, not when R* increased all animation move speeds in order to step away from realism so the gtao ppl would jump on the game.

I dunno.....  The increase in animations speed, movement, etc. was minimal IMO / IME.  ....although I would have preferred them to actually slow releads way down rather than speed them up given just how ridiculously fast they were to begin with.  .....nothing real about that.

Either way, R* games always had an arcadey feel to them in relation to their gunplay and character control.  However, they create really immersive worlds which is what their draw is to me.

No radar in a tactical shooter makes sense to me.  ......not in a game like this though.  At least not without a lot of other changes including no auto aim, realistic reloads, ammo and weapon management, etc.  Having said that, I would love to see a hardcore mode with these elements in it.

If I can find the article about R*s decision to go with a "one mode" option, I'll post a link. They really wanted to crate an online game mode for all rather than splitting up players.  Fact is, not everyone is going to like everything they do with it and some will likely never be happy regardless.

IMO, RDR2 is nowhere near the same gameplay experience GTAO is due to it's pacing and other aspects and none of the changes they've made make me feel that their intention is to draw RDO toward that.  .....most if then are just the opposite in fact.

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On 9/14/2019 at 10:28 PM, EYE_CANDY__ said:

WHY ARE THERE NO "NON RADAR GAMES ANYMORE AFTER UPDATE" ?   it was bad enough the previous update mixed the single player no radar games with team crap that did'nt pay anything.    this the 1800s !!!    how the hell does a game that prides itself on realism ( and succeeds greatly in many ways ) justify having RADAR ?   i can see radar in a futuristic combat game.   but radar in old west makes no F-ing sense.     i wont play any of the radar games.  i refuse to run around with a gun like an idiot ( see every stupid teen gun game )  im a hunter stalker and yes CAMPER !  AND ITS NOT FAIR WE ARE SHUTOUT !!   

what? lol

i'm all for adding stealth and blips not appearing for certain actions (crouch, walk, standing still etc..) but meh.

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I read all the responses and I understand the need for simplistic gameplay that draws in the most players.    problem is I'm not like most players. I never saw interesting being a dam car thief.    I like being a cowboy. re

d dead is the only online shooter game I have ever seen without radar. ( if there are others please let me know )   and I like a shoot out that makes sense.   there is no radar in the 1800s  period.  I'm fine with getting rid of auto aim or other non realistic options.  I like to hunt in a game.  the kills are more satisfying.    The real reason I bought red dead online was because I herd there would be poker.  how cool would it be to have texas hold-em in a cowboy saloon.    but that turned out to be even more disappointing. apparently R* has never ever played poker.        you cant bluff because there is no "all in " option  for ALL  your chips.  not just a lousy 5 dollars worth.   everyone is gonna call 5 dollars  smh.     plus you cant talk to your opponents.  that's half the fun.   maybe you can with mics with friends.   but you don't play poker with friends  lol.    ahhh well   what can ya do.        one more thing   why the **** did R* even have no radar games in the beginning if they were gonna just trash it later?   answer --->  to get adults money to buy there game   then go back to gearing it to GTA stupid kids.    BLAH!!

Edited by EYE_CANDY__
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I'm largely with OP.  I don't mind radar in some of the competitive mini-games (although it has stopped me playing them - it isn't a battle royale if you know where everyone is, so doesn't do it for me personally), but in terms of the wider open game the radar is an issue sometimes.  I was chased by a posse of human players the other day.  In the real world I would have had the option to find a gully and hide, but that's impossible with radar.  So I led them to a choke point and introduced them to Captain & Tennille instead, as that was the only option.  Took them out so that isn't my issue but it would be more fun for me to have more tactical options.  I am not a griefer, I'm a very honourable player who largely acts as a trader with the odd bit of bounty hunting, but I have much more patience for a bit of griefing in the game as that is what it would have been like, on occasion - there was little law and little safety net away from population centres.  I love the game, I really do, and I'm in for the long haul, but I'd far rather there were no radar.  It really isn't necessary, I can't make a logical case for it.

Edited by SimonTemplar
It was randomly in italics!
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Well, no. There wasn’t radar in the 1800s. But people did have smell, sight, hearing, touch,  Peripheral vision... all that gets taken away looking at a tv screen. That is why games need to add things like radars and eagle vision...

don’t get me wrong, I completely get your point. It really isn’t in the flavour of a game set in the time period (or even our modern time period. In my 16 year army career I’ve never come across a piece of equipment that not only showed me a map, but the exact location of everyone around with hostile or friendly identifies).  But as for realism, it’s just not going to happen in a video game with our current technology... That’s why I buy old cowboy guns and replicas of old cowboy guns and hit the range for some cowboy action shooting when I can (and even that isn’t quite there, but it’s fun). Or head out to hunt and run trap lines. And fish.

