The term griefer

[Ragee503]

35 minutes ago, Jimblob said:

I had one today while hunting in the Great Plains rode up behind me and shot me. I messaged him/her asking why he/she did it got a message back saying to come and fight him/her in Valintine, I declined saying I dont play with Griefer's and know a trap when I see it, then a few minutes later he/she turned up again in a posse I gave there leader a belly full of expolsive slug and when he respawned he was hightailing it out of the area and the posse just blinked out.

Also lets not forget most of them are most likely just kid's who are not playing the game but playing with the game as they are already bored with it but because of all the pleading they did to get Mummy/Daddy to buy it for them feel they have to be seen to be in game, and soon they  will move on to the next game and be long gone before all the good content that's coming for proper player's to enjoy launch's. Griefer's, Gankers, D**khead's or Whole Ass'es call them what you want, there not in it for the long term, so please chill and wait them out.

Exactly what I am doing.  Shelving this for a later date.  If they fix it or it gets tolerable I will think about returning.  By the way its going so far that could be awhile.  I gave up soloing entirely because I can't be productive enough to make it worth while.  It seems I spend most of my time with watching these idiots so now I just play when other friends are on and that is getting harder as they are leaving to other games.  They don't like this clown fest either.

[madfretter]

25 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

Honestly, I could understand getting killed or whatever if there was a purpose for it. I don’t mind loosing my pelts because someone else legitimately robbed me and made a profit off it. But as far as I know, all you get is the same exact XP you would get if you shot the church lady NPC down the road. Therefore, the only reason at all to kill another player outside of a structured activity is just to piss them off... so yeah, I guess every single random freeroam killing is basically grieving when you break it down that way...

personaly, when I want a gunfight, I simply jump into showdown. All the fun of a shootout only instead of costing you time and ammo for nothing (and post update, a bounty) you earn something for your efforts. Also, everyone there actually wants to get into a gunfight with you. I can also live with people wanting to stop me doing a mission of some kind. Honestly, it makes those missions more fun when people attack you. It gets boring when you have no opposition and you’re sitting afk waiting out the clock... I’d rather feel a time crunch and want to drop it off as soon as I can or risk failure.

but butcher camping, or killing fishermen, or people skinning a deer... absolutely no reason for it other than to annoy other players. No, I don’t report them. But I don’t enjoy wasting my limited online time getting into endless gunfights for no profit either. I’m glad the new bounty system is in place, although I believe it needs some heavy tweaking. At least now there is some kind of risk/consequences to indiscriminate killing for no reason.

But my opinion is completely useless in the grand scheme of things. This argument has been going on since before computer gaming was even a thing...

Player: ’I kill Bob so I don’t have to cover his 5 copper shortfall on the tavern bill’

DM: ‘you loose all your powers’

Player: ‘This is BS. I’m allowed to do whatever I want! Yeah that’s the whole point of D&D!’

DM: ‘but your a lawful good paladin. And you’ve been acting like a chaotic evil crime lord since the game started’

Player: ‘but how? All I did was rob a store and burn down a village! If I wasn’t supposed to, you should’ve not put the Gilliam’s there’

DM: ‘fine. Rocks fall, everyone dies. I’m going home’

There is no place for your concise, well thought out, level headed comments in a thread on griefing sir!  Seriously though, you're spot on.   They'll sort it out eventually....or they won't. Either way, I'll  probably still be playing this gave in 3 years...lol

[BropolloCreed79]

26 minutes ago, The_Liquor said:

Player: ’I kill Bob so I don’t have to cover his 5 copper shortfall on the tavern bill’

DM: ‘you loose all your powers’

Player: ‘This is BS. I’m allowed to do whatever I want! Yeah that’s the whole point of D&D!’

DM: ‘but your a lawful good paladin. And you’ve been acting like a chaotic evil crime lord since the game started’

Player: ‘but how? All I did was rob a store and burn down a village! If I wasn’t supposed to, you should’ve not put the Gilliam’s there’

DM: ‘fine. Rocks fall, everyone dies. I’m going home’

Which is why I always roll a Barbarian (Booyah the Barbarian, if you must know).

