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Time for a huge question to be answered.


Cliffs
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I keep reading all these posts from players who are ticked off with griefers or whatever you want to call them. These same complainers are saying they want to hunt and fish and be left alone.

I actually expected the online part of this great game to be like most online games..player VERSUS player not AI. In the single player game i can hunt and fish until the sun sets in the East and never get shot at, so why would i want that same experience online?

Posses (or gangs) would team up against other teams and take over camps and/or areas under others control. There would be epic fights for control of Valentine or St. Deinis, etc.

Instead I keep reading that players want to ride around this huge map and do nothing of the sort.

 

So without attacking me the OP, just what is it you expected from an online shooting game?

Edited by Cliffs
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Although I'm not really good at PvP as my reflexes are not there anymore, I don't mind getting into the occasional gun fight for a brief period. Events as you describe could be added and done in structured events, this would allow people to participate when active and go sell their wares when not.

There is no reason why this game cannot cater to both types of players, furthermore, the way the game's auto aim  is set, this will never give a true PvP feeling.

And yes, we have the single player mode for hunting and whatever, but some people would like to do those activities and exploring along side friends without having to worry about losing all their pelts and such just because some random was bored and decided to kill them while they were fishing or whatever.

Edited by BurbonChaser
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55 minutes ago, BurbonChaser said:

....but some people would like to do those activities and exploring along side friends....

This is a big one for me.  The campaign doesn't have co-op and there is no private session options now or in the foreseeable future.  Also, it's not all about hunting and fishing.  Some PvE'ers and co-op parties want to partake in the story and side missions of RDO as well like I (and my friends) do.

R* created RDO as an experience for all players (PvP and PvE alike) and they have stated time and time again:

Quote

Red Dead Online is an evolution of the classic multiplayer experience in the original Red Dead Redemption, blending narrative with competitive and cooperative gameplay in fun new ways. Using the gameplay of the upcoming Red Dead Redemption 2 as a foundation, Red Dead Online will be ready to be explored alone or with friends, and will also feature constant updates and adjustments to grow and evolve this experience for all players.

 

2 hours ago, Cliffs said:

So without attacking me the OP, just what is it you expected from an online shooting game?

....or rather, an online shooting game meant to blend PvE and PvP gameplay together. 

What do I expect?  ......balance.  

To be brutally honest, all I care about is that R* has recognized that many of their customers are not happy with the current trolling problem and they are willing to do something about it.  Whether that will help or make the problem worse is another story.

 

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1 hour ago, Kean_1 said:

This is a big one for me.  The campaign doesn't have co-op and there is no private session options now or in the foreseeable future.  Also, it's not all about hunting and fishing.  Some PvE'ers and co-op parties want to partake in the story and side missions of RDO as well like I (and my friends) do.

R* created RDO as an experience for all players (PvP and PvE alike) and they have stated time and time again:

 

....or rather, an online shooting game meant to blend PvE and PvP gameplay together. 

What do I expect?  ......balance.  

To be brutally honest, all I care about is that R* has recognized that many of their customers are not happy with the current trolling problem and they are willing to do something about it.  Whether that will help or make the problem worse is another story.

 

I for one am tired of looking over my shoulder all the time and running around in crouched position just to avoid a$$hats. There is a large community that plays the game as intended but there is also a large segment that wants to make the whole damned place a big fortnite and frankly I am tired of these people. We need invite only sessions and we need them sooner rather than later.

But the a$$hats have also paid there money and deserve to play it to there liking. So again we need invite only sessions.  The best answer in my opinion.

I continue to put that into my feedback on daily basis and I encourage all of you to do the same.

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Agree with the replies. I agree we should be able to have fun with friends and having private servers will take care of that...but open servers will never be as most of you want just due to the fact this is a shooting online game, not a hunting fishing and socializing online game.

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4 hours ago, Cliffs said:

I keep reading all these posts from players who are ticked off with griefers or whatever you want to call them. These same complainers are saying they want to hunt and fish and be left alone.

I actually expected the online part of this great game to be like most online games..player VERSUS player not AI. In the single player game i can hunt and fish until the sun sets in the East and never get shot at, so why would i want that same experience online?

Posses (or gangs) would team up against other teams and take over camps and/or areas under others control. There would be epic fights for control of Valentine or St. Deinis, etc.