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8 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

Well, no. There wasn’t radar in the 1800s. But people did have smell, sight, hearing, touch,  Peripheral vision... all that gets taken away looking at a tv screen. That is why games need to add things like radars and eagle vision...

don’t get me wrong, I completely get your point. It really isn’t in the flavour of a game set in the time period (or even our modern time period. In my 16 year army career I’ve never come across a piece of equipment that not only showed me a map, but the exact location of everyone around with hostile or friendly identifies).  But as for realism, it’s just not going to happen in a video game with our current technology... That’s why I buy old cowboy guns and replicas of old cowboy guns and hit the range for some cowboy action shooting when I can (and even that isn’t quite there, but it’s fun). Or head out to hunt and run trap lines. And fish.

Agreed.  I'm ex-law enforcement and would love to have had something along the lines of the game's radar.  But the ability to hide might be fun, as would the ability to surprise others.  But I think essentially we agree.

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Just now, EYE_CANDY__ said:

I read all the responses and I understand the need for simplistic gameplay that draws in the most players.    problem is I'm not like most players. I never saw interesting being a dam car thief.    I like being a cowboy.

red dead is the only online shooter game I have ever seen without radar. ( if there are others please let me know )   and I like a shoot out that makes sense.   there is no radar in the 1800s  period.  I'm fine with getting rid of auto aim or other non realistic options.  I like to hunt in a game.  the kills are more satisfying.   

You mean "with radar", right?  Most online console games have some form of minimap plus targeting.  Exceptions might be hardcore tactical shooters, hardcore survival, etc.  R* games are sort of unique for their open worlds and freedom for players to essentially do as they like (e.g. explore, run businesses, fool around, interact with other players, etc.).  

The fact is, without the minimap or radar (or even without auto aim, the cover system, etc.) you're game is only going to appeal to a niche audience that is into a hardcore experience. Unless they create a seperate hardcore mode for players, I doubt you will see anything like that in RDO.

Either way, they have made improvements to the radar especially when they went with a proximity based system rather than the GTA-like radar that shows everyone on the map.  Huge improvement in helping with griefers by not showing where everyone is at but also giving players a heads-up when other players are near.

 

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The real reason I bought red dead online was because I herd there would be poker.  how cool would it be to have texas hold-em in a cowboy saloon.    but that turned out to be even more disappointing. apparently R* has never ever played poker.        you cant bluff because there is no "all in " option  for ALL  your chips.  not just a lousy 5 dollars worth.   everyone is gonna call 5 dollars  smh.     plus you cant talk to your opponents.  that's half the fun.   maybe you can with mics with friends.   but you don't play poker with friends  lol.    ahhh well   what can ya do.       

I'm not sure what to say.....  It sounds like you bought a game that simply wasn't for you.  

I bought RDR2 for the campaign.  I played the hell out of RDR1 so it was a no-brainer that I would buy RDR2.  I had no idea how RDO would be so I never had any high hopes that it would provide the kind of online experience I wanted.  .....but I was pleasantly surprised.

 

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one more thing   why the **** did R* even have no radar games in the beginning if they were gonna just trash it later?   answer --->  to get adults money to buy there game   then go back to gearing it to GTA stupid kids.    BLAH!!

RDR1 had radar.

I recall there was a hardcore survival, old west themed game called "Outlaws of the Old West" for PC that was in development.  To be honest, you're more likely to find what you want on that platform than you will on XB1 or PS4.  

I love a good hardcore gaming experience myself.  I play DayZ (HC survival game) and I can't wait for Insurgency Sandstorm to release on PS4.  .....the latter is an HC tactical shooter with no enemy markings, radar, high lethality, etc.  Good stuff....

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dear Mr. moderator Kean_1      I don't think you know your own game you moderate.   there were 4 " NO RADAR "elimination maps that shrunk like fortnight.  karagans ranch, the manor, rodes , and forest.   and people LOVED them !   LOTS of people !  no "niche" audience. 5 -11 pm daily the rooms were mostly maxed out.  people smack talked before every mission.  you hardly hear any smack talk now  with the tomahawk and throwing knives only maps with radar on.  those 4 maps had NO RADAR what's so ever.  and people played them hundreds of times. I would bet more so then any other map or game play with red dead 2 online. ( I could be wrong )  WHY can't Rockstar just leave those 4 maps the way they were.  do they screw up the programing?   Rockstar should not teach are children who could be future law enforcement or military to run around with guns mindlessly to avoid a mythical radar that will spot your location.   I do like the new bounty hunter / trader / treasure seeker stuff.  but there is no substitute for hunting and killing non NPCs.   I agree radar should be available for free roam or nobody would find everybody.   but there's nothing wrong with a good ambush either.  if someone gets ambushed at a popular spot all they have to do is flank them or get them from behind after respawn.  Simon makes a good point about  smell, sight, hearing, touch,  Peripheral vision, and such to explain a need for radar.    but I would disagree on sitting still camping.   Your not gonna smell a camper every time.  thanks for the game tips on PCs   but once you go ps4    you cant seriously compete graphics wise with laptops and desktops.