Because if anyone can RP a filthy savage, it's me.

[CrabApples]

I call these kinds of people trolls. If you are going on of your way to kill another player just to get a laugh out of it, you are a troll. It is no different than online to me. People say and do stupid things to upset people because they think it is funny. They are childish and need to grow up.

[virgil_caine]

On 3/1/2019 at 7:34 PM, Xped said:

 I agree 100%.  What many would call a "griefer", I have sub-categories to break it down even further into moral and immoral groupings. It's semantics for sure.

Either way, you're right.  This is more about how people envision this game should be played.  

Personally, I like the challenge and excitement of not knowing what another player may or may not do.  Of course, not to the levels of what I would consider to be harassment.  I believe this game should have acceptable levels of killing in free roam...for whatever the reason may be (for fun or sport, for preemptive strikes, to protect the area in which one has staked a claim, etc).  The reason does not matter to me such as the reason in RL a deer does not care why a hunter hunts it.  The deer just thinks about surviving.  It is what it is.  This game, to me, is to stay alive while obtaining the resources required to make me a better player.

I am curious to all those people who claim they want a murder-free free roam.  What are you trying to accomplish when you hunt, fish and pick herbs? You're gaining XP and $$$ for what reason?  To dress up your Ken and Barbie dolls?  Or, are you trying to become a stronger more powerful character in order to protect yourself from others that will try to kill you.  There has to be a reason why you want to rank up other than just for the sake of ranking up. No?  Maybe I'm wrong.

And for the record, I don't believe most who would be considered to be griefers are the anti-Christ.  They're not necessarily deranged  individuals and psychopaths because they play this within the parameters of the game.  This is a game people.  Don't take it so seriously! Play it if you like....play something else if you don't like it.  Life's too short to worry about this kind of stuff.  I'll most likely play it either way and will simply adapt my game style to whatever the devs come up with.

^This!

[YodaMan 3D]

On 3/1/2019 at 6:34 PM, Xped said:

 I agree 100%.  What many would call a "griefer", I have sub-categories to break it down even further into moral and immoral groupings. It's semantics for sure.

Either way, you're right.  This is more about how people envision this game should be played.  

Personally, I like the challenge and excitement of not knowing what another player may or may not do.  Of course, not to the levels of what I would consider to be harassment.  I believe this game should have acceptable levels of killing in free roam...for whatever the reason may be (for fun or sport, for preemptive strikes, to protect the area in which one has staked a claim, etc).  The reason does not matter to me such as the reason in RL a deer does not care why a hunter hunts it.  The deer just thinks about surviving.  It is what it is.  This game, to me, is to stay alive while obtaining the resources required to make me a better player.

I am curious to all those people who claim they want a murder-free free roam.  What are you trying to accomplish when you hunt, fish and pick herbs? You're gaining XP and $$$ for what reason?  To dress up your Ken and Barbie dolls?  Or, are you trying to become a stronger more powerful character in order to protect yourself from others that will try to kill you.  There has to be a reason why you want to rank up other than just for the sake of ranking up. No?  Maybe I'm wrong.

And for the record, I don't believe most who would be considered to be griefers are the anti-Christ.  They're not necessarily deranged  individuals and psychopaths because they play this within the parameters of the game.  This is a game people.  Don't take it so seriously! Play it if you like....play something else if you don't like it.  Life's too short to worry about this kind of stuff.  I'll most likely play it either way and will simply adapt my game style to whatever the devs come up with.

Some players are quite content playing PvE, they rank up for the much of the same reason everyone else does.  Become more powerful and unlock more things.  At one point they may be interested in PvP, then again maybe they just want to keep PvE.  

Games like this should require us to take a step back and try to see what others are thinking.  Most of the time players are just too shallow and selfish try to force everyone into doing what they want, regardless of whatever that other person wants to be doing.

 

[Punyama Punpun]

I honestly feel that people crying Griefer are new to Rockstar games or simply just want to play a co-op game. I understand that people like to play with friends but cant handle it when they aren't good enough to deal with a situation that gets forced on them but that's what freemode is all about its not all about you. 

