why punish gamers for playing the game?

[juxax]

I don't get it, why can''t we:

craft during missions.. seems ****ing obvious to me, craft some tobacco or something so we're not reliant on a tiny ****in little pool to which we get stamina or dead eye from.

restart a god damn mission from the pause menu? you create this ridiculous criteria we're supposed to tick off, making the game a boring slog, but we have to find some random way of dying just to get the option to restart the piece of sh*t? having to manually reload to then reload the mission and waste more time.

the missions are hard the first time, but we can't see the criteria and then when we can see the criteria you've already ****ed us, it then becomes a painstaking boring arduous game of navigating 500 menus and manually reloading and saving. in a game where any number of random things that can happen to completely **** you up.

i can spend 9 hrs retrying 3 missions and it's becomming a chore, the amount of hours spent just wading through menus and plain oversight on rockstar's part is driving me nuts.

[DylBandit]

Clearly Red Dead isn't for you. Go play fortnite. 

[juxax]

it's not for anyone in it's current state, it's a chore in a chore.

[DylBandit]

3 minutes ago, juxax said:

it's not for anyone in it's current state, it's a chore in a chore.

How is it a chore? Your literally free to do what you want after the first chaper or so. 

[juxax]

i love everything about the game except main missions, hell yesterday i spent 8 hrs studying songbirds through binoculars and it was the most fun i've had in a game in forever, my only gripe is with story missions. they're so annoying, and when u retry it it's 10x more annoying. and it becomes a game of reloading and navigating menus. everything else about rdr2 is a dream. but the missions ruin the whole experience, because there's so ****ing many and even though u only really need 70, it's sucking every last bit of fun out of the game, one can take hours and hours.

[DylBandit]

2 minutes ago, juxax said:

i love everything about the game except main missions, hell yesterday i spent 8 hrs studying songbirds through binoculars and it was the most fun i've had in a game in forever, my only gripe is with story missions. they're so annoying, and when u retry it it's 10x more annoying. and it becomes a game of reloading and navigating menus. everything else about rdr2 is a dream. but the missions ruin the whole experience, because there's so ****ing many and even though u only really need 70, it's sucking every last bit of fun out of the game, one can take hours and hours.

Yeah I already finished the game, it wasn't that bad at all. I was more focused on the story. However, just take a break from missions, I did missions for 4 days non-stop. 

[Kean_1]

That hasn't been my experience at all.  I actually enjoy the missions when I eventually come back to them after my open world excursions in between.  In fact, it's the open world that I am spending many hours in and very few hours actually with the main story.

[MJROu812]

11 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

That hasn't been my experience at all.  I actually enjoy the missions when I eventually come back to them after my open world excursions in between.  In fact, it's the open world that I am spending many hours in and very few hours actually with the main story.

That's what I am doing as well.....the world begs you to stop and explore.

Edited November 4, 2018 by MJROu812

[Smash_N_Grab-]

No need crafting during a mission, just make sure you stock up on tonics etc before starting a mission, bit of battle prep goes a long way. Or set up your mini camp if there isn't some forced scene at beginning of mission.

Agree with you on the requirements to get gold medals though. Definately should be shown beforehand, not after. I've never been in the menus in detail during a mission though , maybe there's something in there. I'll look later.

[juxax]

i've always got maxxed out stuff, hell i have 30 weapons, 110 animals at 100% and 170 odd collectibles and im 1 mission into chapter 3. but when i replay missions i have nothing. i've done all but 4 missions gold till where i am, i've spent like 5 hrs on this one and it's confusing it should be so easy but it's not. the a strange kindness mission.

Edited November 4, 2018 by juxax

[DylBandit]

7 minutes ago, juxax said:

i've always got maxxed out stuff, hell i have 30 weapons, 110 animals at 100% and 170 odd collectibles and im 1 mission into chapter 3. but when i replay missions i have nothing. i've done all but 4 missions gold till where i am, i've spent like 5 hrs on this one and it's confusing it should be so easy but it's not. the a strange kindness mission.

