Kean_1

.....I think you misquoted me there.

I don't think the term has been overused personally. If you ask folks that have been using the label you'll likely get an immediate reaction form most that missions are not the same thing. That is an event that other players are invited to play as adversaries. Those particular missions are PvP events. Those who have been complaining about trolls have been very descriptive in what they consider griefing in these threads.

This is a fan site and not an official forum. The mods know about as much as we do. The problem is that R* doesn't really provide this information in one place if at all.

Yeah, I use the MTU setting (on PS4) to get me into private sessions and it works 9 times out of 10. I typically play solo and this was the only way I could play in public session in that game. I tried the same thing on RDO and it times out if it can't throw you in with anyone. On the other hand, my friends and I have found ourselves in our own sessions on more than one occasion randomly. Thing is, unlike GTAVO, I've probably played about half or more of the total hours I've spent in RDO alone. That wouldn't have been possible (or bearable IMO) in GTA but it is in RDO due to the slower nature of the game, etc. If they get the anti-griefing right, I may not mind Free Roam even if we do get private sessions.

Yeah, the Arabians are definitely more skittish IME. I have the Red Chestnut Arabian and it gets spooked pretty easily. .....not to the point of throwing me but it does sort of fight me at times unless I calm it down. To be honest, I didn't see a huge difference in speed from the horse I had for free from the first mission. ....not considering the other stats of course.

...anything to help balance it out in Free Roam would be nice but I would also like to see private session options. That was one thing that wa nice about GTAV:O. .....other than the fact that a lot of the money making businesses were locked to open sessions only.

....and my question would be, what makes you assume RDO will go the route of the outrageous like GTA did? ....because of GTA? Again, they already have a successful franchise in GTA and (personally) I see no benefit in trying to duplicate everything that GTA was. Sure, they will borrow some elements from that game but I still think they will go a more "serious" or "time period" route with RDO. GTAV was all about things over the top, indulgent, ridiculous and silly. An over dramatization of modern society and "what ifs". RDR2 wasn't like that and I don't think they would go that route with RDO. The UFO reference was an Easter egg found in the main game. You find a note and then travel to a certain location and there is an event that you can witness. Personally, I don't see any indication from an Easter egg like that that would lead me to believe that they will put UFO's in the game that we can fly, etc. I never tried to look for it but there are videos on it and tutorials on how to find it. That's not to say that a future mode won't come along akin to RDR1s Undead Nightmare. I don't know what to say. I'm not going to dwell or speculate on all the bad things that can happen in this game that we don't know about yet. For now, I'm going to continue to enjoy it as is and cross those bridges as we come to them.

I got gloves but yeah, they don't match as well with my outfit. .....good call.

Well, we already have evidence that they will use a similar, MTX business model with RDO. GTAO was proof that R* has the most successful GaaS model in the business. That's already happening now and in all honesty, I don't have a problem with it although I know some do. The way I look at it, it helps to keep the content coming and the game alive for much longer than it would without one. .....but then again, some are against any form of MTXs and that will never change. I still play GTAO and I've never spent a dime on Shark Cards. .....but I've got plenty of businesses, weapons, vehicles, properties and money. I tend to revisit after they add new stuff. The wagons are no surprise. It was already leaked a couple months ago by dataminers that they discovered some in the code (e.g. small coach, chuck wagon, chuck wagon with gatling, supply wagon, utility wagon and a war wagon). ....and of course there will be new weapons and other types of new content as I would hope and expect they would have. It would be pretty boring if the current weapons were all they ever released IMO. The data miners also uncovered possible evidence of properties people may be able to buy just like in GTA. Again, more content for people to spend their money on. IMO, what's the point in making the money if you can't spend it on things. A lot of which is going to be purely cosmetic fluff which people enjoy. The same team also uncovered data in the app that points to private lobbies and "seamless PvE" (whatever that means). R* only just announced last Friday that they acknowledge and will address the trolling issue with new anti-griefing measures after the holidays. It's only been a little over two weeks and RDO is still just a beta. I prefer to give them some time to see what they do. ....and even then, as long as people continue to provide their constructive feedback on their site, we could possibly see further changes. I will say it again, RDO trolling is nowhere near the level it is in GTAO and there's a reason for that. Things tend to move at a slower pace. The fastest way to travel in this gameworld is by horse and even when the wagons become available, I highly doubt they will make them as fast or faster than our mounts. In all honesty, I see things like armed wagons as more defensive than offensive but again, we'll just have to wait and see how it all shake out. I'll reserve judgement until then. Different strokes for different folks but I have to tell ya, playing with like-minded friends in RDO is way more fun and rewarding than playing solo. RDO isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea right now or even after the beta is over. ....and that's fine. Who knows, depending on the direction, I may end moving on to something else as well. Ubi burned me on FC5 and the direction they took GRW / GW after release. They killed the AC series for me after BF. If there is one company that I can say I have the least faith in (other than Hello Games), it would have to be Ubi right now. Having said that, I heard they were going to reduce TTK in the Division 2 which actually caught my interest (the original was way too bullet spongy for me). Depending on what my friends do, I might just pick it up too.

