GTA5 vs RDR2

[YodaMan 3D]

Do you guys and gals think RDR2 online will be like GTA5 online?  I enjoy GTA online but sometimes the toxicity where other players have to ruin my missions just makes it not fun foe me.

 

I liked where RDR was online.  Where I could play solo or with friends or play online with others.  With GTA5, the pay to win or pay to ruin others players fun, not sure I will like the game as much.  What do you guys think?  Cause Rockstar isn't really saying much on this topic.

[Kean_1]

2 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

Do you guys and gals think RDR2 online will be like GTA5 online?  I enjoy GTA online but sometimes the toxicity where other players have to ruin my missions just makes it not fun foe me.

 

I liked where RDR was online.  Where I could play solo or with friends or play online with others.  With GTA5, the pay to win or pay to ruin others players fun, not sure I will like the game as much.  What do you guys think?  Cause Rockstar isn't really saying much on this topic.

As long as RDR2 has a solo online and "friends only" online, I'm ok with a similar online model as GTAV.   Quite frankly, I prefer online games that promote cooperation over PvP whether that is in a selectable or option.   What I never liked was GTAVs style of forcing players to play competitively online if you wanted to run businesses, etc.  With all the griefers out there, it's just not fun. 

The Division was the same way with the Dark Zone.  It was a great idea (and initially pitched as such) where you could meet random strangers who were also Division agents and choose to help or move on to defeat enemy NPCs, accomplish objectives, etc.  ....and yeah, you could also kill each other if you so chose to.  .....guess what most people decided to do?

[Lonestar]

We have no idea what Red Dead Online will be like, but my best guess is that GTA Online more "outlandish" and extreme... so it should attract and reward less extreme (ie less toxic) behaviour too.

[YodaMan 3D]

15 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

As long as RDR2 has a solo online and "friends only" online, I'm ok with a similar online model as GTAV.   Quite frankly, I prefer online games that promote cooperation over PvP whether that is in a selectable or option.   What I never liked was GTAVs style of forcing players to play competitively online if you wanted to run businesses, etc.  With all the griefers out there, it's just not fun. 

The Division was the same way with the Dark Zone.  It was a great idea (and initially pitched as such) where you could meet random strangers who were also Division agents and choose to help or move on to defeat enemy NPCs, accomplish objectives, etc.  ....and yeah, you could also kill each other if you so chose to.  .....guess what most people decided to do?

With GTA I felt after a while it became a gank zone.   I reached a point where certain missions I would never get done , cause some other player on an ego trip would fly over bomb me in their jet.  They really had no interests in what I was doing other then to stop me from doing it.  That was when I started losing interest. 

As for the Division, even some of the PvE modes are set up so you grief each other.  With some of the interaction I have had with others are making me leery with loot boxes and PvP. 

Like I said I love the original game, but really dragging my feet on this one even though I was wanted it back when it was only rumors. 

[YodaMan 3D]

13 hours ago, lonestar said:

We have no idea what Red Dead Online will be like, but my best guess is that GTA Online more "outlandish" and extreme... so it should attract and reward less extreme (ie less toxic) behaviour too.

I agree with this whole heartedly, that is what concerns me with not knowing.

[Kean_1]

5 hours ago, YodaMan 3D said:

With GTA I felt after a while it became a gank zone.   I reached a point where certain missions I would never get done , cause some other player on an ego trip would fly over bomb me in their jet.  They really had no interests in what I was doing other then to stop me from doing it.  That was when I started losing interest. 

As for the Division, even some of the PvE modes are set up so you grief each other.  With some of the interaction I have had with others are making me leery with loot boxes and PvP. 

Like I said I love the original game, but really dragging my feet on this one even though I was wanted it back when it was only rumors. 

Yeah, I hear ya.  Those are the things that can really ruin the experience for me as well.  

In PvE / Co-Op I found that it really pays off to play with friends rather than randoms.  It helps with PvP too but it's the "v" part that is the issue.  In GTAVs case, you have no choice when trying to run missions in Online mode with a bunch of randoms who seem hell bent on griefing everyone.  ......although I use a well known method to still be able to play on online servers alone for the purposes of resupplying and deliveries.  

[Archbell]

From October 2013 to May 2015 if I was on my Xbox I was more often than not playing Grand Theft Auto Online, I enjoyed it but the main reason I played it was because Red Dead Redemption's Multiplayer had started to deteriorate rapidly and Rockstar gave next to no information about whether they would, could or wanted to get RDR's Multiplayer working again so I was forced to switch over to GTA Online.

