The term griefer

[Savage_Reaper]

7 minutes ago, madfretter said:

If you stop what you were doing to fight back or leave the server you are allowing another person to dictate how you play the game. I do not concede to people, so this system doesn't work for me. I don't feel we should need to jump servers every time some tool decides to gun me down as I'm skinning a buck. We should have the option to jump into  one server and play with like minded people. And that goes for both PVE and PVP players.  The game and player base are large enough to support full servers for both sides. 

R* doesn't want you to be in PVE only mode earning money with no risk. They want you to buy Gold. And if you are grinding away in a Farmville mode, you most likely will not buy Gold and have a ton of cash. Why do you think they nerfed hunting? 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Savage_Reaper

[Kean_1]

As if we really needed another discussion regarding the choice of terminology used in what some people (a lot of people) consider a problem in this game.  Its a moot point that has nothing to do with the root of the argument except to maybe try and legitimize the practice.

This isn't about semantics. It's really about a disagreement on how indiscriminate killing of others this game should be handled.  ....or not. 

Btw, the whole idea of bringing up kills during missions that invite players to participate as aggressors is diversionary.  Most folks around here describing their issues  with griefing are not talking about kills during missions. I know I'm not.

Either way, even R* describes indiscriminate killing as an act of griefing and they themselves use the term "griefers" to describe those who do it.  That s good enough for me.

[madfretter]

11 minutes ago, Savage_Reaper said:

R* doesn't want you to be in PVE only mode earning money with no risk. They want you to buy Gold. And if you are grinding away in a Farmville mode, you most likely will not buy Gold and have a ton of cash. Why do you think they nerfed hunting? 

I know how R* works, but  PVE players buy in game currency as well.  There are quite a few surveys that show short term players spend more money on in game items because they don't play enough to win the games to earn those items.  Sounds more like PVE player than a  PVP player to me. GTA has private lobbies,  ghost mode, passive mode and it is one  of highest grossing games of all time,  totaling well over 6 billion dollars. They achieved that by making everyone happy, because that keeps  people playing the game.  How much  gold will people buy if they are playing Anthem instead of RDR2?

[Zampen]

Ok then im a griefer too sometimes i realize. Thanks for the explanation of the term. I do hope all Will be happy in the end but im beginning to Think this is the start of the end for rdr2 atleast 4 me, its just not fun anymore  

[pluck3]

ill share my point of view... i recreated a second character i was lvl 56,with my new character after doing the first matchmaking where you unlock online free roam ... i know i got to go to the yellow mission point SF in my map to start the story on-call mission... on my way there i am lvl 2 or 3 ... 3 player level 115-145-189 got on a power trip and started killing me back to back to back .. 100% spawn kill  yo i got only a cattleman revolver , i got no food , you are 3 lvl hundreds spawn killing a level 3 , what the **** is wrong with these people ... i dont call that griefing i call that being a real asshole , heres a second story ,  i go afk 10 minute to run to store , when i came back , two guy had me hogtied and travelled miles away in a forest in a small house , when i was taking back my controller they were throwing me on a bed , like a god damn viol . atleast now theres a update where actually you ccan parley as soon as some1 kill u

[Don Allison]

Hi rdro fans to handle griefing on rdro, rockstar should implement pvp free roam and pve free roam then and i think only then will griefing will stop. Thusly this will bring back players whom left like myself. Plus it will give low ranked players a chance to level up and then be able to compete in pvp events with same weapons and ammunition to make it fair and then in pvp free roam could go back to showing locations of all players on the on the map thus on pve we could find and track our friends playing in the game. Hope this gets to rockstar developers

Edited March 2, 2019 by Don Allison
Thanks for the replies to my post but may i add that its hard to deal with griefers when you spend 20 to 30 minutes hunting getting hides and carcasses just to have them taken away from you cause griefers wait where you sell them.

