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BIG world NOT OPEN and not REAL World


Dewy1314
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Guys I need to clarify the difference. I have heard this game called both open and real world as descriptions of this game. The game is neither. Your actions are highly restrictive your locations are highly restrictive and time unlocked you can't do 80% of the things that you can do in ANY open world game. It is a big map and there are a couple funnies but this game is not real/open world and it should not be played expecting that experience! 

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43 minutes ago, Dewy1314 said:

Guys I need to clarify the difference. I have heard this game called both open and real world as descriptions of this game. The game is neither. Your actions are highly restrictive your locations are highly restrictive and time unlocked you can't do 80% of the things that you can do in ANY open world game. It is a big map and there are a couple funnies but this game is not real/open world and it should not be played expecting that experience! 

Hi Dewey and welcome to the forums.

Personally, I find the RDR2 game world quite immersive, expansive and yeah, even open and real in some respects. I would wholeheartedly disagree with you on that point but then again, I really loved the campaign and environment mostly for those reasons.  Not sure why you're trying to change other people's minds or why that would even matter.  Some folks are simply not going to like the game due to certain aspects or agree on others take on it but that's fine.  We all play it (or not) for our own reasons.

If your intention was to bring up the point to R* about how they may describe their own game then please note that RDR2.org is a fan site (not affiliated with R*).  

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I bought this game specifically because I was told it was open world. I am not even able to do obvious things like put an animal on a cart... I don't want to change people's minds if you like the game that's great! I wanted to warn people how frustrating it is and I would never would have played this game if I had realized how restrictive it was. I'm not saying that they were not enjoyable parts to this game while I was playing the highly restrictive missions there were some points of enjoyment. But I have found myself screaming at this game because of the things I am not able to do and of the decisions that are forced upon you

As for mentioning it to R* I wouldn't bother because this is the only way they know how to program games I was led to believe that this game was different...

And the reason I started this form was specifically to give people a chance to NOT play the game, based on a different feedback then wow it's wonderful! Which is the only thing I've heard about this game and I flat-out disagree I don't want people to waste money on a mislead experience like I did

 
Edited by Kean_1
Please don't chain post. Please edit instead. Condensed your responses into one.
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fyi...  

Quote

Double/Multi-posting: Speaking of “keepin’ things tidy,” seeing the same user post two, three, eight times in a row in the same thread is just not tidy. So, if you’re the last one to post in a thread and want to post something else, just click the Edit button at the bottom of your last comment, and add it there. You can even copy/paste other people’s quotes into edits to address more than one comment. (Just make sure you “select all” when doing this.) You can post a fresh comment again after someone else posts. This also helps prevent endless thread-bumping.

I went ahead and consolidated your responses into one. 

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Thank you for the consolidation and the advice! I would like to discuss the difference though. I can give countless examples of restrictions but can you please provide at least two examples of why you think this game is open? This is only my opinion and I would love to hear other people's opinions with specific reasons! 

Edited by Dewy1314
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1 hour ago, Dewy1314 said:

I can give countless examples of restrictions but can you please provide at least two examples of why you think this game is open? This is only my opinion and I would love to hear other people's opinions with specific reasons! 

You haven't given "countless" examples, you've given an arbitrary percentage ("80% of things") and one specific example (putting animals on carts). That's it.

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1 hour ago, Dewy1314 said:

I would like to discuss the difference though. This is only my opinion and I would love to hear other people's opinions with specific reasons! 

To what end though?  My opinion won't change your opinion and vice versa.  I guess my point is that I see this as an argument I simply see no reason to engage in.  Your interpretation of what you feel is an open world experience is obviously different than mine and that won't change. .....and I have zero interest in trying to convince you otherwise.

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22 hours ago, Dewy1314 said:

It is a big map and there are a couple funnies but this game is not real/open world and it should not be played expecting that experience! 

Could you please name a game that matches that criteria?

I would be interested in playing it.

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3 hours ago, Cliffs said:

I ask why one would want to put an animal on a cart?

 

18 hours ago, Parzival said:

You haven't given "countless" examples, you've given an arbitrary percentage ("80% of things") and one specific example (putting animals on carts). That's it.

So you can carry more than one animal at a time and if you don't happen to have your horse you're not completely hindered. 