People who start late are always going to be at a disadvantage in a Free Roam mode like this regardless of whether there is an shortcut MTX system in place or not. If anything, one could argue that the gold bars will help some to get caught up when starting out. ....but like I said, I haven't played nearly as much as some folks around here and I've already got a lot of the good weapons in the game (all fully upgraded). I wouldn't consider myself at a disadvantage even while playing with people at levels twice or more than mine. You've also got to remember that posses make a huge difference and I would encourage anyone starting out to group together with one. My friend and I took a new player under our wing the other night and helped him level up a bit and get some dough for new weapons in one session. As for outrageous additions to the game, I simply don't see them doing the same thing as GTAV:O in RDO but I'm not going to try to convince you different. You've had a pretty negative view of RDO even before release and I can't say I blame you. ....GTAO didn't leave much of an impression on me either but I still don't believe R* is interested in doing a carbon copy of that game given that it still exists side by side with RDO. Personally, I prefer to take a wait and see approach to find out how things will shake out. Even with some of the flaws my friends and I are having a blast with the game. Even though I think the griefing needs to be addressed (which they said they will), it is still nowhere even close to the levels seen in GTA and is mostly avoidable IME. In fact, I rarely ever get trolled anymore. It usually only happens when I spawn in or purposely take risks (usually when I'm with friends). I'll wait and see how it goes before I make any final judgements on the game.

ok, ok.... Maybe I'll get a hat too.

Sorry, it was the PS4 early exclusive.

It was a leak based on what data miners had found in the code. They discovered a list of vehicles: Properties were also listed but with no real details. .....just 10 placeholders.

The gold bar system isn't what I would consider a P2W model. P2W models are what you typically find in free-to-play games and/or where you find better weapons, vehicles, etc. locked behind a paywall. In other words, you have no alternative but to pay to get anything better than what is given to you so you can gain an advantage or at least stay on a level playing field. RDO isn't like that. It's a shortcut model much like GTAV:O. In RDO, all of the items are still available to players who choose not to buy gold bars. Gold is even awarded (albeit typically in nuggets) through treasure hunts and missions. ......but beyond that, you can still buy what you need with in-game cash. The only items I've seen locked behind Gold Bars are cosmetic as R* said. .....horse insurance once was but they fixed that early on. Hell, I've only played about 25 hours and I'm level 19 with an Arabian horse, Lancaster, 2 Schofields, pump action shotgun, bolt action rifle and they are all upgraded. Even just with the money and gold given to us by R* so far, it doesn't take much to have a decent loadout. Even the Varmint rifle which seems really popular with headshot artists is only about $75. .....although IMO its to OP for what it is.

I spent money on a cross draw holster so I could carry two side arms. I think I spent it on a couple weapon mods as well, a coat and that's about it. I still have 6 or so left over. The fact is, I'm not having a hard time collecting money for what I need. I've already got the main weapons I wanted (e.g. Lancaster, pump shotgun, 2 Schofields, bolt action rifle, etc.). .....and tricked them all out. I've got an Arabian for a horse and insurance on it.

This has been my experience as well. Players will actually turn to ghosts while transacting after you press L2. Once you are done, that's it. .....you're free game. Btw, R* already announced last week that griefing was one of the more popular complaints they have received and will be implementing new "anti-griefing" measures after the holidays. .......so whether some choose to dismiss the issue or not, all that matters to me is that a large part of the feedback they've been receiving has exposed it, R* acknowledges it and they will be doing something about it. What exactly that will be, we'll just have to wait and see. The game is still in beta and a work in progress so I'm not too bound up over it for now. I think what's important to note is that R* does read the feedback and it's more important now more than ever to submit yours if you have any.

....absolutely not. ....IMO. 1) I don't want to be griefed and then sent far away from my camp. Other choices that sound better to me to mitigate this issue are giving the victim an option where to spawn (back near the site or at their camp). ......or make their horse spawn net to them so they can actually have a chance to get away, etc. 2) Stranger missions are plenty challenging. Yeah, some are uneventful but then again, I've been swarmed by other players too. THe incentive is to complete the mission otherwise you don't get the payout. Why do you want to punish players further? 3) I don't know about you but being mauled by a grizzly is already plenty scary. Plus, don't you lose your pelts when you die? Again, why punish players further? 4) Assassinations are already easy enough to escape IMO but I would get rid of the mechanic all together or make it an "opt in" choice. .....but that's just me. 5) Death already has its drawbacks. IMO, punishing players by sending them back to the same starting point over and over is not "fun" and in fact I would find it downright annoying. ....not only for myself but my posse. Can you imaging losing a player and then having to rendezvous again with your group every time? No thanks. This also can work in favor of kill squads as a victims teammates are sent packing each time they die. Skirmishes between willing posses would also be really short and boring as players are sent back to their camps all over the map. .....etc., etc. No offense but I think it's a bad idea. .....although I like the idea of bounties on griefers. Either way, R* already announced that they will be implementing new anti-griefing measures so I'd like to see how that shakes out.