Now, i may disagree with how people who call others griefers feel but i understand that they aren't going to stop thinking that way or disappear. So how do we fix this impasse of disagreeing? simple, we use a system thats been in every online Rockstar game since GTAIV, we separate the lobbies. I know some people who state that this is a "BIG ISSUE" to Rockstar but lets all be fair, if Rockstar doesn't do this then everyone is gonna be gone, pvpers and pveers. If you need the perfect example of how this system works, GTAIV has people playing on both free aim and auto aim for both the original and Ballad for xbox 360. That's 4 different lobbies all beings slip up, not adding onto the fact that you can find more than one due to the way you can make lobbies. 

So in conclusion, RDR2 can be saved by one simple system. Friendly lobbies, Normal lobbies and Hardcore lobbies. If you think that people wont go to hardcore then there is a very simple way to bring people into those lobbies, double XP. RDR2 NEEDS separation to cure the issue of people calling everyone a griefer, that way people who just want to farm can do so in friendly lobbies and people who want to fight can do so in the split of auto aim and free aim between normal and hardcore lobbies. Problem solved, too bad Rockstar doesn't care about RDR2's survival.

[Renascent]

2 hours ago, Punyama Punpun said:

I honestly feel that people crying Griefer are new to Rockstar games or simply just want to play a co-op game. I understand that people like to play with friends but cant handle it when they aren't good enough to deal with a situation that gets forced on them but that's what freemode is all about its not all about you. 

Now, i may disagree with how people who call others griefers feel but i understand that they aren't going to stop thinking that way or disappear. So how do we fix this impasse of disagreeing? simple, we use a system thats been in every online Rockstar game since GTAIV, we separate the lobbies. I know some people who state that this is a "BIG ISSUE" to Rockstar but lets all be fair, if Rockstar doesn't do this then everyone is gonna be gone, pvpers and pveers. If you need the perfect example of how this system works, GTAIV has people playing on both free aim and auto aim for both the original and Ballad for xbox 360. That's 4 different lobbies all beings slip up, not adding onto the fact that you can find more than one due to the way you can make lobbies. 

So in conclusion, RDR2 can be saved by one simple system. Friendly lobbies, Normal lobbies and Hardcore lobbies. If you think that people wont go to hardcore then there is a very simple way to bring people into those lobbies, double XP. RDR2 NEEDS separation to cure the issue of people calling everyone a griefer, that way people who just want to farm can do so in friendly lobbies and people who want to fight can do so in the split of auto aim and free aim between normal and hardcore lobbies. Problem solved, too bad Rockstar doesn't care about RDR2's survival.

I've personally heard the song and dance of oh people will leave cuz they are forced into pvp many times. And yeah sure they will but others will replace them. Long standing free pvp game I used to play still running as well as ever despite the fact you can't pve without going through pvp first. Y'all complain but still play, some will leave but most of you still play. I still see lobbies of 24+ everyday despite everyone crying griefer when they get shot.

[Punyama Punpun]

17 minutes ago, Renascent said:

I've personally heard the song and dance of oh people will leave cuz they are forced into pvp many times. And yeah sure they will but others will replace them. Long standing free pvp game I used to play still running as well as ever despite the fact you can't pve without going through pvp first. Y'all complain but still play, some will leave but most of you still play. I still see lobbies of 24+ everyday despite everyone crying griefer when they get shot.

I've always found that its the people who complain about PVP that let the game die, dont get me wrong there can be great pve communities but in order to keep a game breathing i feel that you need to have players doing something that isnt based around the game world, it should be based around its mechanics. Right now RDR2 probably has one of the most worked on shooting mechanics out of any Rockstar game (excluding GTAIV and MP3) and no one wants you mess around with it because that would be "griefing." What an honest to god shame, im still fed up that Auto aim plaguing the game so i cant actually play with the games shooting mechanics but i guess holding hands is more important, actually wanting to play with something someone spent YEARS into making? nah **** you, you're a griefer. 