I was addicted to the missions. I couldnt stop playing haha

[juxax]

1 minute ago, DylBandit said:

I was addicted to the missions. I couldnt stop playing haha

i was one of the few people that loved the beginning, i hammered them till gold i loved the snow it was like 6 hours of the hateful eight, lol amazing.

[DylBandit]

23 minutes ago, juxax said:

i was one of the few people that loved the beginning, i hammered them till gold i loved the snow it was like 6 hours of the hateful eight, lol amazing.

I loved the beginning too. To many people have ADHD and are use to fast pace games like call of duty and fortnite. Red Deads pacing is wayyyy different. 

[juxax]

the mission where you have to knock out anders without him hitting you just pisses me off. and for some reason on the video where you see a guy doing it, he has notifications popping up telling him where he's  managed to do one of the items on the list, but i can't find it anywhere.

[Poggy]

The gold trophies are pointless really, they are just for one award and no in game benefits.  If you want to know the criteria in advance, buy the guide.  I'm just ignoring the mission trophies until I'm bored with everything else.

[Kean_1]

Some folks are simply completionists and they are driven to collect every trophy, award, special weapon, etc.  Although I like to gather such things to an extent, I wouldn't consider myself one.  ......but I get why some would want to.  It can be more a sense of accomplishment than anything.

[Poggy]

Yes.  In this game, without using any guide, that would literally take you months of solid playing and would be very, very difficulty. To see every cutscene, hear every line of dialogue, trigger every stranger mission variable, loot every box, see every time sensitive Easter egg, collect every collectible, get every award and every trophy - my life, it be a full time job!

And even then, it's better to go through the story missions having FUN, and not redoing them again and again then and there, coming back to them later and fresher after doing other FUN stuff.  Trying to hit Gold every time, first time, or before moving on, is a recipe for frustration.  Imagine doing that with other areas of the game - every time you miss a perfect hunting shot reloading and trying again??  Seems a bit OTT.  

Clearly the lack of goals prior was to encourage a RPG mindset to missions, with gamist/completist mindsets to be left until after you've 'told the story' and 'played the character'.

[juxax]

every mission sucks.. you set your gear up, save, start the mission, then reload for whate ver reason and you have to set your gear up again, you die on a mission you have to wade through hours of pointless cutscenery for a 2 minute shootout with ****ing stupid criteria. im so close to trading the game in i've wasted the last 6 hrs of my life doing **** all but getting silver medals and i don't even know why so... the game doesn't tell you, doesn't give u any hints at all, you go to the help section, combat and it says "you can use melee combat" LOL seriously made by a gang of monkeys. you can grapple and throw and do **** tons of sh*t, where the info? why force us to figure all this sh*t out during story missions with time limits lol. i'll just trade it in, like i have every rockstar game i've ever bought, i knew it was a waste of both my time and cash.

[HIGHHorse]

I enjoyed what I have played this far. I haven't done everything but I did complete the story. I don't understand though why you are so angry over these simple mechanics. It isn't meant to be like other games in the sense they just copy/pasted what other games do, it should feel different as it does. 

[Poggy]

Is this a wind up?

on the chance it isn't, you have two options:

1) do the missions without caring about gold.  Come back and replay them after doing the whole story (when they will give you the criteria)

2) or, buy the guide which gives the criteria for every mission.

easy.  I suggest doing both

[Kean_1]

12 minutes ago, Poggy said:

Is this a wind up?

Yeah, I think it's apparent now.

@juxax

Every mission I've been in has given me the opportunity to either "restart" the mission or reload the last "checkpoint".  If you were doing the latter then you wouldn't have to wade through the entire mission again.  You're making the game way more difficult than it needs to be.

