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Does hogtying random passers by count as griefing? And what do people get out of it?


SimonTemplar
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Had a frustrating moment yesterday.  My camp was pitched in the hills above ?Big Valley, north of Strawberry.  I was riding south, doing a bit of hunting, to gather enough for a delivery run.  There was another player camp pitched in the middle of the valley, on the bank of the river.  I saw that there were three players in the camp, but it looked rigged for hunting, they had the butcher's table, Cripps was working away, there was a big delivery wagon, and the three players were carrying rifles.  The white flag was raised.   I rode past, not through the camp, indeed I gave it a bit of a berth.  I was almost past (I had decided to head to Strawberry as there was nothing to hunt, presumably as the chaps in this camp had snagged it), when I saw a blip coming towards me from behind, leaving the camp.  I turned and tipped my hat, there was a player standing looking at me, then turned back to continue the ride south.  Then he lassos me, pulls me from my horse and hogties me.  His two pals then join and they stand there looking down at me struggling.  I hit the x button to break free, just as I do they all step back inside the camp confines, where they remained, so I couldn't retaliate (although I had given no hostile sign at any point, and had no weapon drawn at any point up until then).  I watched for a while (figuring I'd be shot in the back if I turned to leave), steadily increasing the distance between us - they were still watching - with a scoped Springfield drawn in case of an attack.  None came, distance was sufficient, I turned and rode on my way.  I checked their levels, they were 162, 92 and 9.  I'm level 54 but a relative novice who majors on collecting and hunting.  Even had I wanted to make an argument of it I wouldn't have stood a chance.

I put it down to experience, but does this happen to others?  Do others on here do this?  What do you get from it?  Not being arch, genuinely interested.  It felt like they just wanted to bully the passer by, and it only cost me a few minutes (although it wasn't fun), but I'm surprised that people bother.  I had no mic so there was no chatter with me.  How would others on here react?  Should I have wreaked terrible vengeance?  Or do you just sigh and move on?  I went with the latter but would be interested to hear what others on here would do in my position.

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Yes - unprovoked hogtying is an asshole move imo. I usually find low levels try and do it a lot around towns but thought defensive mode prevented it? Some asshat tried to lasso me while I was using the campfire near the Butcher is St Denis one time - unfortunately for him I saw him coming as I had the camera turned in his direction even tho my character's back was turned, got up and wasted him with sawn-offs. 

edit: I think some people get a bit territorial, claiming areas of the map as their own for hunting and the like and attack anyone who dares enter 'their' hood.

Edited by CosmoKramer
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They didn't kill you? Surprised. 

Sounds like a few people just screwing around.  Was probably the level 9. I wouldn't classify as griefing as they didn't kill or continue to harass after you broke free and rode off. 

I probably would have just rode off as well. Since they were at the camp. No need to delay my game for 20 minutes waiting for them to leave. 

Edit: second part of your question: No I don't do it, but I see plenty who do.  Some people see it as a shooting and killing only game, and if you're not shooting and killing then why play? ANY dot that shows up, and off they go, picking a fight.  We've got one posse member that is like that.  when he can't find a random to fight he comes after us with his hammer.  (We keep friendly fire on for realism). 

 

Edited by Freakshow9191
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Indascriminant harassment or killing of other players is essentially what defines trolling / griefing.  They can dress it up as just messing around but when its at someone else's expense, it is what it is. .....and then the fact that they did it near their camp and then retreated back to it knowing you couldn't retaliate without being labeled an aggressor.  Yeah, it's time to call a spade a spade.

This is far from engaging other players in an event or mission that openly allows for that sort of thing.

I wouldn't have rode that close but either way, I would have chalked it up to a bs move and not wasted anymore time with them.

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When the beta first launched it happened all the time to people . Now, not so much. But they just seem like they did it for their own amusement. I guarantee if you were not alone, they wouldn't have pulled that. I personally don't do that to people. I am guilty of pretending to be "AFK" sometimes to see what dumbdumbs are in the area. 

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Thanks for the responses.  Yes I confess I was waiting for the hammer to fall and one of them kill me just as I struggled free.  At which point I would have lingered in the area and not let it go until honour was even.

I am obviously naiive - you'd think I'd know better;  I am ex-law enforcement in real life! - but it didn't occur to me that they'd give me any hassle.  I had steered a berth around their camp (although was still within a 30 second sprint), but I had made an obvious deviation, and I didn't even shoot a bird within sight of the camp, so wasn't messing with 'their' hunting ground, I was literally just passing through.  So was interested in others' thoughts.

