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Defensive Mode DOES NOT WORK!


Aval0n
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Yesterday afternoon, I had just found the 3rd arrowhead location on a collector's treasure map. Had hit X to dig when suddenly the server crashed and I was kicked off line. When I came back on, the 3rd arrowhead location was no longer on the map. While I was trying to figure out what to do, two player characters rode up. One dismounted and also started looking for the arrowhead. I stayed in the spot where it had been before the server crash, thinking that might help the other player locate it. I was in DEFENSIVE mode, no weapons drawn. My character's back was to the player still mounted. Suddenly that player started shooting at my character and killed him. I did "press charges," but this whole thing really stinks. It is tremendously frustrating to be kicked off line so often, but is even worse when it completely disrupts a player's game progression.

Then, I woke up about 2:30 this morning. Could not get back to sleep right away so I turned on the game. Again I was in DEFENSIVE mode, as always. This time all I did was go to the saloon in Valentine, sit down and listen to the piano player. It was working to get me sleepy again when all of a sudden BAM! Again some other player shoots my character in the back, killing him. I "pressed charged," respawned outside town and ran back toward it. Sure enough, the cowardly idiot was still there shooting at everything. I jumped up on a roof to try to stay out of the way, but he spotted me and BAM again.

So defensive mode does not work. Quietly minding my own business does not work. Thanks to frequent random server crashes interfering with progress and stupid griefers, the game is becoming impossible to enjoy.

BTW, my character is only level 27, and I am always in defensive mode.

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18 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

Well, defensive mode isn’t supposed to be invincible mode.  You still have to watch your back out there. 

It is supposed to protect players from griefers and back-shooters like the two I encountered. It does not and you still have to be watching your back, so what's the point of it? What protection does it actually provide?

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As The_Liquor mentioned, Defensive Mode isn't the same as a passive or invincible option. You still need to be aware of your surroundings including other players as you can still be killed.

Defensive Mode simply provides victims with an advantage over aggressors with several features that you don't get while in Offensive Mode.

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3 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

As The_Liquor mentioned, Defensive Mode isn't the same as a passive or invincible option. You still need to be aware of your surroundings including other players as you can still be killed.

Defensive Mode simply provides victims with an advantage over aggressors with several features that you don't get while in Offensive Mode.

Guess I'll have to brush up on what defensive mode is actually supposed to do, because far as I can see, it doesn't do jack. Maybe the real defensive mode is to simply avoid any places where other players are likely to be, such as towns.

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11 minutes ago, Aval0n said:

Guess I'll have to brush up on what defensive mode is actually supposed to do, because far as I can see, it doesn't do jack. Maybe the real defensive mode is to simply avoid any places where other players are likely to be, such as towns.

It does a lot more than you think but as we've been trying to say, you can't treat it like an invulnerability feature.  You need to learn to use it to your advantage but always remember that situational awareness is key regardless.

 

The Hostility System
The Hostility system builds upon the anti-griefing measures added in February with smarter and responsive features that keep players immersed in the world through confrontations and PvP action. For example, players who have damage inflicted on them by attackers will be able to defend themselves without incurring Bounties or Hostility increases. Previously, the attacker and target would be marked as an enemy - now the attacker who inflicts damage will be immediately marked as an enemy to the attacked player; players will not accumulate Hostility increases for killing other players who are marked as an enemy.

Hostility increases will not apply within structured events such as Free Roam Events, Free Roam Missions, Showdowns and Races. Engaging in player vs player behaviors related to Free Roam missions will not incur Hostility increases, however attacking other players not engaged in the activity will cause your Hostility level to rise.  

The Hostility System has many more functions and will help balance experiences for all play styles.

Offensive and Defensive Playing Style Options
Some players just want to immerse themselves in the world, riding, hunting and fishing in peace. We want to offer these options while allowing players to coexist comfortably alongside other players in the world. The Offensive Playing Style is much like the current Free Roam play as we know it while the Defensive Playing Style is a more evolved version of the Passive Mode concept, designed for Red Dead Online’s more grounded experience - giving players more flexibility in how they interact with the world and at the same time de-emphasizing hostile contact with other players. 