As for examples here's a few I just didn't want to start with it:

You can't go to most of the world until they let you, if you reach secret Areas before our Quest wants you to you cannot skip you can't go in the majority of buildings even though a generic house will be very easy to program, you can't beat the dead or alive nonsense in the restricted areas, you can't steal a herd or sell a herd except for the mission, if you're good at evading bounty hunters and the law you can't ever go back for any money anywhere, aspects of this game become completely locked after you realize what you need to do for them, there is no aspect of house building, you can't purchase the houses or lands for sale, this game has the capability of you building up Western Empire and they leave out every capability, they pretend like a human or horse can't climb a hill, for some reason you can't aim your gun straight up though ironically birds can read your mind, they steal your legendary parts and skins if you blink the wrong way you can't steal or buy a cart to increase your transport load, the amount of horses that you can control varies and is preposterous, and I'm really Furious that I lose the capability of swimming, and the amount of animals that I've lost on Hills that I can't climb cuz they're too steep but the animal won't roll down, and getting kicked in the face every time I look in a saddlebag is frustrating when there's nothing you can do about it, there is also no trapping in this game which is the way you catch small animals in every generation considering I couldn't get the Varmint Rifle when I wanted it. 

 

The closest game I have found to open world is Skyrim and Minecraft, Far Cry 3 and Fallout 4 much more open in my opinion than this game. 

 

One more time I would like to reiterate that I did have fun playing this game my complaint it is not open world like I was told it was going to be and the only reason I played. I am a completist however so I have completed the game to nearly 100% And I will get that Mark.

 

I hope those are enough reasons. let me know I can provide more. As I'm writing this I'm playing the game! Having fun and then screaming every time they restrict my actions!

 

A true open World game should be judged by finding the limits of the coding not by finding some Easter eggs that make you laugh.

Edited by Dewy1314
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1 hour ago, Dewy1314 said:

The closest game I have found to open world is Skyrim and Minecraft, Far Cry 3 and Fallout 4 much more open in my opinion than this game. 

I've played all but Skyrim but let me narrow this down to Fallout 4 so I dont have to spend the day typing.

Open? Why cant I build anything outside of a settlement in Fallout games? Maybe I want to start a whole new settlement of my own. Why cant I scrap out cars or wood that I find along the road? I cant plant crops outside of a settlement. The map might be larger but it isnt anymore open than red deads map.

Even Minecraft, with its 30 million blocks, is limited by being 90% water. As far as "real" goes (real/open)......Nothing in that game seems "real".

 

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28 minutes ago, buttlint said:

I've played all but Skyrim but let me narrow this down to Fallout 4 so I dont have to spend the day typing.

Open? Why cant I build anything outside of a settlement in Fallout games? Maybe I want to start a whole new settlement of my own. Why cant I scrap out cars or wood that I find along the road? I cant plant crops outside of a settlement. The map might be larger but it isnt anymore open than red deads map.

Even Minecraft, with its 30 million blocks, is limited by being 90% water. As far as "real" goes (real/open)......Nothing in that game seems "real".

 

So I'm glad you make that distinction, Minecraft is very far from real and I don't know what you're talkin about the water... Minecraft is open and I agree there are unavailable options Fall out and I'm sure you can note similar ones in Farcry. I do however feel Far cry is more open than Fallout, and I also consider it a better game. Skyrim has a fantasy feel but you can do oh so much more things so I still consider it real because I don't mind changing the premise of reality... I do disagree that far Cry is only bigger, what makes that game open is I have access to the entire map at any point in the game, and if you go to a more advanced area before they think you're ready but you're a good player then too bad programmers! I was able to hunt every animal in the game before I did a single Mission which meant I was able to upgrade all of my equipment before I did a single Mission and then I got to play the missions the way I wanted to... 

Edited by Dewy1314
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The game will not be like others but that doesn't make it more closed off or less "realistic". They are still using the same core that Rockstar is known for. If they changed their games to match what other devs do on other online open word multi-players, we'd be paying for the same game over and over again.

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You can customize and upgrade the camp in quite a few ways, just talk to Pearson and check the ledger. Considering you're part of an outlaw gang that's on the run and trying to make enough money to disappear for most of the game, buying land just seems counterproductive to me.

Putting a horse in a wagon seems unnecessary to me, too. If you have to leave your horse behind during a mission, the game always teleports it to your location after completion. And if you need to ditch it for a wagon during free roam, just whistle and the horse will follow behind you to your destination. Always keeping stocked with horse reviver pretty well prevents you from losing it during gunfights and falls and, even on the occasion that you do, you're rarely that far from a road where you can jack one from a passerby pretty easily. And even if you could load a horse in a wagon, missions and other activities would still require you to leave said wagon and the horse in it behind, completely nullifying the supposed advantage.