Instead I keep reading that players want to ride around this huge map and do nothing of the sort.

 

So without attacking me the OP, just what is it you expected from an online shooting game?

Simply answered this game isn't Fortnite/Pubg or a Battlefield/COD game where it's all about PvP. If that's what you are seeking there are game modes specifically for that.

This game allows you to immerse yourself into the world of Red Dead, I'm going to assume you never played the first Red Dead where there were Posse's of all types in there as we well as those who engage heavily with a bit of Roleplay in them (meetings, assassinations, alliances, wars, etc.).

Also people Griefing is completely different from PvP. Literally the other day I was killed 4 times while trying to fish, firs time I brushed it off and didn't retaliate after the 3rd time I wanted to see when he would grow tired of killing a non violent person who just wanted to fish. After the 4th I got annoyed and sniped him, he then ran away and left the server. This kid didn't just kill me for the sake of PvP he completely "griefed" by just spawn killing me as I minded my own business and clearly didn't want to participate in PvP at the moment.

Now the other issue is, it isn't a matter of just PvPing which I wouldn't mind engaging in from time to time, but the fact that the servers are all Auto Aim where you can literally be running, horseback riding etc.. and the aggressor literally just has to aim and tap the analog stick a little up and shoot with an instant kill doesn't seem fun to me. Now if Free Aim was the main aiming setting then I would be okay with someone randomly shooting me which would at least give me a fighting chance.

People don't like being ran up on and instantly get killed with a headshot by someone going 20 mph on a horse, or constantly spawn killed with an easy headshot.

In short Free Roams aren't about PvPing, people like to PvP and others simply don't. Which is why my Gang doesn't kill random players unless they're hostile. There are game modes, missions etc for PvP in the game and then there are other games out there where you can go and kill people over and over again, once again RDR online isn't that.

 

I hope I don't come across as rude or condescending in any way it's hard to tell the text tone of a post lol.

Edited by Born Homicidal
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 I'm going to assume

Never assume...I still play the first game to this day.

 

To each his own style of play i guess but i know I don't approach this online game the same as single player, why, because to me that is boring as i have done most of it in single player, why would i want to go online to play the same way? I am not a griever or troll and avoid them best i can but i also don't play much online because of same.

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I have just learned to avoid people and quickly determine friendly from hostile. If I just want to hunt and fish I go to areas where no one is around. If one area that I want isn't clear then I go to the next. I have many hunting and fishing spots. I usually don't have any problems anymore now that I do that. I do check the map every so often. And if someone does come near enough that it picks up in the minimap I check to see what they are doing and get ready to run/fight. I had a pretty clear day last Friday doing the moving around thing solo. Got a lot of missions done, hunting in between, very productive with minimal pvp.

Otherwise, I don't think I could play this game without the threat of pvp. It wouldn't be challenging enough, in my opinion. I love having to be alert. I get that some people don't want to be that vigilant though. I am in favor of private lobbies, just don't change how the pvp is now.

I do think there needs to be a few more 'safe" spots to relax (ie. the damn butcher, y'all know the pain).

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1 hour ago, Renascent said:

I have just learned to avoid people and quickly determine friendly from hostile. If I just want to hunt and fish I go to areas where no one is around. If one area that I want isn't clear then I go to the next. I have many hunting and fishing spots. I usually don't have any problems anymore now that I do that. I do check the map every so often. And if someone does come near enough that it picks up in the minimap I check to see what they are doing and get ready to run/fight. I had a pretty clear day last Friday doing the moving around thing solo. Got a lot of missions done, hunting in between, very productive with minimal pvp.

Otherwise, I don't think I could play this game without the threat of pvp. It wouldn't be challenging enough, in my opinion. I love having to be alert. I get that some people don't want to be that vigilant though. I am in favor of private lobbies, just don't change how the pvp is now.

I do think there needs to be a few more 'safe" spots to relax (ie. the damn butcher, y'all know the pain).

I hear you. I do 99% of my hunting solo, and that is just to replenish supplies. I might grab a panther every now and than because it is good money. I never have an issue hunting or fishing, but I don't go in areas where I see a bunch of erratic pink dots either. Can't emphasize enough that the Companion App is your best friend. I also may knock out some missions solo . 