I was most looking forward to Free Roam and at first I assumed GTA Online to be like GTA IV's Multiplayer and RDR's Multiplayer as all three can be put under the category of "third-person multiplayer shooter" and that's what I was looking forward to but unlike GTA IV's Multiplayer and RDR's Multiplayer where players can improve their gun skill with practise to defeat other players GTA Online makes guns useless, military tanks and jets are easily accessible and little to no effort is needed to wipe out a lobby in GTA Online especially with all the high tech military weapons, gear and vehicles that have been flowing into GTA Online following the success of the GTA Online Heists Update.

I accept that Grand Theft Auto isn't meant to be realistic and I think it's over the top action and crazy vehicles among other things is what makes the Grand Theft Auto Series great but I really feel there has been a major shift with the kind of updates GTA Online has received, it's almost like Rockstar won't put out an update unless it's got a weaponized vehicle in it. GTA Online feels more like a third-person Battlefield game nowadays.

Another issue I have is that Rockstar don't seem to want to fix things that obviously don't work in GTA Online, there are countless wall breach glitches as well Passive Mode which I've seen mostly being used to attack or grief other players and I know many players use it because they just wanna drive around in peace but players were able to do that in GTA IV's Freeroam and RDR's Freeroam by means of a Friendly Freeroam which I think worked perfectly fine in both games.

YodaMan and others have mentioned the toxicity present in GTA Online, I think for some reason or another people feel they have more to lose if they die in GTA Online than if they died in GTA IV or RDR and I also think there's a higher level of competitiveness in GTA Online. I'm sure we've all come across the Bulletproof Helmet wearing tryhard that kills themselves constantly to protect their precious K/D Ratio or the sweaty pilot who is only seen out of Passive Mode when they're strafing you in their jet and although players like this do ruin the game for many in my opinion they're only there because Rockstar allows them to be there, Rockstar enables them by refusing to tweak game mechanics or fix in game exploits.

My hope is that with Red Dead Online Rockstar not only listens to the feedback they've got from GTA Online but actively listens to feedback they get from Red Dead Online regarding bugs and game mechanics after it drops.

[YodaMan 3D]

I just don't want it to be a waste of cash, cause other players intervene into my game.  Like I said, I have played and had others who were a lot farther into the online then allowed to just come in and trash me and ruin my idea of fun.  I see more and more games allowing this because players seem to enjoy it.  To me it causes players to quit buying games from a certain company cause they refuse to listen. 

[Archbell]

I see where your coming from YodaMan, although I love how GTA Online is this savage utopia where players can kill and steal from each other for personal gain but are also rewarded for working together I've often thought about how hard it would be for someone to start GTA Online now at level 1 and work their way up.

I feel like Red Dead Redemption's Multiplayer was a far more even playing field, they didn't have the stats system that GTA Online has so everyone had the same Health, Accuracy, Stamina etc. Weapons were unlocked by level but you could also pick up weapons (either from Gang Hideouts or the dead bodies of players and NPCs) and use them from session to session until you quit multiplayer or the game, there was also no tanks, jets etc only horses and a handful of vehicles all of them being horse powered and susceptible to bullets.

It's impossible to know how Red Dead Online will pan out, for me personally a lot of Red Dead Online's appeal will depend on the community that plays it. I'm hoping for a fairly mature audience, such was the case with Red Dead Redemption that had far less kids on it than Grand Theft Auto V.

I think Red Dead Redemption II will be a must have game for the Singleplayer Story alone and certainly not a waste of money but if Red Dead Online is all you want from Red Dead Redemption II then I'd suggest waiting on more information from Rockstar.

[YodaMan 3D]

I have always bought Rockstar games for the single player and then enjoyed the mulit-player to an extent.  GTA5 was the 1st where I had doubts, cause I took a long break to play other games cause the MP wasn't always able to handle the number of players that wanted to play.  It took forever to finally to get signed in.  Then cause some friends were playing it, I was sure I will try.  I found myself having to run and rerun the easy missions making almost no cash, so many players were just flying over and blowing us up if we tried to do any mission worth doing.  Only time I had fun, was I met some guys in there while I was running a mission and they flew over me the whole time, taking out anyone who came close to me.  Later on they added me to their friends lists and we ran a few missions.  Talking to them, they admitted normally they would have started bombing me, but they got bored and used me as bait to take out other players that would come too close.   So the guy who comes in at 1st level, that was me.   And much as I enjoy GTA, I rather play the campaign then play online.