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2 hours ago, Parzival said:

You can customize and upgrade the camp in quite a few ways, just talk to Pearson and check the ledger. Considering you're part of an outlaw gang that's on the run and trying to make enough money to disappear for most of the game, buying land just seems counterproductive to me.

Putting a horse in a wagon seems unnecessary to me, too. If you have to leave your horse behind during a mission, the game always teleports it to your location after completion. And if you need to ditch it for a wagon during free roam, just whistle and the horse will follow behind you to your destination. Always keeping stocked with horse reviver pretty well prevents you from losing it during gunfights and falls and, even on the occasion that you do, you're rarely that far from a road where you can jack one from a passerby pretty easily. And even if you could load a horse in a wagon, missions and other activities would still require you to leave said wagon and the horse in it behind, completely nullifying the supposed advantage.

I can honestly say I spend most of my time too far from a level 4 horse for whistling, you absolutely cannot customize your Camp just because Pearson has some upgrades again highly restrictive, I'm not talkin about putting a horse in a cart but if you happen to notice it happens to be much faster I'm talking about putting several animals on said cart and as for buying land I was talking about the epilogue... 

 

But I can concede a highly good point which I will list below and may very well be the stop of my argument funny enough

3 hours ago, riptide87 said:

The game will not be like others but that doesn't make it more closed off or less "realistic". They are still using the same core that Rockstar is known for. If they changed their games to match what other devs do on other online open word multi-players, we'd be paying for the same game over and over again.

Riptide sometimes a perception change what I need... 

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4 hours ago, riptide87 said:

The game will not be like others but that doesn't make it more closed off or less "realistic". They are still using the same core that Rockstar is known for. If they changed their games to match what other devs do on other online open word multi-players, we'd be paying for the same game over and over again.

So I thought about it and I wanted an old west game which is what I felt, that feel was great! I just wanted a little more in the ways I listed above... 

Is a good interpretation what you said maybe I should find a different producer / company? I have no idea who makes the ones I like but I may pursue games in that way now. 

Because you're absolutely right it has the GTA feel which is a different type of experience. 

 

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The problem is here that Rockstar don't have an infinite amount of code-monkeys and an infinite amount of time to allow them to create a game that allows the player to do everything that you want from it.  They also don't have an infinite amount of money to throw at the said room full of infinite code-monkeys.

The basic economics of software development means that software companies have to spend less making a game than they expect to make in profits.  Adding huge amounts of complications into the game won't sell many more games, but will significantly increase the money needed to make those changes.  Although notionally, these changes might seem small, in terms of software development and the RAGE engine, they are nowhere near trivial.

As it happens, RDR2 was scheduled to be released in 2017, it ended up being delayed by a year.  We know that some of the plot was re-written, and we can assume that some of the game mechanics were extended/re-written/added.

The quality of the game that they eventually released is evident in the unanimous high scores and good reviews it's received.  This tells us (and Rockstar) that the balance between playability and complexity was about right.

I am quite frankly amazed that Rockstar put so much effort into the single-player aspect of this game considering how much revenue is generated by the online aspects these days.  Most campaign stories of the Call of Duty games involve 20 or so hours (often less).  The recent Tomb Raider games are more open, but still have little to offer the single player.

You can't put animals on a cart because most people won't bother.  you only need to take animals to camp in order to fulfill one of the challenges - every other time, you can give Pearson butchered meat.  And there's no real need to do that either after a certain point.

Sometimes you shoot stuff and you can't get to the kill.  Well, that's real enough.

Horses aren't mountaineers.  Well, that's real enough.

You can't buy land and build a house outside of the script. I can't see many players getting excited about doing this when they can feed night-folk to the gators instead.

John can't swim.  That's pretty real - you need to find another way of getting across water.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to run off and find a chipmunk and an oriole.

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6 hours ago, Dewy1314 said:

I can honestly say I spend most of my time too far from a level 4 horse for whistling, you absolutely cannot customize your Camp just because Pearson has some upgrades again highly restrictive, I'm not talkin about putting a horse in a cart but if you happen to notice it happens to be much faster I'm talking about putting several animals on said cart and as for buying land I was talking about the epilogue...

So you're regularly running off and leaving your horse. That sounds like your doing rather than any fault of the game.

Why don't Pearson's customization options count as customizing the camp? Sounds to me like you're upset that you have to actually work for them instead of being spoon fed them.