In all seriousness though i feel like the PVE crowd would get bored and hop into a PVP server just to see whats its like and they'd find that its not as bad as they tell themselves it is. Double XP would be a good way to bring PVEers into the PVP crowd as well but you'd need the classic RDR1 approach of Friendly, Normal and Hardcore.

[Renascent]

24 minutes ago, Punyama Punpun said:

I've always found that its the people who complain about PVP that let the game die, dont get me wrong there can be great pve communities but in order to keep a game breathing i feel that you need to have players doing something that isnt based around the game world, it should be based around its mechanics. Right now RDR2 probably has one of the most worked on shooting mechanics out of any Rockstar game (excluding GTAIV and MP3) and no one wants you mess around with it because that would be "griefing." What an honest to god shame, im still fed up that Auto aim plaguing the game so i cant actually play with the games shooting mechanics but i guess holding hands is more important, actually wanting to play with something someone spent YEARS into making? nah **** you, you're a griefer. 

In all seriousness though i feel like the PVE crowd would get bored and hop into a PVP server just to see whats its like and they'd find that its not as bad as they tell themselves it is. Double XP would be a good way to bring PVEers into the PVP crowd as well but you'd need the classic RDR1 approach of Friendly, Normal and Hardcore.

I used to be part of the pve crowd when I first started that mmo I mentioned. It's an acquired taste for me. I kept getting my ass handed to me so I got better because I wanted to dish out some ass whoopins too. And it was hella fun. I've said before in another thread or probably this one. If I wanted only structured pvp then I'd play overwatch or fortnite. The allure of free roam is part of what keeps me around in RDO. I've had so many good pvp moments, even when I got wrecked.

Hell I logged in yesterday, some low rank bolted towards me while I was trying to set my camp up and tried to kill me. Griefer? Nah. Even when another one did manage to kill me, I wasn't upset. I came back and popped him a couple times before he thought better of trying again.

People don't want to try and just want to be a stick in the mud. They take getting shot very personally and cry about not 'consenting' to pvp. I'm not saying the guy who targets people fishing or the asshat snipers by the butchers are okay though.

[Punyama Punpun]

1 hour ago, Renascent said:

I used to be part of the pve crowd when I first started that mmo I mentioned. It's an acquired taste for me. I kept getting my ass handed to me so I got better because I wanted to dish out some ass whoopins too. And it was hella fun. I've said before in another thread or probably this one. If I wanted only structured pvp then I'd play overwatch or fortnite. The allure of free roam is part of what keeps me around in RDO. I've had so many good pvp moments, even when I got wrecked.

Hell I logged in yesterday, some low rank bolted towards me while I was trying to set my camp up and tried to kill me. Griefer? Nah. Even when another one did manage to kill me, I wasn't upset. I came back and popped him a couple times before he thought better of trying again.

People don't want to try and just want to be a stick in the mud. They take getting shot very personally and cry about not 'consenting' to pvp. I'm not saying the guy who targets people fishing or the asshat snipers by the butchers are okay though.

I can understand someone getting upset over being shot at while they're fishing or hunting (especially when the pelts despawned) but this isn't the fault of the player, they aren't a "griefer" because they wanted to shoot someone in a PVP lobby imo. Its the fault of Rockstar for not even adding private lobbies to this "beta." I feel like everyone looks at RDO like its something normal but its honestly one of the worst online drops I've seen in a long time but people want to spend their time complaining about people playing the game normally rather than voicing out to Rockstar that we need the bare essentials for an online game. 

All of Rockstars freemode games released with lobby separation and it seems they're just getting lazy with this game and calling it a beta as an excuse because its not going to make them as much money and GTAO will due to the amount of cheap nickle and diming they've done to that game already. Private/friendly lobbies should already be a thing in this game since there's nothing to do in the damn game to begin with but people want to complain about the players and rather than the dev team that's not fixing the issue. 

They call PVPers griefers and then get Rockstar to literally break the game so you'll never run into another player on purpose ever again, can we all agree that the radar update is completely stupid? the system in RDR1's hardcore lobbies worked amazingly but this is just a joke. It glitched with PVP too btw, if an enemy team is red (and they're also a red "evil" group) then they with turn fully invisible on the map because of the way it shows them as red indicators on the mini map. Issues being caused because people are crying about the wrong thing. 