[Skrylaxx]

I am going to guess it will have the background of GTA in functionality but with a more impressive front. Like it will clearly be a different theme but I can see it having more of what we liked in GTA V and less of what we didn't. I could also see a lot of new things being implemented here as well. 

[tadp0le]

It will be similar but they will or rather SHOULD have their own differences from GTA V online. It can't be a copy and paste or it will get boring fast.

[YodaMan 3D]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:58 PM, Archbell said:

From October 2013 to May 2015 if I was on my Xbox I was more often than not playing Grand Theft Auto Online, I enjoyed it but the main reason I played it was because Red Dead Redemption's Multiplayer had started to deteriorate rapidly and Rockstar gave next to no information about whether they would, could or wanted to get RDR's Multiplayer working again so I was forced to switch over to GTA Online.

I was most looking forward to Free Roam and at first I assumed GTA Online to be like GTA IV's Multiplayer and RDR's Multiplayer as all three can be put under the category of "third-person multiplayer shooter" and that's what I was looking forward to but unlike GTA IV's Multiplayer and RDR's Multiplayer where players can improve their gun skill with practise to defeat other players GTA Online makes guns useless, military tanks and jets are easily accessible and little to no effort is needed to wipe out a lobby in GTA Online especially with all the high tech military weapons, gear and vehicles that have been flowing into GTA Online following the success of the GTA Online Heists Update.

I accept that Grand Theft Auto isn't meant to be realistic and I think it's over the top action and crazy vehicles among other things is what makes the Grand Theft Auto Series great but I really feel there has been a major shift with the kind of updates GTA Online has received, it's almost like Rockstar won't put out an update unless it's got a weaponized vehicle in it. GTA Online feels more like a third-person Battlefield game nowadays.

Another issue I have is that Rockstar don't seem to want to fix things that obviously don't work in GTA Online, there are countless wall breach glitches as well Passive Mode which I've seen mostly being used to attack or grief other players and I know many players use it because they just wanna drive around in peace but players were able to do that in GTA IV's Freeroam and RDR's Freeroam by means of a Friendly Freeroam which I think worked perfectly fine in both games.

YodaMan and others have mentioned the toxicity present in GTA Online, I think for some reason or another people feel they have more to lose if they die in GTA Online than if they died in GTA IV or RDR and I also think there's a higher level of competitiveness in GTA Online. I'm sure we've all come across the Bulletproof Helmet wearing tryhard that kills themselves constantly to protect their precious K/D Ratio or the sweaty pilot who is only seen out of Passive Mode when they're strafing you in their jet and although players like this do ruin the game for many in my opinion they're only there because Rockstar allows them to be there, Rockstar enables them by refusing to tweak game mechanics or fix in game exploits.

My hope is that with Red Dead Online Rockstar not only listens to the feedback they've got from GTA Online but actively listens to feedback they get from Red Dead Online regarding bugs and game mechanics after it drops.

It's not just GTA5.  I see this in more and more in games.   It seems to draw certain players that enjoy griefing and the industry seems to want to make them happy.  To me I am a customer to and if I am not happy, I won't be buying games.  Considering that EA and Ubisoft has made my list for supporting this kind of thing.  Rockstar remembers the good ol days of RDR.

[Kean_1]

On 2/19/2018 at 10:48 AM, YodaMan 3D said:

It's not just GTA5.  I see this in more and more in games.   It seems to draw certain players that enjoy griefing and the industry seems to want to make them happy.  To me I am a customer to and if I am not happy, I won't be buying games.  Considering that EA and Ubisoft has made my list for supporting this kind of thing.  Rockstar remembers the good ol days of RDR.

I agree.  ...it's sad.

[Anc1entC0re]

Games that encourage or don't try to control players who just go on games to troll and screw other players over piss me off. 

Like I get it, people bought the game and should be able to play it however they want but it is a big reason I never gave a lot of online games a chance on PC. 

[watery buffalo]

On 2/23/2018 at 8:32 PM, Anc1entC0re said:

Games that encourage or don't try to control players who just go on games to troll and screw other players over piss me off. 

Like I get it, people bought the game and should be able to play it however they want but it is a big reason I never gave a lot of online games a chance on PC. 

Put yourself in their position. Trolls pay for the game just like everyone else. Sure, they can be annoying but they are paying just like everyone else. Why would they punish a paid customer? 

[DiamondDave]

I hate to say this but I have to agree with WB on this one. They are paying customers so there isn't a lot they will want to do to players that do this crap. 

