Red dead Troll fest

[Poggy]

My proposed fixes would be:

change the way players appear on map

animation fix

A few safe zones beyond camp (like churches or sheriffs offices)

easier, cheaper fast travel

bounties/penalties for repeat killing of the same player

[madfretter]

3 hours ago, Poggy said:

My proposed fixes would be:

change the way players appear on map

animation fix

A few safe zones beyond camp (like churches or sheriffs offices)

easier, cheaper fast travel

bounties/penalties for repeat killing of the same player

All of those would be a huge help. The only thing I would add would be no bounties if you are defending yourself

[Kean_1]

8 minutes ago, madfretter said:

All of those would be a huge help. The only thing I would add would be no bounties if you are defending yourself

.....until someone finds a way around it and causes the defender to become the offender.

The Division had something similar where an player would be labeled a rogue if they shot another player.  .....until griefers realize they could goad victims into shooting them first and then wipe them out.  It happened to me when someone came at me with guns blazing.  I shot back and then was promptly killed.  It wasn't until after I realized his first shots never contacted me.  He purposely missed so that I would be the one who would be labeled the offender as I tried to defend myself.

Griefers are gonna grief.  I believe they need to do more to encourage and incentivise cooperative gameplay.   They also need to introduce (as I believe they will) private / friend session options like we have in GTAO for those of us who prefer not to play in a sandbox with randoms.  

Personally, I like the idea of much more limited player tracking (think close proximity, LOS, etc.).  This would not only make it harder for trolls but would also make player interaction much more organic IMO. 

Unfortunately, R* uses the same formula for missions where players are encouraged to rob and kill other players to interrupt their progress.  .....it's a downward spiral as people become frustrated and seek revenge on those other players, etc.  The problem with public session in R* games in my mind is that they tend to encourage conflict rather than rewarding cooperative gameplay IMO.

[Poggy]

Incentivising co-op play would be good, and could be done with cash/outfits/honor benefits

[madfretter]

GTA O was the same trollfest when it launched, they added the dunce lobbies and it lessened a lot.  If they dole out bounties to the trolls it will force them to either play the game  or leave.

[Qu3ster]

It is only in beta so I will hold my complaints till things get sorted and I see the final product.

I will say that it is a bit hectic having to deal with randoms running up on me and just shooting me for no damn reason when I am trying to hunt. 

[Pew Pew Le Pew]

I really enjoyed it until I got to town with my friend and was subsequently gunned down and the entire town turned into a cluster f***. Turned it off and went back to Single Player. The old west was not " ride into town and murder everything" or we wouldn't exist. People being shot while skinning / cut scenes??  Nah not for me.

I won't be playing again until there are separate PVE and PVP servers. 

I've never played GTAo for an extended period of time but it seems like from the comments that the system they implemented there only encouraged more trolling. So I think it would be much better with separate servers.

But let's be honest, the whole reason is to make people who don't play as often, want to spend RL $$ to get gear to keep up...which I'm not willing to do. I will pay extra $$ for addons and cool things but not just so I can survive, only to be trolled when I want to simply hunt or sell a f***ing pelt.

Lastly, I will say I love this game and it is on my top 5 of all time list, but am not going to suffer through through the way their Online system is setup. I am not too upset because I love the SP but would love to be able to hunt / quest / heist etc with a posse without being side tracked and wasting the limited time I have to actually play the game.

Separate Servers please, or have a passive mode enabled BEFORE you sign into the server and not able to troll flag. Either way , I figured I'd leave my two cents. 

 

And also to the guy in this forum that feels the need to call everyone a "Normie" or " Noob" because he disagrees with them, grow up bro.😂

[Anc1entC0re]

24 minutes ago, Pew Pew Le Pew said:

I won't be playing again until there are separate PVE and PVP servers. 

What if they choose not to do this? I know a lot of people are pissed that this isn't an option and I could understand why but a lot of the issues will be worked out during this time. 

[Pew Pew Le Pew]

20 hours ago, Anc1entC0re said:

What if they choose not to do this? I know a lot of people are pissed that this isn't an option and I could understand why but a lot of the issues will be worked out during this time. 

 

Well Maybe I worded it improperly . I more accurately mean a private play session where Myself and friends can play PVE content. 

 

I understand and don't hate on people who want to PVP, and why they would complain about people grinding up during PVE only to switch over to PVP which is why I used the term separate servers. 

How about having separate characters for PVP and PVE like MMOs do ?

[Truth]

30 minutes ago, Pew Pew Le Pew said:

How about having separate characters for PVP and PVE like MMOs do ?

I wouldn't like that. I shouldn't have to restart entirely just to join my friends that chose to play in pvp.

I still think removing players from the map would be all it takes to stop the trolling. That way, everyone can still play together without any segregation or separate servers. Trolls can still troll, but they'll have a much harder time finding people to screw with. Casual players can actually play the game, while still having to watch their backs.

[Cliffs]

On 11/28/2018 at 9:40 AM, madfretter said:

All I'm looking for is to play the game, all of the game, not just the one aspect of killing stuff. As it sits right now, it's kinda like playing rdr2 with someone constantly knocking the controller out of your hand. There was alot more to the Wild west than just killing people. 

Yeah, that is the worst part of this online for me. Would love to play free roam with the missions but most times i don't even make it to the mission start point without getting killed.

[madfretter]

22 hours ago, Anc1entC0re said:

What if they choose not to do this? I know a lot of people are pissed that this isn't an option and I could understand why but a lot of the issues will be worked out during this time. 