[Renascent]

28 minutes ago, Punyama Punpun said:

I can understand someone getting upset over being shot at while they're fishing or hunting (especially when the pelts despawned) but this isn't the fault of the player, they aren't a "griefer" because they wanted to shoot someone in a PVP lobby imo. Its the fault of Rockstar for not even adding private lobbies to this "beta." I feel like everyone looks at RDO like its something normal but its honestly one of the worst online drops I've seen in a long time but people want to spend their time complaining about people playing the game normally rather than voicing out to Rockstar that we need the bare essentials for an online game. 

All of Rockstars freemode games released with lobby separation and it seems they're just getting lazy with this game and calling it a beta as an excuse because its not going to make them as much money and GTAO will due to the amount of cheap nickle and diming they've done to that game already. Private/friendly lobbies should already be a thing in this game since there's nothing to do in the damn game to begin with but people want to complain about the players and rather than the dev team that's not fixing the issue. 

They call PVPers griefers and then get Rockstar to literally break the game so you'll never run into another player on purpose ever again, can we all agree that the radar update is completely stupid? the system in RDR1's hardcore lobbies worked amazingly but this is just a joke. It glitched with PVP too btw, if an enemy team is red (and they're also a red "evil" group) then they with turn fully invisible on the map because of the way it shows them as red indicators on the mini map. Issues being caused because people are crying about the wrong thing. 

I wouldn't call it the worst, but not the best. I do personally like the changes to the blip/radar, although it's still possible to give someone if you've recently shot at or killed them if you're gonna be persistent in being a douche. I do feel like I have a but more privacy and the colors do give someone an indication of whether they will kill you or not. Even though, yes even dark blue people can still shoot you in the back. But also dark red people can be your friend. Had a 116 lurk behind my friend, told her cuz I noticed the dot near he's and checked the map real quick. He ended up being friendly and just wanted to fish. On the other hand, don't a treasure map and some dark blue starts something with me when I'm picking flowers. I've noticed people are less antsy than before. 

I also like not being targeted for my rank. I've had people come all the way from tumbleweed to Rhodes because I was the only other high rank in the session, before the blip update. (they ended up being friendly, but the rest that have done that weren't). 

[HuDawg]

5 hours ago, Punyama Punpun said:

So in conclusion, RDR2 can be saved by one simple system. Friendly lobbies, Normal lobbies and Hardcore lobbies. If you think that people wont go to hardcore then there is a very simple way to bring people into those lobbies, double XP. RDR2 NEEDS separation to cure the issue of people calling everyone a griefer, that way people who just want to farm can do so in friendly lobbies and people who want to fight can do so in the split of auto aim and free aim between normal and hardcore lobbies. Problem solved, too bad Rockstar doesn't care about RDR2's survival.

I agree with everything you said 100%..

My only real hope right now is that R*  is waiting till after the beta period ends to add all that..   

[Born Homicidal]

I keep saying it and I'll say it again, make PvP free aim only and 90% of the griefing will stop to the point it's not an entire issue anymore. Let people auto aim bots and sh*t but definitely not players. 

They really messed up in making auto aim the standard for the game, where it is so damn easy to grief. Aim flick up and shoot it's so damn ridiculous. Take it off and as I said 90% of these griefers wouldn't be able to do anything. 

[Punyama Punpun]

5 hours ago, Born Homicidal said:

I keep saying it and I'll say it again, make PvP free aim only and 90% of the griefing will stop to the point it's not an entire issue anymore. Let people auto aim bots and sh*t but definitely not players. 

They really messed up in making auto aim the standard for the game, where it is so damn easy to grief. Aim flick up and shoot it's so damn ridiculous. Take it off and as I said 90% of these griefers wouldn't be able to do anything. 