Next time I will be a lot more circumspect around other players, particularly in groups.  Maybe I have just been lucky, so far, as I simply didn't see it coming at all.

 

Thanks for the responses, all.

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1 hour ago, CosmoKramer said:

Yes - unprovoked hogtying is an asshole move imo. I usually find low levels try and do it a lot around towns but thought defensive mode prevented it? Some asshat tried to lasso me while I was using the campfire near the Butcher is St Denis one time - unfortunately for him I saw him coming as I had the camera turned in his direction even tho my character's back was turned, got up and wasted him with sawn-offs. 

edit: I think some people get a bit territorial, claiming areas of the map as their own for hunting and the like and attack anyone who dares enter 'their' hood.

I don't really know anything about defensive mode, have certainly never manually changed it (can you, or does it just react to player actions?), but I hadn't shot anyone that day, player or NPC, so I very much doubt that I was giving off any vibes yet clearly had no immunity from harm!!  (Unless defensive mode prevented them shooting me, hence the lasso?)

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39 minutes ago, SimonTemplar said:

Thanks for the responses.  Yes I confess I was waiting for the hammer to fall and one of them kill me just as I struggled free.  At which point I would have lingered in the area and not let it go until honour was even.

I am obviously naiive - you'd think I'd know better;  I am ex-law enforcement in real life! - but it didn't occur to me that they'd give me any hassle.  I had steered a berth around their camp (although was still within a 30 second sprint), but I had made an obvious deviation, and I didn't even shoot a bird within sight of the camp, so wasn't messing with 'their' hunting ground, I was literally just passing through.  So was interested in others' thoughts.

Next time I will be a lot more circumspect around other players, particularly in groups.  Maybe I have just been lucky, so far, as I simply didn't see it coming at all.

 

Thanks for the responses, all.

Not saying all groups are bad. BUT.....a lot have that tough guy pack mentality when they have the numbers. When solo I usually stay clear of groups , don't wave or anything. I'm like a ghost. Situational awareness is key. I'm not ex law enforcement, but I do have experience in security. I make it a habit in real life and in video games to always know what or who is around me. I don't trust anyone running towards me in this game unless you are on my friends list. lol

DTA

Edited by Savage_Reaper
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24 minutes ago, SimonTemplar said:


Next time I will be a lot more circumspect around other players, particularly in groups.  

Words to live by.  I expect everyone I see on the map wants to shoot me. 

I always start my day off hunting at the Cholla cougar spawn. I always hunt one extra and throw on the back of my horse.  And ride with it for the rest of the session, and then when I have a positive encounter with someone I give them the cougar. Kind of a "thanks for not being a jerk" comment. 

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If I see people in their camp, I usually wander on in and drink a bunch of their beer, then stagger out... I probably deserve to get hot tied, but it usually doesn’t happen. What those guys did to you was kind of a di*k move, but I don’t think it’s anything worth wasting more time over.

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1 hour ago, SimonTemplar said:

I don't really know anything about defensive mode, have certainly never manually changed it (can you, or does it just react to player actions?), but I hadn't shot anyone that day, player or NPC, so I very much doubt that I was giving off any vibes yet clearly had no immunity from harm!!  (Unless defensive mode prevented them shooting me, hence the lasso?)

......which might explain why and how they were able to hogtie you. 

If you're not interested in messing with others or being messed with yourself, I'd turn it on.  When you're in Offensive Mode, it basically broadcasts to folks that either  1) you simply forgot to put yourself back into Defensive Mode or  2) you're ok with being attacked or attacking others.  

While Defensive Mode doesn't make you invulnerable to attack, it gives you a big advantage against your aggressor(s).  

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43 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

If I see people in their camp, I usually wander on in and drink a bunch of their beer, then stagger out... I probably deserve to get hot tied, but it usually doesn’t happen. What those guys did to you was kind of a di*k move, but I don’t think it’s anything worth wasting more time over.

LOL! Are you on playstation? I had a guy once wander into my camp and mooch some beer. He then left, so I let him go, but if an unknown player loiters for too long in my camp, I usually roll out the welcome mat by dropping the white flag and introducing them to my shotty!

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27 minutes ago, Vaderspupil said:

LOL! Are you on playstation? I had a guy once wander into my camp and mooch some beer. He then left, so I let him go, but if an unknown player loiters for too long in my camp, I usually roll out the welcome mat by dropping the white flag and introducing them to my shotty!