I don't shy away from the PVP , I actual welcome it. This is a big reason I was excited for Online. My posse and I welcome people trying to interfere with our missions. We all like getting the extra Xp a gun fight provides. Hell, we even hopped to another server to answer a challenge/setup recently. But it was probably one of the best experiences I have had online. 

I'm all for private servers, but please don't change things. I don't mind a fight and will never shy away from one. I love the challenge. I would be bored out of my mind if other players were not trying to mess with me. There is no better feeling than making a player leave a server after he thought attacking you was a good idea while you were skinning a gator. 

Edited by Savage_Reaper
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On 1/27/2019 at 9:05 AM, Cliffs said:

I keep reading all these posts from players who are ticked off with griefers or whatever you want to call them. These same complainers are saying they want to hunt and fish and be left alone.

I actually expected the online part of this great game to be like most online games..player VERSUS player not AI. In the single player game i can hunt and fish until the sun sets in the East and never get shot at, so why would i want that same experience online?

Posses (or gangs) would team up against other teams and take over camps and/or areas under others control. There would be epic fights for control of Valentine or St. Deinis, etc.

Instead I keep reading that players want to ride around this huge map and do nothing of the sort.

 

So without attacking me the OP, just what is it you expected from an online shooting game?

I personally want PvEvP as advertised.   A free roam where I can PvP or PvE pending on my desires.  I want a game where there are consequences that each player has to contend with.  I want a freeroam where one's fun isn't dependent on others coming over to ruin it.  Or that I have to change servers to find the one that allows me to do what I want to do.  I especially prefer co-op to the point that if I choose to play solo that when I see another player having issues, that I can ride in, aid them and leave.  That way they can finish their business and I can continue what I am doing.  

Edited by YodaMan 3D
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This game needs invite only/private lobbies.   Then players can hunt and fish without being forced into pvp if they don't want to pvp.

 

Its not more complicated then that really.

 

Game also needs way more butchers...  Every single region should have a few butchers.  

 

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On 1/27/2019 at 2:25 PM, Cliffs said:

Agree with the replies. I agree we should be able to have fun with friends and having private servers will take care of that...but open servers will never be as most of you want just due to the fact this is a shooting online game, not a hunting fishing and socializing online game.

But it is, as I have state before players can hunt, fish, shoot other.  It can be a socializing online game.  Just because there are many who refuse to allow it to be so.  There is no reason why PvP and PvE can't co-exists, problem is if given a choice, some PvP players would rather attack a player who is not involved with PvP vs actually attacking those who are.  Some players take offense to farming for hours and some player rides in for no reason then to destroy their experience.  If given a choice, don't pretend that you don't have a choice and that it is someone else's fault cause one has no self control.

On 1/28/2019 at 8:23 AM, Cliffs said:

 I'm going to assume

Never assume...I still play the first game to this day.

 

To each his own style of play i guess but i know I don't approach this online game the same as single player, why, because to me that is boring as i have done most of it in single player, why would i want to go online to play the same way? I am not a griever or troll and avoid them best i can but i also don't play much online because of same.

What if the campaign allowed you to do it with friends and not just solo?  Thing is that would be co-op and that isn't an option.  You found the campaign as boring, but are you the only one who played it?  Are others wanting to have those kind of interactions with friends?  If you feel PvP is the only way online works, don't they have game modes specific for that?  You don't need free roam to attack others.  Riding around all the time and attacking players that I see fishing or hunting non-stop till they attack back, seems boring to me especially when I pumping my chest screaming that I am great at PvP.  

Edited by BropolloCreed79
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1 hour ago, Renascent said:

I have just learned to avoid people and quickly determine friendly from hostile. If I just want to hunt and fish I go to areas where no one is around. If one area that I want isn't clear then I go to the next. I have many hunting and fishing spots. I usually don't have any problems anymore now that I do that. I do check the map every so often. And if someone does come near enough that it picks up in the minimap I check to see what they are doing and get ready to run/fight. I had a pretty clear day last Friday doing the moving around thing solo. Got a lot of missions done, hunting in between, very productive with minimal pvp.

Otherwise, I don't think I could play this game without the threat of pvp. It wouldn't be challenging enough, in my opinion. I love having to be alert. I get that some people don't want to be that vigilant though. I am in favor of private lobbies, just don't change how the pvp is now.

I do think there needs to be a few more 'safe" spots to relax (ie. the damn butcher, y'all know the pain).