[Kean_1]

20 minutes ago, Don Allison said:

Hi rdro fans to handle griefing on rdro, rockstar should implement pvp free roam and pve free roam then and i think only then will griefing will stop. Thusly this will bring back players whom left like myself. Plus it will give low ranked players a chance to level up and then be able to compete in pvp events with same weapons and ammunition to make it fair and then in pvp free roam could go back to showing locations of all players on the on the map thus on pve we could find and track our friends playing in the game. Hope this gets to rockstar developers

Hi Don and welcome to the forums.

Please note that this is a fan forum.  Anyone interested in actually trying to affect change in the game with their opinion and/or just want to let R* hear their feedback during the RDO beta should submit it through the website in the following link:

https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/online/feedback?step=f2e50892

Obviously we welcome you to share your thoughts, questions and experience here but you also need to use that site if you want R*'s ear. 

[Xped]

2 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

This isn't about semantics. It's really about a disagreement on how indiscriminate killing of others this game should be handled.  ....or not. 

 I agree 100%.  What many would call a "griefer", I have sub-categories to break it down even further into moral and immoral groupings. It's semantics for sure.

Either way, you're right.  This is more about how people envision this game should be played.  

Personally, I like the challenge and excitement of not knowing what another player may or may not do.  Of course, not to the levels of what I would consider to be harassment.  I believe this game should have acceptable levels of killing in free roam...for whatever the reason may be (for fun or sport, for preemptive strikes, to protect the area in which one has staked a claim, etc).  The reason does not matter to me such as the reason in RL a deer does not care why a hunter hunts it.  The deer just thinks about surviving.  It is what it is.  This game, to me, is to stay alive while obtaining the resources required to make me a better player.

I am curious to all those people who claim they want a murder-free free roam.  What are you trying to accomplish when you hunt, fish and pick herbs? You're gaining XP and $$$ for what reason?  To dress up your Ken and Barbie dolls?  Or, are you trying to become a stronger more powerful character in order to protect yourself from others that will try to kill you.  There has to be a reason why you want to rank up other than just for the sake of ranking up. No?  Maybe I'm wrong.

And for the record, I don't believe most who would be considered to be griefers are the anti-Christ.  They're not necessarily deranged  individuals and psychopaths because they play this within the parameters of the game.  This is a game people.  Don't take it so seriously! Play it if you like....play something else if you don't like it.  Life's too short to worry about this kind of stuff.  I'll most likely play it either way and will simply adapt my game style to whatever the devs come up with.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Xped

[BropolloCreed79]

8 minutes ago, Xped said:

Personally, I like the challenge and excitement of not knowing what another player may or may not do. 

I see folks say this a lot, here and other places, and I maintain the position that giving everyone a toggle (with a cool down) does nothing to diminish that enjoyment if the status is not flagged on the map or HUD, but kept private.

If anything, I could argue that it enhances this "excitement" and adds a layer of strategy and complexity to the game.

Literally the only downside is that Griefers will have to actually put in some effort to grief.  Cheap, easy thrills are their stock in trade, and eliminating their main avenue of aggrieving would be a step in the right direction for all parties.

[Kean_1]

14 minutes ago, Xped said:

I am curious to all those people who claim they want a murder-free free roam.  What are you trying to accomplish when you hunt, fish and pick herbs? You're gaining XP and $$$ for what reason?  To dress up your Ken and Barbie dolls?  Or, are you trying to become a stronger more powerful character in order to protect yourself from others that will try to kill you.  There has to be a reason why you want to rank up other than just for the sake of ranking up. No?  Maybe I'm wrong.

And for the record, I don't believe most who would be considered to be griefers are the anti-Christ.  They're not necessarily deranged  individuals and psychopaths because they play this within the parameters of the game.  This is a game people.  Don't take it so seriously! Play it if you like....play something else if you don't like it.  Life's too short to worry about this kind of stuff.  I'll most likely play it either way and will simply adapt my game style to whatever the devs come up with.

......and no offense but there again are the broad strokes that are used to paint a picture of those who voice their concerns with griefing.  .....sprinkled with a helping of dismissiveness. 