I am on PlayStation. It very well may have been me I suppose. I like doing goofy random yet completely harmless things when I find other players around. It also tends to get me shot at a lot, but that’s half the fun.

Sometimes I go into towns, climb the highest rooftop I can where everyone can see, and dance the prospector’s jig. Almost without fail, everybody who passes by pulls out their rifle and aims at me while they try and decide wether I’m just a drunken idiot, or the set  up for some elaborate trap lol.

Edited by The_Liquor
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I like what kean_1 said. Only thing I see differently is I have never used defensive mode.  I'm very passive aggressive. I will not bother you and you dam well better not bother me. Hogtying me tells me your wanting to test your metal. I'm all about it son ! My best friend is dynamite arrows , I will spare no expense to show you that you picked the wrong cowboy to test yourself. Live and let live. They would pay a hefty price learning the lesson I will be teaching ! 😀

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46 minutes ago, Bucnation3139 said:

I like what kean_1 said. Only thing I see differently is I have never used defensive mode.  I'm very passive aggressive. I will not bother you and you dam well better not bother me. Hogtying me tells me your wanting to test your metal. I'm all about it son ! My best friend is dynamite arrows , I will spare no expense to show you that you picked the wrong cowboy to test yourself. Live and let live. They would pay a hefty price learning the lesson I will be teaching ! 😀

Same. I don't have time for rope games cause you gotta work out some kinky fetish. But I am also all about teaching valuable lessons if you are feeling froggy and wanna jump. 

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There are things I don’t like about defensive mode but roaming around as a bright blue dot seems to just broadcast to most people “I’m looking for trouble, let’s have it”.  By far the best thing about defensive, which makes it worth opting for, is that idiots can’t lasso you.

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4 hours ago, Freakshow9191 said:

LOL, I'm definitely gonna do that next session. 

Maybe I'll drop off a cougar, and drink some beer.  

That’s what I do. If I see a camp with a player/s & need to refill my dead eye core. I bring a three star large animal for a peace offering, especially if I see them have the butcher table for Cripps. While they pick up the animal, I sag a few beers & go on my way.

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I recently had a rather burly cowboy hogtie me and carry me into a bedroom in the Strawberry hotel.  At that point I'm begging him to just shoot me.  Thankfully I cut myself free and shot him down before I was forced to destroy my game and seek counselling.

 

Edited by Vimes
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I play only in defensive mode and since people find it more difficult now to shoot at me, their latest course of action is to pull me off my horse as soon as they spot me in a town (which results in them appearing as a red dot, they don't shoot at me right away then, I guess they're waiting for me to react in some way???). I guess that's the "town version" of getting hogtied? I did think the whole hogtie-other-players nonsense was no longer possible in defensive mode but no one has tried that on me ever since the update that introduced defensive mode, so I can't say for sure...? But I can say people can still pull me off my horse, which I find incredibly annoying. Or they just shoot my horse because it's a bigger target. I just always switch sessions immediately, I can't be bothered with griefers, but it's still annoying that they can do all that despite you giving off a clear signal of "do not bother me and I will not bother you" by being in defensive mode.

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On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 4:13 PM, Savage_Reaper said:

Not saying all groups are bad. BUT.....a lot have that tough guy pack mentality when they have the numbers. When solo I usually stay clear of groups , don't wave or anything. I'm like a ghost. Situational awareness is key. I'm not ex law enforcement, but I do have experience in security. I make it a habit in real life and in video games to always know what or who is around me. I don't trust anyone running towards me in this game unless you are on my friends list. lol

DTA

Good point - need to carry across my real-life street smarts to the game.  Lesson learned!

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:31 PM, Kean_1 said:

......which might explain why and how they were able to hogtie you. 

If you're not interested in messing with others or being messed with yourself, I'd turn it on.  When you're in Offensive Mode, it basically broadcasts to folks that either  1) you simply forgot to put yourself back into Defensive Mode or  2) you're ok with being attacked or attacking others.  

While Defensive Mode doesn't make you invulnerable to attack, it gives you a big advantage against your aggressor(s).  

Helpful stuff, thank you - I hadn't given it a thought.  I have always kept my guard up in towns, but when out in the wilderness doing some hunting I just figured we were all there for the same thing.  I am level 20 collector and trader but dragging my heels on bounty hunting, so that's an insight into how I play the game.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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