As much as i'd love the game not having auto aim for PVP, thats an unrealistic dream. You have PC retard running around saying that its impossible to aim with a controller and since theres a large number of people echoing that feeling a lot of randoms feel the same without even trying to use free aim. The only way to make the switch to 100% free aim PVP is to have a new game with it from the beginning so all the new players have to learn how to shoot from the start, right now theres too many people that rely on auto aim to play the game to begin with. Like look at the hunting for an example, you can EASILY do that with free aim but people want to run around with auto aim killing things because its "easier." Its the same thing for the most part. The best thing we can do at the moment is separate the lobbies by preferences like GTAIV or RDR1. 

[BropolloCreed79]

7 minutes ago, Punyama Punpun said:

The only way to make the switch to 100% free aim PVP is to have a new game with it from the beginning so all the new players have to learn how to shoot from the start, right now theres too many people that rely on auto aim to play the game to begin with.

The greatest laugh will be when they disable auto-aim when the beta tag is removed and the game "officially" launches.

[Punyama Punpun]

9 hours ago, Renascent said:

I wouldn't call it the worst, but not the best. I do personally like the changes to the blip/radar, although it's still possible to give someone if you've recently shot at or killed them if you're gonna be persistent in being a douche. I do feel like I have a but more privacy and the colors do give someone an indication of whether they will kill you or not. Even though, yes even dark blue people can still shoot you in the back. But also dark red people can be your friend. Had a 116 lurk behind my friend, told her cuz I noticed the dot near he's and checked the map real quick. He ended up being friendly and just wanted to fish. On the other hand, don't a treasure map and some dark blue starts something with me when I'm picking flowers. I've noticed people are less antsy than before. 

I also like not being targeted for my rank. I've had people come all the way from tumbleweed to Rhodes because I was the only other high rank in the session, before the blip update. (they ended up being friendly, but the rest that have done that weren't). 

What im saying with this blip update though is that you have to run into other players rather than finding people and experiencing the game with them. (whether thats pvp or pve) In RDR1's hardcore lobbies you would be hidden on the map but if you ran, shot or road your horse you'd show up on the map no matter how far BUT if you're crouched you'd be invisible no matter what which added a style of play that was unique to RDR. A single guy could fight a whole posse of 8 and win because there were actual stealth mechanics working that he could use, i should also add that the player menu gave you a general location for where people were in that like "chola springs" or whatever. In RDR2 however all it does is make everyone slightly away from you invisible in a map thats already too big with blips showing. Theres also a glitch where if i shoot you (as a red blip or a blue blip) i become completely invisible on the map for the group im fighting other than the red indicator on the mini map. Its literally broken atm.

[Voss]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:44 PM, YodaMan 3D said:

Or Rockstar could just come up with a real solution, stop players from wanting to grief. 

Exactly. People get bored and end up finding something to do. It's a wild west game not a hunting and fishing game.

I want to shoot people as well, but want to do it under some game play structure.

Give the players a reason to interact in more true game play style and they could take advantage of this  world/engine they have created. 

[Glopez]

3 hours ago, Voss said:

Exactly. People get bored and end up finding something to do. It's a wild west game not a hunting and fishing game.

I want to shoot people as well, but want to do it under some game play structure.

Give the players a reason to interact in more true game play style and they could take advantage of this  world/engine they have created. 

They need to either have more for people to do together or this will only keep happening. When I get bored in any game, I just start dicking around. Usually with my friends but depending on the game, I might troll others but not excessively. 

[Born Homicidal]

17 hours ago, Punyama Punpun said:

What im saying with this blip update though is that you have to run into other players rather than finding people and experiencing the game with them. (whether thats pvp or pve) In RDR1's hardcore lobbies you would be hidden on the map but if you ran, shot or road your horse you'd show up on the map no matter how far BUT if you're crouched you'd be invisible no matter what which added a style of play that was unique to RDR. A single guy could fight a whole posse of 8 and win because there were actual stealth mechanics working that he could use.

Ahhh don't remind me of the good old days!!!

I was hoping they implemented that again in this game. Hopefully they do come out with Hardcore Mode again. As for my previous post about Auto Aim bots but not players that could work in Hardcore mode. Add in Aim Assist rather than the full blown auto aim mechanic and even those PvE players wont be able to complain about much when it comes to the lobby or PvP.