I've given Online several chances over the months and after finishing the campaign.  It's just too boring to me right now.  But the one thing that it reminds me of is the Dark Zone in The Division.  I'd get a rush going in there to get the loot I wanted and that I knew was better than outside the Dark Zone, but was always looking over my shoulder to see who was around me.  Getting my hunting and fishing goods off to be sold is the same as waiting for the chopper to come and carry out my loot from the Division.  Online would be better with more things to do, more missions, etc.

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4 minutes ago, Force58 said:

I've given Online several chances over the months and after finishing the campaign.  It's just too boring to me right now.  But the one thing that it reminds me of is the Dark Zone in The Division.  I'd get a rush going in there to get the loot I wanted and that I knew was better than outside the Dark Zone, but was always looking over my shoulder to see who was around me.  Getting my hunting and fishing goods off to be sold is the same as waiting for the chopper to come and carry out my loot from the Division.  Online would be better with more things to do, more missions, etc.

This is a good comparison, but like in the Division.  PvP really depended way too much on PvE farmers.  PvP players standing around waiting for a PvE player to engage was always ignorant when PvP could be very easy to find.

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4 minutes ago, Force58 said:

Online would be better with more things to do, more missions, etc.

Honestly if it weren't for the fact I run with several posses (about some 25-30 people altogether), it would be starting to become boring by now. But even solo, I don't get bored very easily. I mean I played The Forest on the PC for 3 months straight alone, everyday. And there isn't much to do in that game other than build aside from the lightly put together storyline.

Hell, yesterday myself and some friends were chasing each other around St Denis. Then banded together when some randoms rolled up on us. Dealt with them then back at each other. Then I decided to follow this random guy around doing the crab walk (go first person and crouch, looks creepy af). But then I guess he got nervous and was about to shoot me and I ran away. Then kept meleeing him when he was trying to shoot me still until he left. 

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8 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

The reality is RD O is mean to be a FFA game.   

 

Those that do not want any sort of pvp interactions need to be asking for private lobbies.    

 

Here we go again.  Or they could add some sort of accountability for the asshats to bring balance, that doesn't ruin PvP in the Freeroam.

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13 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Here we go again.  Or they could add some sort of accountability for the asshats to bring balance, that doesn't ruin PvP in the Freeroam.

Funny because that's exactly what I think every time I see you going on about trying to control players actions.  (Yet offer no real solutions)

 

Either Bring your own balance  and accountability..   Or ask for Private lobbies.  

The game is designed to be a FREE FOR ALL.    Theres nothing you can do about it without ruining the free for all aspect of the game.  

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12 minutes ago, Nomad said:

They're just whiners.  If all they want to do is hunt then they can go buy Cabellas hunting and stop drowning us in their tears.

Real constructive and mature reply there. 

This game has more to offer than fishing and hunting and could be a great online experience if R* put in some effort. Adding more dynamic events and tweaking the behaviour and attacks of the npcs would go a long way in fixing this game.

With the hard lock auto aim and the slow, clunky movement's of our toons, this will never be a good PvP experience.

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2 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Funny because that's exactly what I think every time I see you going on about trying to control players actions.  (Yet offer no real solutions)

 

Either Bring your own balance  and accountability..   Or ask for Private lobbies.  

The game is designed to be a FREE FOR ALL.    Theres nothing you can do about it without ruining the free for all aspect of the game.  

Actually, there is plenty that could be done.  I have offerred plenty of suggestions to Rockstar.  Whether not they do any of them, well we have to wait and see.  Good news is it won't affect the PvP players and will affect those who just want to grief.  Greatest part is none of the suggestions are private lobby band-aids like they used in the past.  

Sad part is the rumors are sounding like they are still a go ahead on the GTA model they have been using.  Which mean they will say FU to the PvE crowd and endorse the griefer crowd.  Even though they keep saying that they don't want this game to turnout like GTA did with griefers.

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25 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Funny because that's exactly what I think every time I see you going on about trying to control players actions.  (Yet offer no real solutions)

 

Either Bring your own balance  and accountability..   Or ask for Private lobbies.  

The game is designed to be a FREE FOR ALL.    Theres nothing you can do about it without ruining the free for all aspect of the game.  