[Jayjoejohnlongsilver]

55 minutes ago, juxax said:

every mission sucks.. you set your gear up, save, start the mission, then reload for whate ver reason and you have to set your gear up again, you die on a mission you have to wade through hours of pointless cutscenery for a 2 minute shootout with ****ing stupid criteria. im so close to trading the game in i've wasted the last 6 hrs of my life doing **** all but getting silver medals and i don't even know why so... the game doesn't tell you, doesn't give u any hints at all, you go to the help section, combat and it says "you can use melee combat" LOL seriously made by a gang of monkeys. you can grapple and throw and do **** tons of sh*t, where the info? why force us to figure all this sh*t out during story missions with time limits lol. i'll just trade it in, like i have every rockstar game i've ever bought, i knew it was a waste of both my time and cash.

I would say u should trade the game.

Sounds like its not yours.

I cant agree to any point of your text.

You "gold-hunter-players" are prtty salty at anything from what i read at the forum so far...

[DylBandit]

1 hour ago, juxax said:

every mission sucks.. you set your gear up, save, start the mission, then reload for whate ver reason and you have to set your gear up again, you die on a mission you have to wade through hours of pointless cutscenery for a 2 minute shootout with ****ing stupid criteria. im so close to trading the game in i've wasted the last 6 hrs of my life doing **** all but getting silver medals and i don't even know why so... the game doesn't tell you, doesn't give u any hints at all, you go to the help section, combat and it says "you can use melee combat" LOL seriously made by a gang of monkeys. you can grapple and throw and do **** tons of sh*t, where the info? why force us to figure all this sh*t out during story missions with time limits lol. i'll just trade it in, like i have every rockstar game i've ever bought, i knew it was a waste of both my time and cash.

Set up gear? Each mission is so easy I can do it with my eyes closed, you don't need any gear except a few guns, and maybe health boosting, which almost costs nothing that the general store?

Cut scenes are what we like to see, the story is great if you pay attention. It's super easy to learn the controls if you think it's hard to play and if you keep dying on missions, maybe go out to a empty spot on the map, and learn the controls and how to play before you enter missions. I only died like 3 times during missions the ENTIRE game, it's really not hard. Cut scenes don't last that long, and even if it does, I embrace it, because I love the acting and story. 

[Jayjoejohnlongsilver]

8 minutes ago, DylBandit said:

Set up gear? Each mission is so easy I can do it with my eyes closed, you don't need any gear except a few guns, and maybe health boosting, which almost costs nothing that the general store?

Cut scenes are what we like to see, the story is great if you pay attention. It's super easy to learn the controls if you think it's hard to play and if you keep dying on missions, maybe go out to a empty spot on the map, and learn the controls and how to play before you enter missions. I only died like 3 times during missions the ENTIRE game, it's really not hard. Cut scenes don't last that long, and even if it does, I embrace it, because I love the acting and story. 

You forgot he is a medal hunter. So the whole playstyle of this kind of players is completly wrong for a game like Rdr2.

[Baz-Ho-Fo-Sho-24]

Trade the game if it's so much of a chore.. play the game for what it is an go back an get gold on every mission after completion. After you complete a mission the game tells you what to do to for gold.

[PZA1982]

18 hours ago, Poggy said:

ti

 

17 hours ago, juxax said:

every mission sucks.. you set your gear up, save, start the mission, then reload for whate ver reason and you have to set your gear up again, you die on a mission you have to wade through hours of pointless cutscenery for a 2 minute shootout with ****ing stupid criteria. im so close to trading the game in i've wasted the last 6 hrs of my life doing **** all but getting silver medals and i don't even know why so... the game doesn't tell you, doesn't give u any hints at all, you go to the help section, combat and it says "you can use melee combat" LOL seriously made by a gang of monkeys. you can grapple and throw and do **** tons of sh*t, where the info? why force us to figure all this sh*t out during story missions with time limits lol. i'll just trade it in, like i have every rockstar game i've ever bought, i knew it was a waste of both my time and cash.

I hope you do trade it in, as you are clearly not enjoying it. I'm not sure what you are telling us for though, we're not going to beg you. I don't see why you're so obsessed with gold medals, seems very childish to me.

[Truth]

21 hours ago, juxax said:

restart a god damn mission from the pause menu? you create this ridiculous criteria we're supposed to tick off, making the game a boring slog, but we have to find some random way of dying just to get the option to restart the piece of sh*t? having to manually reload to then reload the mission and waste more time.