I can't speak for others but if you ask me what I ever wanted from Free Roam?   .....balance.   I'm ok with the PvP element but I was not ok with the way the gameplay was balanced.  Personally, I think the latest changes in the last update are a step in the right direction.  .....perhaps not without flaws but a good step nonetheless.

The insinuation that folks should go find something else to play if they don't like the game is all well and good but when R* is specifically asking people for their feedback to help develop RDO into the game they would like it to be, folks shouldn't blame them for providing it. Nor should they blame them when R* listens and tries to do something about it (IMO) like they have with the latest update.  If it wasn't for people submitting their feedback to R* about griefing, there would have been no change.  I get some folks would be ok with that but then there are those who would not.  .....quite a few according to R*.

What's funny is that you mention that these people shouldn't be taking the game too serious and here we are in a thread created to argue the term "griefer" being used too much for some people's taste.  I dunno, you tell me.

 

[Don Allison]

3 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

Hi Don and welcome to the forums.

Please note that this is a fan forum.  Anyone interested in actually trying to affect change in the game with their opinion and/or just want to let R* hear their feedback during the RDO beta should submit it through the website in the following link:

https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/online/feedback?step=f2e50892

Obviously we welcome you to share your thoughts, questions and experience here but you also need to use that site if you want R*'s ear. 

 

[Netnow66]

7 hours ago, Xped said:

I am curious to all those people who claim they want a murder-free free roam.  What are you trying to accomplish when you hunt, fish and pick herbs? You're gaining XP and $$$ for what reason?  To dress up your Ken and Barbie dolls?  Or, are you trying to become a stronger more powerful character in order to protect yourself from others that will try to kill you.  There has to be a reason why you want to rank up other than just for the sake of ranking up. No?  Maybe I'm wrong.

Ah, griefers...if I remember, my very first feedback to Rockstar had to do with why when I'm fishing, I'm basically standing there with a fishing rod in my hand, no map for me to see, totally defenseless. It's like my pants are down around my ankles and I can't even move to protect myself. Why, when in that mode, don't I have camp-like protection? Even when I'm hunting, I at least can be aware of my map and surroundings and I have a gun in hand. But fishing? I find myself to be totally vulnerable in that mode--and I find no reason to let griefers attack me then. If camp is supposed to offer protection (though it really doesn't...), why not when I'm fishing? Why should every griefer in the game be able to one shot me in that mode?

I could even see mutual combat in free roam, the way the Old West was before the ways of the East settled in. But that's mutual. Not griefing bullies taking advantage of players when they're trying to go to the butcher.

Many griefers say they want to live free and pot shot people "the way they did in the Old West," but they want to do it with little or no consequences. What's the going rate for murdering someone in Red Dead Online, $2? Sure, grief the way you want with little or no consequences--but that's not what happened in the Old West.

Spawn killing and back shooting while fishing or hunting populate this game--but Rockstar has actual modes in this game that highlight the shoot 'em up portions of the Old West that I want.

It also has missions that I enjoy and want more of (and I'm still trying to figure out why one of them was deleted).

Some sneaky griefer who pops me while spawning in or fishing or at the butcher isn't worth my time. That's why I just take the death, report, block, then send their name to Rockstar in my feedback asking them why they are allowing this to go on.

Now to the real reason I posted here--I personally don't want a murder-free roam (though I am tired of the griefing in this game) but I do want to rank up my character and get money.

I try to gain XP and money because the best weapons and equipment are locked behind level and cash locks.

That's why I built my character up, along with ranking up to get better hunting weapons and ammo. Hell, you even have to be a certain level to fish, right? 

What weapon should I use on that grizzly bear? I certainly don't use any of the beginner weapons.

The only thing I felt might be worth a gold purchase is that fast travel hitch in my camp--but I'm rank 54 now, so I figure I'll just grind it out--and I can do that because I did rank up and have ranked weapons and ammo to do that. XP and money are needed to do most things in this game efficiently.

I also enjoy taking down bandit camps, something I wouldn't risk without ranked up weapons and ammunition.