Okay, you weren't referring to horse, but I pose the same question: what real need is there in putting animals on a cart?

Exactly how far into the epilogue are you?

Edited by Parzival
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28 minutes ago, Parzival said:

So you're regularly running off and leaving your horse. That sounds like your doing rather than any fault of the game.

Why don't Pearson's customization options count as customizing the camp? Sounds to me like you're upset that you have to actually work for them instead of being spoon fed them.

Okay, you weren't referring to horse, but I pose the same question: what real need is there in putting animals on a cart?

Exactly how far into the epilogue are you?

I'll give you that it's my fault that I'm leaving my horse I get much more frustrated at the fact that I never have my weapons because every time I get off my horse it auto empties my wheel which is why I try to stay off my horse so that I can keep my two favorite weapons

I got all the upgrades there is just a lack of choice

So that you can carry more than one large skin at a time and more than one full carcass to the butcher so you can stay out in the wilderness for a while and come back with a big old load of animals...

Spoiler

I'm past the ranch is that you couldn't upgrade or pay off by yourself, but luckily uncle was there to do all the work for you... 

There are a couple locations in the game where it says Ranch for sale and a few post boards that have land for sale... if you can't buy them they shouldn't be in the game

 

Edited by Dewy1314
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I can honestly say that i have watched well over 100 western style movies, read many more books than that and have even researched the way of life in the Wild West for a school paper, yet, I cannot remember any one person who went hunting and had to bring a cart with them to load all their kills.

 

As for the open world, the only map I did not have all open, well before I finished the game (but not the Epilogue) was New Austin

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31 minutes ago, Cliffs said:

As for the open world, the only map I did not have all open, well before I finished the game (but not the Epilogue) was New Austin

If I recall correctly, there was nothing stopping you from going into New Austin, you just had to be one bad-assed hombre or a sneaky sob to survive over there. I dont believe that there were any barriers but the NPCs were intense and not interested in collecting "alive" bounties. 

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I understand where the OP is coming from.

Ive never played an open world game, this was my first experience with such a thing, and I guess if that is your thing, you have played others and seen the evolution of this genre then I can see where a person might say in a literal sense, this is not an open world game such as XYZ for example, in those open world games you can do ........ and in all open world games you expect .......... but in RDR2 you are somewhat limited.

Whatever Genre it technically is in, I love it, as far as an interactive massive world, it is great, and as a player with no other experience in this type of game, I really enjoyed it very much, the graphics, physics, npc's Ai, and other things are so over the top fantastic compared to ANY game ive ever seen or played and it really is very rewarding and emotional to play, the vista's and sunsets the horse and all animal animations for example are awesome.

But if you bought it so you could do the exact things that you can not do, like load animals in carts, then I can see being a little disappointed in that it wasnt what you expected and you feel a need to share that with others.

Im not sure here is the best place for it, since in here are all fans, these people already have and love the game, well most anyway, but again, I get what you are saying.

That aside, did you enjoy the game?

Did you even play it all or did you bail when it wasnt what you expected?

Either way, I hope this is the start of things to come, if this isnt an open world, I cant wait to experience one with this level of physics and graphics, and hopefully we will start seeing them more and more now.

I have Far Cry 5 also, I havent played it much yet, I started to then I bought this and I havent touched any game since, I just cant, after playing RDR2 nothing else hits the spot for me.

PS. I went to New Austin as Arthur, caught the legendary fish, and animals and saw a few sights too before I went back to craft my talismans and trinkets.

I personally think, if we had given R* another year and $5 million dollars more, they would have just kept  on grinding details and coming up with even more, but sadly business is very serious and they had to stop at some point, clearly it is the most advantageous attempt yet in my opinion.

Edited by lumper
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9 hours ago, Dewy1314 said:

I'll give you that it's my fault that I'm leaving my horse I get much more frustrated at the fact that I never have my weapons because every time I get off my horse it auto empties my wheel which is why I try to stay off my horse so that I can keep my two favorite weapons

that's easily fixed by choosing your weapons before jumping off the horse.  it only empties the wheel after a camp or death that i can recall off hand, might be other triggers for that.

 

9 hours ago, Dewy1314 said:

So that you can carry more than one large skin at a time and more than one full carcass to the butcher so you can stay out in the wilderness for a while and come back with a big old load of animals...

Pointless, the carcasses would rot and you'd be left with a wagon of putrid flesh.