Quit restarting missions, and play the game... It's a lot more fun that way.

[Marcurios]

The OP says it a bit colorful, but at some points he is right, the story missions are rigid and need to be played  pretty much exactly as Rockstar scripted them, fail to do so and you have to reload from a checkpoint, that is linear gameplay and is imo boring if you want freedom in a open world game.

These two concepts don't mix very well for a lot of people, some people will like it, but there are a lot of people that want freedom, there are also people that just want a good story, i like both, but i don't really like them mixed like Rockstar makes it's games.
On the one hand they give you freedom to explore the world, and you can make your own decicions, on the other they treat you like a child an d say you have to play it like this, or you will die and have to do it over and over till you get it right. the latter being pretty linear with often no real clues on how to accomplish it.
That means in story missions you often have to fiddle to find out how they want you to play it, and that is detrimental for the immersion factor. It kills the flow of the story.

Sadly the whole concept also makes for bad replayability cause the story is actually pretty good, so it will stick to you and thus a second time you play it when you know how you should play the missions you just want to skip the cutscenes because you still know very well how they went and that takes the fun out of it.

Now if they would have let the story missions have more freedom so you would solve it in multiple different ways to accomplish your goal, it would probably be a more fluent experience right from the get go and have a much higher replayability factor.

I make mods and projects in Unity so i'm a semi-pro gamedev, atleast i consider myself that, and i really think they need to learn to blend these two types of gameplay better, cause right now they kinda messed up the beautiful game they made.

And yes, the controls are archaic, and overcomplicated with to many button configurations and also to many bugs and bad default button configuration which are also detrimental for a smooth and enjoyable gameplay experience. The first person controller in this game is worse then the first one i programmed 14 years ago in Unity, and that is not good for a company that is so renowned, i would be ashamed if i where the CEO of Rockstar that i have such bad controls in my game, third person controller is better, but also has a lot of flaws if you look at it from a technical point of view animations can't be skipped, they need to play out, every modern game has crossfade animations that smoothly transit from one to another if you decide to do something else.

I mean, try a game like COD, or Borderlands, and feel how smooth the gameplay is, and compare this to the chunky, jittery, sluggish, rigid first person controller of any Rockstar game, and you'll know what i mean. Some people say that it is realistic, i can tell you it isn't, people who say that are probably extremely clumsy IRL, i have a black belt in Martial Arts, i'm fast and swift in what i do, i can hit a guy 5 times in a second, not once every two seconds. Just one of those things..if i make a cup of coffee i do that swiftly and smoothly, pretty much everything i do is smooth in my movements, that goes for everyone for the things they do each day multiple time IRL, your brain makes your mobility smooth if you often repeat your movements, it learns.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Marcurios

[Foxtrot]

Yup.  Play a game like CoD and you'll see how rigid the campaign missions are, and how rigid the game as a whole is.

The replayability of these games is close to zero, unless you're hunting achievements (you chump your way through a mission, kill the major with the RPG, and quit as soon as you see the cheevo pop).

RDR2 does have a high replayability as far as I'm concerned (I should know, I started over from scratch three times).  After a while, you get a feeling for how to balance the stat enhancing activities against the story missions to give you a better gameplay experience.  If you take the open-world aspect as being equal (or greater than) the story missions, things get better.  I spent over 700 hours playing RDR2, and I don't regret a minute of it (except maybe that time I left Buell on the train tracks and he got run over while I was in a post office, that kinda sucked).

The game controls are a bit clunky, but I learned to live with it and I forgave a lot.

Except Dutch, I never forgave Dutch.

[Parzival]

5 hours ago, Marcurios said:

i have a black belt in Martial Arts, i'm fast and swift in what i do, i can hit a guy 5 times in a second

And yet you apparently think "martial arts" is a singular system of combat rather than the umbrella term it actually is. As for your supposed proficiency in it, well...

So bragging about it is going to be a waste of time.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Parzival