Sure, Mrs. LeClerk finishes Teddy off, but I want to help get rid of his boys and put him in that weakened condition for her. I can do that because I have ranked up and have the materials to do that.

 

 

[Xped]

Once you've hit level 30, you pretty much have access to all the tools required to fish, hunt , clear hideouts and do the missions successfully.  After reaching this rank, you'll have earned all the $$$ to do so, too.

Bolt action rifle (or some other rifle), varmint rifle, bow and arrow, fishing rod and lures.  Most of these are achievable by rank 15.

That's all you need.

You don't need ability cards to do what I've noted above. I think you really only need those for PvP....I stand to be corrected, though.

Maybe R* simply needs to open up the single player Epilogue for coop and add the missions found in RDO.  Sounds like that is the experience that some people are looking to have.

[HuDawg]

14 hours ago, Don Allison said:

Hi rdro fans to handle griefing on rdro, rockstar should implement pvp free roam and pve free roam then and i think only then will griefing will stop. 

This is obviously the simple solution.

I mean really.

 

We need TWO aim modes.  Free aim and Auto aim.

From there, both aim choices go into lobby choices.

Free Roam,  Friendly Free Roam, Friends Only,  Invite Only.

 

Players who can't handle getting killed by other players and have no interest in PVP should not be in the same lobby with others who do.   

 

Seriously..  Some people get killed by a player, and REPORT them?  WTF?

When I get killed by a play I get excited for a shoot out.  And adding more money to my bounty..lol

Edited March 2, 2019 by HuDawg

[Netnow66]

43 minutes ago, Xped said:

Once you've hit level 30, you pretty much have access to all the tools required to fish, hunt , clear hideouts and do the missions successfully.  After reaching this rank, you'll have earned all the $$$ to do so, too.

Bolt action rifle (or some other rifle), varmint rifle, bow and arrow, fishing rod and lures.  Most of these are achievable by rank 15.

That's all you need.

You don't need ability cards to do what I've noted above. I think you really only need those for PvP....I stand to be corrected, though.

Maybe R* simply needs to open up the single player Epilogue for coop and add the missions found in RDO.  Sounds like that is the experience that some people are looking to have.

Right now, I'm testing  dual Volcanics, though I'm pretty sure I'm going to go back to dual Semi Automatic pistols.

I prefer to use the Carcano when clearing out enemy camps but the Rolling Block for hunting. 

I prefer the Pump Shotgun to the Repeating one.

I'm not sure what rank the more interesting ammo kicks in.

The only card I've invested in is Strange Medicine.

Rank 15 weapons don't cut it for me as a rank 50 something player. No reason for me to tie one hand behind my back when I play, even if it is in PvE style playing.

[Ragee503]

This was my suggestion to R* today,

"Hey R* if you want to keep the free roam only mode the perhaps when players break the law, like killing another player, Then  start making your sheriffs and bounty hunters = to level 200. You want to be outlaw then go for it.  Please take Auto Aim off."

[madfretter]

12 hours ago, Xped said:

I am curious to all those people who claim they want a murder-free free roam.  What are you trying to accomplish when you hunt, fish and pick herbs? You're gaining XP and $$$ for what reason?  To dress up your Ken and Barbie dolls?  Or, are you trying to become a stronger more powerful character in order to protect yourself from others that will try to kill you.  There has to be a reason why you want to rank up other than just for the sake of ranking up. No?  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Are you saying that  wanting to level/gear up to kill other players is somehow different/better than wanting to level/gear up to kill npcs and animals? If so, maybe you are wrong.  R* has big plans for this game, a lot of  which might mirror what they did with GTA. The $$$ and levels could be used to buy properties,businesses , horses, vehicles and yes clothing to dress up our dolls. If you tell me you didn't spend money to dress up your varmint rifle and other guns I'd be shocked. There is so much more to this game than the run and gun. Some people fail to see that and are content with doing just that, which is fine. Others want more out of the game than auto aim and cut scene kills.