Choosing the Defensive option introduces balances that complement a less confrontational approach: Defensive players cannot be lassoed by rival players - although if a Defensive player lassos another player, they’ll be removed from Defensive play and incur a significant Hostility level increase. Defensive players will trade the ability to lock on to other players for the benefit that other players will not be able to lock on to Defensive players. 

While Defensive players can target and be targeted in free aim, they cannot deliver or receive critical hitsif a Defensive player is attacked with a headshot, they’ll survive and be able to defend themselves via the Hostility system or escape all while remaining Defensive. There are several other adjustments that come with the Defensive Playing Style, all of which are built to work seamlessly with systems like Hostility and Bounties to keep all players rooted in the world.

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29 minutes ago, Aval0n said:

Guess I'll have to brush up on what defensive mode is actually supposed to do, because far as I can see, it doesn't do jack. Maybe the real defensive mode is to simply avoid any places where other players are likely to be, such as towns.

Yes, avoiding the other players is really the only way to ensure you’ll never be killed by other players... But defensive mode does give you some advantages you can use to get the upper hand or escape a hostile player. But it does allow a hostile player to still try and kill you if they desire. Bottom line, it mostly works as intended, but you still have to be aware of your surroundings and do your part.

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We tested defensive mode damage reduction the other day.  

My character in defensive mode took 4 headshots point blank from a Springfield before it killed him. 

 

Also avalon, keep fishing, get your health to 100%. That will help a ton. 

Defensive, 100% health, situational awareness,  and you'll be good to go. 

 

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2 hours ago, Aval0n said:

Yesterday afternoon, I had just found the 3rd arrowhead location on a collector's treasure map. Had hit X to dig when suddenly the server crashed and I was kicked off line. When I came back on, the 3rd arrowhead location was no longer on the map. While I was trying to figure out what to do, two player characters rode up. One dismounted and also started looking for the arrowhead. I stayed in the spot where it had been before the server crash, thinking that might help the other player locate it. I was in DEFENSIVE mode, no weapons drawn. My character's back was to the player still mounted. Suddenly that player started shooting at my character and killed him. I did "press charges," but this whole thing really stinks. It is tremendously frustrating to be kicked off line so often, but is even worse when it completely disrupts a player's game progression.

Then, I woke up about 2:30 this morning. Could not get back to sleep right away so I turned on the game. Again I was in DEFENSIVE mode, as always. This time all I did was go to the saloon in Valentine, sit down and listen to the piano player. It was working to get me sleepy again when all of a sudden BAM! Again some other player shoots my character in the back, killing him. I "pressed charged," respawned outside town and ran back toward it. Sure enough, the cowardly idiot was still there shooting at everything. I jumped up on a roof to try to stay out of the way, but he spotted me and BAM again.

So defensive mode does not work. Quietly minding my own business does not work. Thanks to frequent random server crashes interfering with progress and stupid griefers, the game is becoming impossible to enjoy.

BTW, my character is only level 27, and I am always in defensive mode.

Defensive mode only allow you to take less damage and prevent players from lock-on on you ,  but players in defensive mode , they can grief you all the way , that what i find really stupid , happens to me yesterday a guys in defensie mode killed me 3 time and still was in defensive ..

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@Aval0n

I also wish Defensive Mode was more like GTA's passive mode. For some griefers it only seems to be an addtional challenge and they're after you even more forcefully. I now always try to stay away from pretty much all other players, as soon as I see a dot on the mini map I change directions until it's no longer there. If I notice it moving towards me I switch sessions immediately because experience tells me this ain't gonna end well because Defensive Mode really doesn't help at all if someone really wants to put their griefing skills to the test.

Another thing I do: I always try to load into the game in an area where I don't want to remain. For example, if I know that the Daily Challenges require of me to be around Valentine/Cumberland Forest, I load into New Austin - which leads to the game putting me into a New Austin lobby with LOTS of players because R* mistakenly assumes I want to interact with other players. I then quickly go to Tumbleweed or Armadillo and fast travel to Valentine, which is then always empty because most players will be in New Austin. This trick has worked wonders for me. Sure the lobby then fills up at some point again, unfortunately, but it does offer some "alone time" for a little while.