Well, I think it's obvious to them that many others felt the same way and they say they are going to do something about it. While I know some will assume the worse, I'm going to take a wait and see approach. Changes will be coming after the holidays.

Well, I'm no spring chicken either (past the half century mark myself) so I get what you're saying about folks who take themselves too serious. ....and yeah, I don't think it's anything more than just a game but the whole reason I play games is to have fun. ......and being the target of griefers is simply not what I call fun. I want to enjoy the other activities in the game, explore, play the missions, etc. I'm far from a roleplayer, I love to screw around and even enjoy a level of risk from other players, but in a game that requires you to grind for your money, it's gets old really fast when some folks just want to go around ruining others experience. Especially in a game mode that gives those types of players an unfair advantage. There is no advantage to doing this except for the enjoyment that the griefers get out it. Personally, I hope they implement private sessions soon and balance the gameplay in Free Roam. IMO, the game should be fun for everyone and right now, it just isn't. I've learned to get around the problem of griefing for now but it's obvious that a lot of others are just fed up. I think folks should be able to be "bad guys" but I also think that there should be consequences. .....e.g. bounties other players can collect, law / posses that react, etc. Maybe even making zones of various risk with varying levels of law enforcement / response. As it is, there is simply no or little risk involved for this behavior. .....and btw, there are still plenty of ways of being a "bad guy" in this game without going around randomly bullying and killing fellow players. IMO, the problem is R*s way of trying to blend PvP and PvE together in one mode without some form of balance. Hopefully they remedy that soon.

If someone does ride up on me but does it in a such a way that isn't provocative and slow (without a gun drawn), I'll give them benefit of the doubt, I've done it before. In one recent session I had someone send me friend request and then appear near us. I thought he rode up unnoticed while my friend and I were busy looting. Luckily, we didn't shoot mainly because he simply stood there with no weapon drawn with a few yards distance between us. It turned out it was the new player I had just befriended. He said that he expected that we were going to shoot. lol

It has nothing to do with being too serious but everything to do with wanting to enjoy the game as well. IMO, it's not fun (or worth it) to lose a horse full of pelts or get tied up and dragged around, etc. simply for someone else's amusement. The fact is, there are no repercussions at the moment for griefers as I believe there should be. ......and no, I'm not being too harsh. The whole purpose of someone killing you while you're minding your own business is to cause them grief. .....hence the name. Either way I could care less if griefers feel offended by the term or if some folks think we are being too serious because in the end R* has recognized that one of their top complaints is regarding this problem and will be doing something about it after the holidays. Hell, even they recognize and use the term griefers/griefing.

Well, in my mind it all depends on the situation. Personally, I'm not dumb enough to go riding up on someone who is off the beaten track, skinning an animal, fishing, etc. I'm smart and courteous enough give other players a wide berth to make them feel more at ease in regard to my intentions. If someone is dumb enough to make a beeline for me in one of those instances, yeah, I'm going to shoot first and IMO, they deserve it. Having said that, I will not shoot first at people on roads, in towns or in other similar situations where they may be simply going about their business. If someone rides up on me to go to the butcher for instance while I'm there, I'm going to hold my fire. .....but then again, i'm not going to linger. I will get on my horse and put some distance between us as soon as I'm through. When I pass people on roads, I continue going but swing wide if possible. It's when people make deliberate moves (and especially quick moves) toward me is when we have a problem. With that in mind, I rarely ever have had to draw on someone because they got too close while playing solo. I make every effort to keep my distance even when I see someone coming toward me when they shouldn't (e.g. off the road, in the wilderness, etc.). .....and that in mind mind is nothing like the griefers that kill with no reason.

Tenti is right....... RDR2.org is a fan site and not an official forum of R*. You need to submit your feedback to the website they have established here: https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/online/feedback?step=addb2b0b I might also suggest their Support site but given nature of the request, I think your best bet is with the site above.

I missed this in yesterday's R* Newswire but it looks like troll complaints were one of the most popular bits of feedback R* has been receiving during the beta. ......and apparently, they're doing something about it:

I'm spreading this around to get the news out. From yesterday's R* newswire: Keep that feedback coming to the R* website. They are listening and have obviously heard the massive complaints about trolls. Let's hope the solution helps.