 

12 hours ago, Xped said:

And for the record, I don't believe most who would be considered to be griefers are the anti-Christ.  They're not necessarily deranged  individuals and psychopaths because they play this within the parameters of the game.  This is a game people.  Don't take it so seriously! Play it if you like....play something else if you don't like it.  Life's too short to worry about this kind of stuff.  I'll most likely play it either way and will simply adapt my game style to whatever the devs come up with.

I'm in agreement with you here, I wouldn't compare most griefers to the anti-christ. I find that they are more comparable to a red bull sipping ten year old that just was told no for the first time.

[HuDawg]

30 minutes ago, Ragee503 said:

This was my suggestion to R* today,

"Hey R* if you want to keep the free roam only mode the perhaps when players break the law, like killing another player, Then  start making your sheriffs and bounty hunters = to level 200. You want to be outlaw then go for it.  Please take Auto Aim off."

The Bounty Hunters are by far the most powerful NPCS in the game.

 

After spending 3 days fighting them off.   Some of them can take a shotgun blast to the face, and still keep coming.

Fighting off Bounty Hunters, for me at the moment.  Is probably the most exciting thing  in the game.

[Xped]

11 minutes ago, madfretter said:

 

Are you saying that  wanting to level/gear up to kill other players is somehow different/better than wanting to level/gear up to kill npcs and animals? If so, maybe you are wrong.  R* has big plans for this game, a lot of  which might mirror what they did with GTA. The $$$ and levels could be used to buy properties,businesses , horses, vehicles and yes clothing to dress up our dolls. If you tell me you didn't spend money to dress up your varmint rifle and other guns I'd be shocked. There is so much more to this game than the run and gun. Some people fail to see that and are content with doing just that, which is fine. Others want more out of the game than auto aim and cut scene kills.

 

I'm in agreement with you here, I wouldn't compare most griefers to the anti-christ. I find that they are more comparable to a red bull sipping ten year old that just was told no for the first time.

 

I am not at all suggesting there is a better way to play this game.  It was an honest question that I had in an attempt to understand the reasons why people level up.  For me, this is the first game of this type I've played. I had no interest in GTA and really know nothing about it.  I've questioned myself as to what the purpose of this online stuff was for me...trying to make sense of how I play, why I play and developing a strategy.  For myself, I have come to the belief that this is a game of survival....and survival is not all about success and happiness.

And heck yeah....I not only dress up my weapons...but I also play dress up with my Ken!!!  My remark was not to disparage anyone who does so, it was more tongue and cheek because I like it.  I enjoy that facet of the game!  Why survive if you can't do it in style! LOL

I am certainly not a run and gunner.  I rarely shoot first and I don't go looking for trouble.  If trouble starts...I will certainly engage and would enjoy it to the fullest!  I do not bother others who want to go about the game peacefully...but I also hope to have others in the game who want and exist simply to challenge me.  That, for me, is balance.  By the way, I'm only a level 35....so I'm not this big powerful thug that can run around doing what I please. I have to play carefully and strategically.  Always one eye on the radar.

I love the depth in this game and hope even more layers can be added.  I just hope they don't remove the one layer that makes this game so rewarding for me.  And that's the challenge of protecting my ground and my property that I've worked to obtain.

Essentially...I love the way this game plays now.  The only beefs I have is when something is a bug. I'm not sure R* can water their product down to appease everyone.  And I believe they could make this game a big mess in an attempt to do so.

[madfretter]

1 minute ago, Xped said:

 

I am not at all suggesting there is a better way to play this game.  It was an honest question that I had in an attempt to understand the reasons why people level up.  For me, this is the first game of this type I've played. I had no interest in GTA and really know nothing about it.  I've questioned myself as to what the purpose of this online stuff was for me...trying to make sense of how I play, why I play and developing a strategy.  For myself, I have come to the belief that this is a game of survival....and survival is not all about success and happiness.