[Punyama Punpun]

6 hours ago, Born Homicidal said:

Ahhh don't remind me of the good old days!!!

I was hoping they implemented that again in this game. Hopefully they do come out with Hardcore Mode again. As for my previous post about Auto Aim bots but not players that could work in Hardcore mode. Add in Aim Assist rather than the full blown auto aim mechanic and even those PvE players wont be able to complain about much when it comes to the lobby or PvP.

I personally feel like it would be find to leave aim assist or auto aim in normal lobbies and make hardcore 100% free aim but the kick for that would be double or triple XP gain. You're putting in a lot more work so you should get more from that. I feel a lot of grinding players would convert from auto aim through stuff like that since its what happened with RDR1 through the added XP in the hardcore mode. I've seen multiple posts on other sites stating that people would love a hardcore mode just so they can get more XP out of it because thats what they loved from the first game. 

[Zampen]

So in theory they already had everything from rdr1 to just go with in this online mode?  Never played the first one.... really strange strategy from rs if thats the case. Why change things if players are happy with things that they already did ? 

[lumper]

Well, we all have opinions,

To me,

Im a total noob here but it seems to me that they could just make a free roam for those who want to hunt and fish and explore and punish those who go out of their way to aggravate other players and kill them repeatedly.

So you would have the  option to join an actual free roam, roam and do what you want but with consequences, if you harass people and bother them while they are enjoying their game then you get kicked, fined, jailed and eventually temporarily banned, etc..

But if they want to play like that then have that available, make an anything goes free roam, so those who do enjoy the conflicts and want to hit and run and whatever else, then they should join the "Anything goes" free roam.

That way, if I join Anything goes, I expect to be hassled, attacked, ambushed, etc.. and I am ready for it.

Also, if they are bored and want more players, they should'nt chase away new players who are trying to learn the game and have less than level 10, almost no weapons, potions, etc.. just unprepared players not ready for a fight being attacked just isnt a good game

I get that killing people is part of the game, but pulling me (level 6)  off my horse while im trying to read a menu while the game is paused is just nonsense, there is no sport or fun in that, especially for me, Im just trying to learn the game, and its tough enough without worrying about stopping to read something or look at the menu's or whatever.

Killing a noob on his horse while he struggles to understand how this all works, is not "game play" it is some person being a jerk.

Dont call them griefers, call them a-holes.

I wish R* would address it in a real way, with $$ if you partake in this behavior with new players then it will cost you, kill a player 10 levels lower than yourself in free roam or any player under level 25 pay a fine.

As hard as it is to make money in this game, I say hit them where it hurts, and this behavior goes away, with a few exceptions, you always have some people who do things to irritate everyone else, it is the nature of the internet, key board warriors, in real life they would never act this way and for good reason, but a little anonymity and they turn into serial A holes.

 

[YodaMan 3D]

Extra lobbies could work, but it doesn't fix the Griefing issue.  What they did, didn't fix it either.  Then to be honestly, it's been a long time since Rockstar ever did anything that fixed griefing.  Remember Rockstar said they wanted to fix it.

[Kean_1]

This whole discussion on the topic in a nutshell:

[Renascent]

This discussion is as old as pvp/pve and will continue foreverrrrrrr. Sometimes feel it aint no point in arguing/discussing it if you aren't the game developer or someone that they would literally take your idea and implement it into the game.

[lumper]

Im sorry about that, I realize now how old this discussion is, and that this has been going on.

I am very new to online multiplayer games, I have gone out of my way to avoid them until now.

This game is just to awesome to not try and enjoy the online part, and to be honest it is really neat and I would like to level up and keep going.

I was attacked last night by 6 or 8 red dots, they actually surrounded me while I was fishing, somehow with only a repeater I was able to defend myself kill 5 or 6 of them and get away and back to my camp, from the get go, it was fun, not a hassling activity, to me it was appropriate,  I mean yeah Im an unprepared noob, but they werent exactly Jesse James worthy in a fight and it seemed like a possible natural event, unlike the people who sometimes harass.