 

 

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4 hours ago, pluck3 said:

 a guys in defensie mode killed me 3 time and still was in defensive ..

If you were low hostility (blue dot) and they shot and hit you first, it will immediately kick them out of defensive. 

Either you were hostile, shot first and hit them, or there was a glitch.  

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1 hour ago, Freakshow9191 said:

If you were low hostility (blue dot) and they shot and hit you first, it will immediately kick them out of defensive. 

Either you were hostile, shot first and hit them, or there was a glitch.  

Yup......or he thought he was in defensive but actually wasn't, etc. 

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Op who was trying to sleep with the piano player at the saloon is so understandable. I've used many in game music in the past to sleep and it is sad that you cannot do it in RDR as it has some great music and scenery. Though you can search on youtube for some of the game's music as well as buying the cd they released. Original score.

I already have bought this and as i'm a big fan of old Sergio Leone films and Ennio's music i'm usually falling asleep to this music. But i can guarantee that the original score of Rdr1 was better that the second one. Woody jackson and Bill Elm composed a masterpiece as well as "Far Away" by Jose Gonzales was better signature song than the "Cruel Cruel World" of Willie Nelson.

Rdr1 score.

 

 

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I appreciate that defensive mode is not passive mode but I don’t believe it works quite as well as the R* blurb promised and it actually puts you at a disadvantage in some situations. For example, if you are caught by somebody who wants to start a gunfight they will likely be perfectly set up for battle whereas you may well have the wrong weapons, the wrong ability cards, not full cores and on the back foot to return fire in free aim. Obviously you need to maintain good situational awareness at all times in this game but R* went and made that harder by taking away the companion app map facility.

i have absolutely zero faith in the hostility system - it’s rare to see red dots, and rarer still in my experience to be attacked by reds rather than blues. Most reds I see have just taken out some NPCs which is not at all indicative that they will turn their guns on other players. 

One thing they could maybe add is an alert that someone is trying to aim at you when in defensive mode, that might help a little?

Press charges is a waste of time too, even more so since the update when a few dollars is nothing. Couldn’t it call lawmen out or something like when a stranger NPC reports you for acts against other NPCs? It’s still only a minor annoyance to the aggressor but makes them break off the confrontation. Or alert nearby Bounty Hunter players if they persist? 

I use defensive mode so I can’t be lasso’d and to advertise to others that i’m just going about my own business, I don’t put any more store in it than that and keep a watchful eye out for other players.

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I read those rules from rockstar Kean posted. 

One thing it said was that you can't lock on to someone in defensive. 

That hasn't been my experience with defensive. 

If they shoot and hit me first, I remain in defensive, they turn red and I have always been able to auto aim on them,  Take them out and go about my business.  

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9 hours ago, Freakshow9191 said:

If you were low hostility (blue dot) and they shot and hit you first, it will immediately kick them out of defensive. 

Either you were hostile, shot first and hit them, or there was a glitch.  

he attacked my delivery...

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In no way do I condone what grieves do in this game but without them y'all gotta admit it would be dull. At least for us it would. The interaction between good and evil make this game. My only advice is posse up folks !! Let them try and grieve you when you have 6 other guns to help. Safty in numbers friends. I had to make a YouTube channel to post my encounters while being alone. They love a single rider. Doesn't always work out for them when they pick the wrong rider. I have proof !

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10 minutes ago, CosmoKramer said:

The potential for players to attack other players adds a dimension to the game, griefing adds nothing positive to the game.  

I agree. There are plenty of situations where some conflict could take place within the bounds of some kind of mission or event... but too many out there take things a little too far.

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40 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

I agree. There are plenty of situations where some conflict could take place within the bounds of some kind of mission or event... but too many out there take things a little too far.