And heck yeah....I not only dress up my weapons...but I also play dress up with my Ken!!!  My remark was not to disparage anyone who does so, it was more tongue and cheek because I like it.  I enjoy that facet of the game!  Why survive if you can't do it in style! LOL

I am certainly not a run and gunner.  I rarely shoot first and I don't go looking for trouble.  If trouble starts...I will certainly engage and would enjoy it to the fullest!  I do not bother others who want to go about the game peacefully...but I also hope to have others in the game who want and exist simply to challenge me.  That, for me, is balance.  By the way, I'm only a level 35....so I'm not this big powerful thug that can run around doing what I please. I have to play carefully and strategically.  Always one eye on the radar.

I love the depth in this game and hope even more layers can be added.  I just hope they don't remove the one layer that makes this game so rewarding for me.  And that's the challenge of protecting my ground and my property that I've worked to obtain.

Essentially...I love the way this game plays now.  The only beefs I have is when something is a bug. I'm not sure R* can water their product down to appease everyone.  And I believe they could make this game a big mess in an attempt to do so.

Ok, after reading all that  one thing really sticks out.....  Is this the first time you've played  an online game?  I ask only because this game, in the state it is in is not the best example of the online experience, lol. . If you enjoyed  the story mode of RDR2 then I would definitely recommend GTA5. Same idea, bigger story mode, lots to explore, just with faster horses. 😎

[Xped]

1 minute ago, madfretter said:

Ok, after reading all that  one thing really sticks out.....  Is this the first time you've played  an online game?  I ask only because this game, in the state it is in is not the best example of the online experience, lol. . If you enjoyed  the story mode of RDR2 then I would definitely recommend GTA5. Same idea, bigger story mode, lots to explore, just with faster horses. 😎

No, I've played online games for many years.  I'm part of a large community of gamers that have played online together since Xbox Live came out. 

This is the first game I've played like this where I did not initially understand what the purpose was.  I just jumped in and started figuring stuff out.  It was not clear to me why I was "grinding" but I did so (that sounds wrong! LOL).  The essence of the game, for me, started to reveal itself as I began to rank up.

I really enjoy RDR2 because of the western feel.  That's where the GTA game loses me.

[Ragee503]

36 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

The Bounty Hunters are by far the most powerful NPCS in the game.

 

After spending 3 days fighting them off.   Some of them can take a shotgun blast to the face, and still keep coming.

Fighting off Bounty Hunters, for me at the moment.  Is probably the most exciting thing  in the game.

Exactly my point.  Those that can handle this kind of action will get all they want and those that are just cheap shots will get their asses handed to them. I find that most players that are really good at this sort of thing are usually not the ones doing the cheap shot harassing.  Mind you not all but most I believe. So like in real life there are consequences for what you do.  And for those that can handle it, well they have something to do besides shoot me.  Problem solved.

[madfretter]

29 minutes ago, Xped said:

No, I've played online games for many years.  I'm part of a large community of gamers that have played online together since Xbox Live came out. 

This is the first game I've played like this where I did not initially understand what the purpose was.  I just jumped in and started figuring stuff out.  It was not clear to me why I was "grinding" but I did so (that sounds wrong! LOL).  The essence of the game, for me, started to reveal itself as I began to rank up.

I really enjoy RDR2 because of the western feel.  That's where the GTA game loses me.

Ok, that makes more sense....lol.. I couldn't imagine you  just now  playing online for the first time.  Yea, telling people you grind for fun will get you more than a a few stares.

[Melizmator]

Come on people close this good for nothing post everyone concerned knows how to tell one from another it's like telling white from black though with new Daly challenges like kill 5 players with specific weapon griefing is losing its essence

[BropolloCreed79]

8 minutes ago, Melizmator said:

Come on people close this good for nothing post

No.

[madfretter]

14 minutes ago, Melizmator said:

Come on people close this good for nothing post.