I find the best way to deal with griefers or whatever, is getting better or having some gunners in your posse. This keeps them accountable. If they attack you and you annihilate them, they will retreat most times.  Learn to defend yourself. I remember I use to sherpa groups in the Dz(The Division), and it would drive me nuts when the group got jumped people rather flee than fight. Why not fight back??!!  It was part of the game as much as it is in RDRO. Predators always go for the easy meal. I don't want this game to get watered down into a Western Farmville. Private lobbies is the balance, otherwise you kill the essence of Free for All. Many players don't mind being among the wolves and hyenas. For players that don't, Private servers would be your safe haven. 

Edited by Savage_Reaper
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3 minutes ago, Savage_Reaper said:

I find the best way to deal with griefers or whatever, is getting better or having some gunners in your posse. This keeps them accountable. If they attack you and you annihilate them, they will retreat most times.  Learn to defend yourself. I remember I use to sherpa groups in the Dz(The Division), and it would drive me nuts when the group got jumped people rather flee than fight. It was part of the game as much as it is in RDRO. Predators always go for the easy meal. I don't want this game to get watered down into a Western Farmville. Private lobbies is the balance, otherwise you kill the essence of Free for All. 

That's what I'm saying. People just wanna sit here and complain and not try to do anything about but want the game to completely change because they too weak or bad. I got my ass handed to me when I first started out. But I learned, adapted, got better, ranked up hard. Now I dare a mofo to roll up on me and try something. 

Like if you aren't that great in pvp then posse up, network. Or get better at running out avoiding stuff.

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5 minutes ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Actually, there is plenty that could be done.  I have offerred plenty of suggestions to Rockstar.  Whether not they do any of them, well we have to wait and see.  Good news is it won't affect the PvP players and will affect those who just want to grief.  Greatest part is none of the suggestions are private lobby band-aids like they used in the past. 

Again.. Private lobbies is not a band aid.   The game is designed to be a FFA in public free roam.  Band Aids are what you want.

And you have offered nothing that would stop griefing.    

Because when you talk about griefing you talk about getting killed by players.  Which is pvp.  So you want a band aid that prevents pvp from happening in a game where PVP is part of the game design.

Game needs private lobbies.  If you want to think of private lobbies as slap in the face or ban aid, that's your choice.  Most people will simply see that as a simple solution because that allows you to control who you play with.

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1 minute ago, Renascent said:

That's what I'm saying. People just wanna sit here and complain and not try to do anything about but want the game to completely change because they too weak or bad. I got my ass handed to me when I first started out. But I learned, adapted, got better, ranked up hard. Now I dare a mofo to roll up on me and try something. 

Like if you aren't that great in pvp then posse up, network. Or get better at running out avoiding stuff.

Thank you. Exactly. I wasn't the greatest at first either. I spend most of my time cursing Varmint users. But I forced myself to get better so that I could hold my own. Otherwise I mind as well shelf this game. But I got better, maxed out ability cards, met a good core of knowledgeable players,etc. Like you, I now have the "I wish a motherfu**a would attitude".  It takes time and work to hold your own, and that is what I loved.  The game FORCED me to get better. Adapt or Perish.

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9 minutes ago, Savage_Reaper said:

I find the best way to deal with griefers or whatever, is getting better or having some gunners in your posse. This keeps them accountable. If they attack you and you annihilate them, they will retreat most times.  Learn to defend yourself. I remember I use to sherpa groups in the Dz(The Division), and it would drive me nuts when the group got jumped people rather flee than fight. Why not fight back??!!  It was part of the game as much as it is in RDRO. Predators always go for the easy meal. I don't want this game to get watered down into a Western Farmville. Private lobbies is the balance, otherwise you kill the essence of Free for All. Many players don't mind being among the wolves and hyenas. For players that don't, Private servers would be your safe haven. 

I 100% agree.

 

Hell last night I spent an hour killing some random griefer while my friends hunted and fished.

At one point I swapped cards and went to my slippery bastard build.. and just kept tying him with a lasso and burning him alive with moltovs.  LOL

 

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How about this for a solution? You want to kill other players fine, but make it so that doing so triggers the wanted system like killing an NPC. If a witness(player or NPC) sees you killing another player, you are reported to the law. When the law brings you down, you are placed in "jail" effectively locking you out of online play for a set time period, say a couple of minutes. The more you kill before the law gets you, the longer your "jail" time. I think that would be a more realistic punishment for murder.

Edited by Vaderspupil
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