There is no "real open world" game, all games have restrictions and limits to what you can do, so does life.  So yeah i guess you could say this is a "real" game.

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Lumper I can't thank you enough for taking the time of day to critically view a critique, I actually love the game and I spent over two and a half hours playing my only problems with the word ones that I mentioned and that is my exact problem because there were specific things that I wanted to do that I couldn't do no matter what I tried I was even able to steal a train and loaded up with animals until they de spawned them on me. 

The game also has completely changed my brain because now any time I see a bird in real life I want to aim at it lol. 

I have learned that you were correct that this was the wrong place the post this, because I have found that these fans are too Rah rah cheerleaders, I specifically didn't want to post it anywhere else because I didn't want critics to take my post and run with it I actually wanted to talk about it with people who enjoyed the game but obviously people can't have any negatives with their 100% positive! The only thing that I have learned from this post is that I do not play like other people as I have been repeatedly told quote you wouldn't want to do that or you wouldn't want to do that or you wouldn't want to do that that's dumb meanwhile I never even considered feeding somebody to win alligator or putting somebody on the train tracks until I saw a different post. Not Everybody Plays the same and I saw this may be a forum for that it clearly was not. 

 

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6 hours ago, Dewy1314 said:

I have learned that you were correct that this was the wrong place the post this, because I have found that these fans are too Rah rah cheerleaders, I specifically didn't want to post it anywhere else because I didn't want critics to take my post and run with it I actually wanted to talk about it with people who enjoyed the game but obviously people can't have any negatives with their 100% positive!

The only thing that I have learned from this post is that I do not play like other people as I have been repeatedly told quote you wouldn't want to do that or you wouldn't want to do that or you wouldn't want to do that that's dumb meanwhile I never even considered feeding somebody to win alligator or putting somebody on the train tracks until I saw a different post. Not Everybody Plays the same and I saw this may be a forum for that it clearly was not. 

.....and btw, this was precisely why I responded the way I did about not wanting to get into this discussion with you.   When you asked for our opinion, I had a feeling  what you really wanted was reinforcement of your point of view.  ....and when people questioned and provided counter arguments to your points,  you conveniently pull the fanboi card which is somehow supposed to diminish their legitimacy I guess. It's dismissive regardless and as I said at the beginning, really pointless to argue in that case.

What puzzles me though is that you seemed receptive to the open and honest responses (even admitting they may be right in some respects) but then call them out as cheerleaders?  ....ok then.

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I don’t think that anyone is blindly flag waving for Rockstar. 

People here just have a shared understanding of what constitutes an “open world game” in that there’s a level of freedom of movement across the map and flexibility in that you can do. 

Theres a complaint here that Red Dead 2 can’t be classed as being “open world” because you can’t perform various actions or activities. The issue is with that complaint is that this kind of truest open world where you’re not limited by your imagination is probably decades away.  As I said before, the scope of games right now are limited by time, money, resources, and the commercial drive to make more money than the game takes to develop. 

This isn’t fan boy flag waving, it’s an accepted understanding of how games are. 

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45 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

.....and btw, this was precisely why I responded the way I did about not wanting to get into this discussion with you.   When you asked for our opinion, I had a feeling  what you really wanted was reinforcement of your point of view.  ....and when people questioned and provided counter arguments to your points,  you conveniently pull the fanboi card which is somehow supposed to diminish their legitimacy I guess. It's dismissive regardless and as I said at the beginning, really pointless to argue in that case. 

What puzzles me though is that you seemed receptive to the open and honest responses (even admitting they may be right in some respects) but then call them out as cheerleaders?  ....ok then.

I was open to and respectful of any point that talks about the programming or aspects of the game and I believe I even conceded a few points on some of my complaints, what I did not expect or appreciate was being told I shouldn't have tried the things that I tried or that nobody would want to do that because clearly people did or at least one person did( I didn't directly respond to those points because I did not foresee that path going civilly) . I know there are other people who agree with me as evident in other posts. And I wanted to have an area where we could discuss those issues

I respected your lack of Desire to make any points, but there's a big difference between making a point and telling me my point is wrong which seems to be the argument of 2019. 

The Original Point which foxtrot just addressed was the difference between an open and big interactive game. Disagreeing with me is fine. I really do love this game it's not a fanboy card or an attempt to delegitimize actual arguments, but I can love something and still have problems with it... 

Lumper disagreed with me he just also saw my point I'm not looking just for reinforcements

Edited by Dewy1314
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