To be clear, what you wrote, in this thread,  is a post.  I can delete it if you like. 😎

[Kean_1]

26 minutes ago, Melizmator said:

Come on people close this good for nothing post

You're welcome to add your input but the thread will remain.  As much as I don't agree with some of the viewpoints some have shared here including the OP, that isn't a valid reason to close the thread.  ....wouldn't you think one of us would have done it already if there was? 

Even through the disagreements in this discussion, folks are still remaining civil.  If something is breaking the forum rules we would encourage you to report it.  If something or someone is simply rubbing the wrong way you have the option to pass over the thread, the post and/or use the ignore feature if it's a particular member you no longer wish to view input from. 

btw, welcome to the forums.  I think you will find most here quite welcoming and generally courteous to one another.  .....even through our disagreements over topics.

[Jimblob]

I had one today while hunting in the Great Plains rode up behind me and shot me. I messaged him/her asking why he/she did it got a message back saying to come and fight him/her in Valintine, I declined saying I dont play with Griefer's and know a trap when I see it, then a few minutes later he/she turned up again in a posse I gave there leader a belly full of expolsive slug and when he respawned he was hightailing it out of the area and the posse just blinked out.

Also lets not forget most of them are most likely just kid's who are not playing the game but playing with the game as they are already bored with it but because of all the pleading they did to get Mummy/Daddy to buy it for them feel they have to be seen to be in game, and soon they  will move on to the next game and be long gone before all the good content that's coming for proper player's to enjoy launch's. Griefer's, Gankers, D**khead's or Whole Ass'es call them what you want, there not in it for the long term, so please chill and wait them out.

[Renascent]

Well this was a first for me. Some rank 25 with a horse full of pelts went by me and a couple friends standing around armadillo. We didn't have guns out and were just looking at our other friends new outfit. Dude starts shooting at us, kills my horse and almost me as I was surprised he was shooting as I walked by him earlier with no incident. Of course cuz I had my PVP set up ready, I pulled out a dynamite arrow and blew him and his horse up. He kept coming back a couple times before he just parley and left the session.

More often than not it's the low ranks doing sh*t like that. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't by accident cuz he fired about 7 times.

[The_Liquor]

Honestly, I could understand getting killed or whatever if there was a purpose for it. I don’t mind loosing my pelts because someone else legitimately robbed me and made a profit off it. But as far as I know, all you get is the same exact XP you would get if you shot the church lady NPC down the road. Therefore, the only reason at all to kill another player outside of a structured activity is just to piss them off... so yeah, I guess every single random freeroam killing is basically grieving when you break it down that way...

personaly, when I want a gunfight, I simply jump into showdown. All the fun of a shootout only instead of costing you time and ammo for nothing (and post update, a bounty) you earn something for your efforts. Also, everyone there actually wants to get into a gunfight with you. I can also live with people wanting to stop me doing a mission of some kind. Honestly, it makes those missions more fun when people attack you. It gets boring when you have no opposition and you’re sitting afk waiting out the clock... I’d rather feel a time crunch and want to drop it off as soon as I can or risk failure.

but butcher camping, or killing fishermen, or people skinning a deer... absolutely no reason for it other than to annoy other players. No, I don’t report them. But I don’t enjoy wasting my limited online time getting into endless gunfights for no profit either. I’m glad the new bounty system is in place, although I believe it needs some heavy tweaking. At least now there is some kind of risk/consequences to indiscriminate killing for no reason.

But my opinion is completely useless in the grand scheme of things. This argument has been going on since before computer gaming was even a thing...

Player: ’I kill Bob so I don’t have to cover his 5 copper shortfall on the tavern bill’

DM: ‘you loose all your powers’

Player: ‘This is BS. I’m allowed to do whatever I want! Yeah that’s the whole point of D&D!’

DM: ‘but your a lawful good paladin. And you’ve been acting like a chaotic evil crime lord since the game started’

Player: ‘but how? All I did was rob a store and burn down a village! If I wasn’t supposed to, you should’ve not put the village there’

DM: ‘fine. Rocks fall, everyone dies. I’m going home’

Edited March 2, 2019 by The_Liquor
Damn autocorrect