 

PS

NO I did NOT buy the wrong game.  RED DEAD 2 " advertised " poker in its campaign version and later in its online version.  I took a chance they could do it right and was sorely disappointed.

anyone who knows anything about poker knows you need player communication at table , and the ability to go " ALL IN !! "   without that you can never bluff and the game devolves into a who draws the highest hand wins game.

 

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1 hour ago, EYE_CANDY__ said:

...  there were 4 " NO RADAR "elimination maps that shrunk like fortnight.  karagans ranch, the manor, rodes , and forest.   and people LOVED them !

 

indeed played those maps couple of times and as u mentioned they feels great. And for some time played them. Mostly time played on showdown large it's always rush mess fells more like arcade with instant resp-kill, time to time. Those karagans ranch, the manor, rodes , and forest elimination maps feels much more like tactics game play maps i really liked them.

Edited by Feorh
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3 hours ago, EYE_CANDY__ said:

dear Mr. moderator Kean_1.......   

You're just talking about PvP events that are missing then, not other R* games as in titles, etc.?   Sorry, I guess I'm just having a difficult time understanding your posts. I also thought you were referring to RDO in general.  I don't play the PvP modes myself so you've got me at a disadvantage there.

As for your interpretation of what gambling should have been like in this game, you obviously had your own specific expectations of how that should have been implemented.

Again, if you feel so strongly about these things lacking in the game I'd strongly suggest you provide your feed back as well through the R* website I left a link to.  R* does take that feedback serious and if enough people feel as strongly as you do about it, who knows, maybe they'll bring those PvP modes back, etc.

 

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yeah  but the link you gave me wants me to sign into the social club first.   either I never signed up for that or I forgot email address and pw.  I tried recover pw couple of times and got blank response emails.  or ones claiming no such account pw or email exists   etc.   usual bs for forums you cant just go to and make comments.    thanks for your help anyway.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, EYE_CANDY__ said:

yeah  but the link you gave me wants me to sign into the social club first.   either I never signed up for that or I forgot email address and pw.  I tried recover pw couple of times and got blank response emails.  or ones claiming no such account pw or email exists   etc.   usual bs for forums you cant just go to and make comments.    thanks for your help anyway.

If you never signed up, that's easy enough to do. If you have a problem with your account, you can submit a ticket through R* Support without needing an account and they can help get you straightened out. If you need a specific link, let me know and I'll dig it up for you.

I get that you're frustrated for your own reasons but I am really just trying to help you here with getting your message through to R*.

.......and no one here is telling you that you can't post. Just trying to help you get your voice heard with the game developers directly.  

Just keep in mind that others are going to have opinions about your opinions too.  You might think that's "bs" but that's what forums are for, right?

Anyhow, feel free to take my advice / help or don't. 

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to many emails     to many passwords    to many account names.   to many links to no were .   All I did was type in red dead 2 forum and came here to bitch about this game that last update murdered !!! . I had hope a game creator would see it but instead I get a know  nothing  moderator that doesn't even know how to play texas holdem poker !  i dont want a dam moderator,  I want the guys in charge who make the game!  i'm calling them out!  I say there all YELLA !!.  there probably just kids that get there asses kicked on any game that doesn't have radar. kids that probably never picked up a deck of cards in there life.   bunch of jaspers and pole cats !

ps and who the hell came up with the word " griefer " ?  smh

pps  and before you get mad mr. moderater and punish me with your mighty power.  please keep in mind this current response is just a "JOKE"

         ment to be funny  haha amusing.  if you still don't understand , i can summit you a ticket to explain it

Edited by EYE_CANDY__
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4 minutes ago, EYE_CANDY__ said:

to many emails     to many passwords    to many account names.   to many links to no were .   All I did was type in red dead 2 forum and came here to bitch about this game that last update murdered !!! . I had hope a game creator would see it but instead I get a know  nothing  moderator that doesn't even know how to play texas holdem poker !  i dont want a dam moderator,  I want the guys in charge who make the game!  i'm calling them out!  I say there all YELLA !!.  there probably just kids that get there asses kicked on any game that doesn't have radar. kids that probably never picked up a deck of cards in there life.   bunch of jaspers and pole cats !

Few drinks tonight mate.you sound wavey.the update was very good in my eyes,probably best not to waist your time or energy on rdr2 if it ain't to your taste

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