[YodaMan 3D]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:37 AM, watery buffalo said:

Put yourself in their position. Trolls pay for the game just like everyone else. Sure, they can be annoying but they are paying just like everyone else. Why would they punish a paid customer? 

Doesn't mean I or anyone else has to buy it if that is the direction they want the game to go in.  Whose money are they more concerned on losing mine or someone elses.  I have been a Rockstar fan for a long time.  They can change that with some really bad decisions. 

[Kean_1]

Personally, I don't believe we should really blame folks for doing it since it is within the rules and it's even encouraged simply by design.   ....even in their marketing.  They essentially want people to troll each other.  It's part of the gameplay.

Do I think it's sad?  .....heck yeah.  I also don't find it fun in the least but that's what the masses enjoy.  As long as they don't cheat, they can kill and grief at will all within the rules R* has established.

I just hope RDR2 online doesn't follow the same pattern.

[Suck3rPunch3d]

On 3/1/2018 at 6:45 PM, Kean_1 said:

They essentially want people to troll each other.  It's part of the gameplay.

I don't think this is the case for all devs. Sure, they should expect it because a lot of people like to play jokes and crack on the memes but to actually encourage it? I don't see this being the case across all platforms, games, and devs.

[Kean_1]

On 3/3/2018 at 4:41 PM, Suck3rPunch3d said:

I don't think this is the case for all devs. Sure, they should expect it because a lot of people like to play jokes and crack on the memes but to actually encourage it? I don't see this being the case across all platforms, games, and devs.

Who said it was?  The context of my quote was in the discussion of GTAV specifically.  

[LinXX]

There will always be trolls, especially on popular games like GTA V that attracts people of all ages. I don't think there is any debate in that. lol

[Kean_1]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:00 PM, LinXX said:

There will always be trolls, especially on popular games like GTA V that attracts people of all ages. I don't think there is any debate in that. lol

No doubt.  I think the debate has to do with the fact that GTAV encourages/rewards troll-like behavior while others may discourage or even penalize players for it.  ......but yeah, trolls will always find ways.   

I will say that the notion GTAV may owe part of its popularity to this demographic is not lost on me.  I just hope they depart from that model in RDR2.

[Hazed0NE]

There are few games where I encountered high levels of trolling to the extent it pissed me off. 

Most CoD games, Halo 3, and GTA V. I think this is because a lot of kids were drawn to them. So you have 11 to 15-year-olds playing this games being trolls or not, which attracts people in their 20's who are trolls to troll them. It is like a cycle of crap. I don't think they will allow it so much on RDR2 because it will be modeled after the last one which has a much more serious tone in comparison to GTA games.

[GatoNegro]

CoD games are breeding grounds for 11 to 15 year olds for sure. It is funny too because they shouldn't even be playing those games... The age restriction is 17+

[Kean_1]

23 hours ago, GatoNegro said:

CoD games are breeding grounds for 11 to 15 year olds for sure. It is funny too because they shouldn't even be playing those games... The age restriction is 17+

Some of things I have heard from their mouths is also rather shocking but I can only blame the parents at that point.  .....likely a "hands off" approach to parenting.  ......bloody irresponsible is what I say.

[D3x]

Yeah parents are horrible for letting their kids play games they shouldn't. Do all kids in that age range need protection from violence in video games? I don't think so because some know the difference between reality and fiction but that is up to the parents to monitor and decide. Some kid with anger issues should never be allowed to play CoD, RDR, or any game with guns really. 

[YodaMan 3D]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:37 AM, watery buffalo said:

Put yourself in their position. Trolls pay for the game just like everyone else. Sure, they can be annoying but they are paying just like everyone else. Why would they punish a paid customer? 

I just think companies that target larger audiences need to develop different modes for all players.  Only players that benefit is the trolls.  Otherwise it cost companies customers.

Edited March 19, 2018 by YodaMan 3D

[YodaMan 3D]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:34 PM, GatoNegro said:

CoD games are breeding grounds for 11 to 15 year olds for sure. It is funny too because they shouldn't even be playing those games... The age restriction is 17+

I have seen trolls of all ages.  It's not just 11 to 15 year olds.

[DarkShark]

Yeah trolls come in all packages, heck I have even been on servers with female trolls... A rare yet very annoying treat. 

As par the OP, I think RDR2 won't do as good long term because it isn't as popular or as "mainstream" for gamers. I am sure it will sell a lot and do well overall but I can't see it being on GTA V's level.