They really do go too far. I make no statement that we are bad asses by no means but I can honestly tell y'all we have only lost grieve battles twice in a years time. We simply refused to give ground. The 2 we lost was to grieves that had numbers like 17 vs 4 or 12 vs 5. Most times we have enough online that if we whistle , 7 to 10 horses appear in the mist and hell comes with em. Carefull who you attack folks ! Some have massive numbers

Edited by Bucnation3139
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54 minutes ago, Bucnation3139 said:

The 2 we lost was to grieves that had numbers like 17 vs 4 or 12 vs 5. Most times we have enough online that if we whistle , 7 to 10 horses appear in the mist and hell comes with em. Carefull who you attack folks ! Some have massive numbers

I'll never forget the Heartlands Massacre... I just wanted to pick some damn mushrooms! LOL

17 vs 6 was slightly overkill, plus they were cheesing the game too. Still salty AF over that... hah

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14 hours ago, Freakshow9191 said:

I read those rules from rockstar Kean posted. 

One thing it said was that you can't lock on to someone in defensive. 

That hasn't been my experience with defensive. 

If they shoot and hit me first, I remain in defensive, they turn red and I have always been able to auto aim on them,  Take them out and go about my business.  

IIRC, that's because (in the scenario you paint) once they engage you, you are no longer limited in free aim and you can fire away at your aggressors without repercussions.  The restriction is removed for you so you are better able to defend yourself but I believe it is still in play for the attacker(s).  

 

10 minutes ago, Enoch said:

I don’t even bother with putting myself in defensive mode anymore after I got killed in an instant after the update. At least in offensive you can fight back. 

You can still fight back in Defensive Mode.  You need to use it's features to your advantage though and get familiar with how it works.

 

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26 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

You can still fight back in Defensive Mode.  You need to use it's features to your advantage though and get familiar with how it works.

 

You can, but it’s a more complicated process that I’d rather not deal with. 

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23 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

IIRC, that's because (in the scenario you paint) once they engage you, you are no longer limited in free aim and you can fire away at your aggressors without repercussions.  The restriction is removed for you so you are better able to defend yourself but I believe it is still in play for the attacker(s). 

Makes sense, I guess I've never noticed before that I couldn't lock on as I've never aimed at and tried to shoot an innocent player while in defensive.  

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1 hour ago, Moosh89 said:

I'll never forget the Heartlands Massacre... I just wanted to pick some damn mushrooms! LOL

17 vs 6 was slightly overkill, plus they were cheesing the game too. Still salty AF over that... hah

Lmao yes the Heartland massacre still haunts me too !! 😀 

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1 hour ago, Freakshow9191 said:

Makes sense, I guess I've never noticed before that I couldn't lock on as I've never aimed at and tried to shoot an innocent player while in defensive.  

Guy popped defensive near me while I was hunting. He was trying to take my kills and my perfect cougar off my house. I couldn't lock on him but I hip fired a semi auto in his gut and killed him. He kept coming back trying to pull the same crap. I hate defensive for reasons like that . Just another way for players to troll. I have been attacked by more players in defensive than normal players since update. Had a lvl 335 camping the post office in Valentine with a shotgun shooting people than hiding in the post office. Pathetic.  I never use it and never will. I know people that target players in defensive purposely but leave normal players alone. I feel Defensive Mode has failed. They were trying to make a hybrid of GTA passive mode I guess. Best Defensive Mode for a player IMO is situational awareness sprinkled with common sense. 

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15 minutes ago, Savage_Reaper said:

Guy popped defensive near me while I was hunting. He was trying to take my kills and my perfect cougar off my house. I couldn't lock on him but I hip fired a semi auto in his gut and killed him. He kept coming back trying to pull the same crap. I hate defensive for reasons like that . Just another way for players to troll. I have been attacked by more players in defensive than normal players since update. Had a lvl 335 camping the post office in Valentine with a shotgun shooting people than hiding in the post office. Pathetic.  I never use it and never will. I know people that target players in defensive purposely but leave normal players alone. I feel Defensive Mode has failed. They were trying to make a hybrid of GTA passive mode I guess. Best Defensive Mode for a player IMO is situational awareness sprinkled with common sense. 

Those cats that kill , then hide behind bounty board or post office , they try us too !! We will mosey couple hundred yards away and make them think we left , pow !! Right in the kisser with pib and a nice dynamite arrow ! 😀  

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