Even if I had been killed it wouldnt have bothered me either as it felt like an unbalanced fair fight.

I laughed about it as it happened thinking, ok well this sucks, but its the wild west, so lets do this.

Anyway I said in my post that I am a noob to all this and I meant that, so I apologize for the age old complaint, lol I get it and feel much better about the game today.

I woried out my issues with my accounts and that was a big part of understanding what I was doing wrong.

Now I look forward to grinding away to get my levels up.

In the meantime Ill just do my best to avoid problems, and fish, hunt, and take part in a couple missions when I can to advance and gain xp.

Im glad I stuck with it a few more times to give it a chance.

 

[CowBoii]

I see the term thrown around a lot with this game and a few others I enjoy that are online multiplayer games. 

I want to know what individuals here consider griefing. I am asking this question because it would seem that some players are using the term to just express frustration over their own lack of skills in the game or just general players being better than them and getting the upper hand. 

I feel like on a dev's side of the fence, this has to be annoying to deal with. RDR2 is in open beta and they are accepting feedback as well. I would imagine they get bombed with people just being upset about someone else being better than them and they are mislabeling them as a griefer. The online communities and games I have been a part of consider the label a very bad thing so when you are labeled with it, you're basically labeled the worst kind of person in online gaming only second to being a hacker. 

I am not trying to say players on RDR2 are overreacting but this term doesn't seem to be being used right anymore. 

So give me some in-game scenarios (within RDR2 Online) where you would consider someone a griefer and where you wouldn't consider them a griefer. 

[Kean_1]

No offense but this topic has been hashed out in a number of threads including one that specifically addresses the same question. 

I believe it is appropriate that I merge your question with that discussion in this case.  Most of the typical arguments have all been made already in that thread and folks are welcome to continue the debate if they wish.

[Snipe]

I’ve played a LOT of games over 30 years of MMOG/FPS/Flight Sim/RTS/RPG/etc/etc/etc gaming.

I’ve tried many multiplayer games in many modes. Ladder. Casual/Open world. Story. Unguided. Hardcore. Care Bear. Solo. Multi. Guilded. Unguilded.

As such, I’ve learned to somewhat accept the game FOR WHAT IT IS. Don’t constantly try to make it something it isn’t. But give your feedback, and be pleasantly surprised if the developer acts on it. Otherwise? Move on. Maybe in 6 months, they’ll decide they want people like you back and the changes were made in your absence. Maybe not. But don’t keep grinding based on aspiration that “if only I get those top levels the game is suddenly what I want.” Not what you wanted on the way up? Probably won’t be up at the top levels, either.

I think the issue is that while you can argue you WANT a different game play style, there are only limited things you should EXPECT to be done in a mode to alter game play before you yourself are meta-griefing other players. (AKA Nerf Wars class-on-class, weapon-on-weapon, etc).

In RDR2O Free Roam? I don’t have any issues at all with people killing me. I don’t have any issue at all with there being a cost for death and me losing my horse contents (but not my satchel, that’s a nice balance IMO). It invents a little care, and some tactics. (Don’t just ride STRAIGHT IN to the butcher, etc). This is the game.

I think it is reasonable to say people playing the seams of the game to essentially exploit, or block another player from really playing altogether... that is griefing. The game now gives a pretty solid way to avoid some of the worst examples. Don’t think being killed 5-7 times in a row qualifies as fun game play? Yeah, it’s kind of lame if you didn’t sign on for it... Parley fixes it mostly. Changing it so Parley addresses an entire posse isn’t unreasonable, it allows killing, but not repetitive ongoing forever GRIEFING that stops another player from proceeding to the next chapter of the game, so to speak.

Another example: I think it is reasonable to argue that in a game that has pvp specific modes, giving pvp bounty / daily incentives in Free Roam is kind of a mistake.

Another examples: It seems clear the missions ARE where R* wants structured pvp interference to keep it fresh and different. Blaming people who avail themselves of what R* INCENTS them to do very specifically is wrong. Players to interfere on missions are not “Griefers”. They’re an agent of R*, doing what R* wants done in that scenario.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Snipe