Idk about everyone else, but I'm good playing story mode. If I ever get the urge to deal with trolling and constant whining, I'll have kids...lol

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, Truth said:

I wouldn't like that. I shouldn't have to restart entirely just to join my friends that chose to play in pvp.

I still think removing players from the map would be all it takes to stop the trolling. That way, everyone can still play together without any segregation or separate servers. Trolls can still troll, but they'll have a much harder time finding people to screw with. Casual players can actually play the game, while still having to watch their backs.

Yeah, the whole idea of having people create a separate player for PvP sessions doesn't fly with me in this game.  The issue is that R* chose to incorporate all of the MP elements together in a public, free for all environment. In GTAVO, you have to join a public session in order to play missions, buy and run businesses, take advantage of money making opportunities, etc.  ....and right now, RDO is the same.  The idea that players can feel free to explore and engage in cooperative activities, missions, etc. while being subjected to random, persistent trolling is a fantasy.

I like the idea of removing player tracking and I agree it would help to an extent with the trolling.  I've even been an advocate of it.   .....but the more I've thought about it and been exposed to these RDO trolls, I'm beginning to think that it could also make it worse as unsuspecting players can be more easily ambushed as trolls cap mission objectives, towns and stores, post offices, etc. where players need to go to acquire items and progress through the game.  They can follow people who they hear hunting and snipe them from cover, etc., etc.  

Perhaps there is a happy middle ground that is proximity based but then again, fast movers would be undetectable until the very last minute and so on.  I'm beginning to think a passive mode and more severe consequences for random killing may be a better solution in public sessions.  Maybe if towns and mission points were safe zones as well?  I guess the point is that they are really going to need to do something to take the advantage away from these trolls. 

If R* would make everything available in invite-only, I'd be happy enough at that point.  .....but if not, then something needs to be done with the public session.

[Kean_1]

42 minutes ago, madfretter said:

Idk about everyone else, but I'm good playing story mode. If I ever get the urge to deal with trolling and constant whining, I'll have kids...lol

If I were happy with just playing the story mode, I wouldn't be posting here in the online subforum.    ....so yeah, I'd say in answer to your question that most everyone else here is interested in RDO to some extent.

[sLLiMM]

6 minutes ago, Kean_1 said:

The idea that players can feel free to explore and engage in cooperative activities, missions, etc. while being subjected to random, persistent trolling is a fantasy.

 

 I'm beginning to think a passive mode and more severe consequences for random killing may be a better solution in public sessions.

 

If R* would make everything available in invite-only, I'd be happy enough at that point.  .....but if not, then something needs to be done with the public session.

Only thing i would add, If you chose passive mode you will have to stay for the remainder of the session to avoid "Passive mode trolling" like in gta 

and could you elaborate on the "fantasy" part i didn't quite understand

[Kean_1]

1 hour ago, sLLiMM said:

Only thing i would add, If you chose passive mode you will have to stay for the remainder of the session to avoid "Passive mode trolling" like in gta 

and could you elaborate on the "fantasy" part i didn't quite understand

Yeah, good point and I agree.  There definitely needs to be ways to mitigate the issue of exploits like that.

What I meant by "fantasy" is the idea that everyone can enjoy the multiplayer experience in this type of environment.  .....in its current state.  The marketing by R* and even some of what a couple individuals have said in these forums is a pipe dream IMO. 

Quote

Red Dead Online is an evolution of the classic multiplayer experience in the original Red Dead Redemption, blending narrative with competitive and cooperative gameplay in fun new ways. Using the gameplay of the upcoming Red Dead Redemption 2 as a foundation, Red Dead Online will be ready to be explored alone or with friends, and will also feature constant updates and adjustments to grow and evolve this experience for all players.

It's fast becoming a deathmatch instead.  ....and forget about trying to "explore alone".  IMO, it's a fantasy unless they do something to drastically diminish the advantage trolls have in the game.

.....and I know there are a lot of things missing in RDO at the moment that they have already planned to add later and likely left out on purpose at launch for the sake of simplicity while they make sure the game is stable.   I just hope the coming changes and additions including things that support / encourage more cooperative gameplay and discourage griefing. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Kean_1

[KRooKeD KRoW]

IIRC, GTA:O had it's own kind of honor system.  I think it worked like if you were going around just killing players in free roam, it would transfer you and keep matching you with servers that have nothing but players doing the same.  If they add this, it could help, but it won't be good enough.  Fixing the always on blips along with that would definitely make things a lot easier for those of us that just want to be left alone.

[madfretter]

14 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

If I were happy with just playing the story mode, I wouldn't be posting here in the online subforum.    ....so yeah, I'd say in answer to your question that most everyone else here is interested in RDO to some extent.

You know my comment was in response to "what would you do if rdr O stayed the same." right? 

[madfretter]

15 hours ago, Cliffs said:

Yeah, that is the worst part of this online for me. Would love to play free roam with the missions but most times i don't even make it to the mission start point without getting killed.

Yup, currently this game is closer to Fortnite, both in the design and the other players.

[Cliffs]

Pray tell from reading all of this diatribe, what is it most of you want?

It reads like you want to be able to play the single player game with friends and NOBODY else online with you.

Where's the fun in that?

Shooting BOTS and hunting and fishing is fun but it is NOT MP online.

 

Don't get me wrong, I also hate what you are calling griefers and trolls but has that not been part of any MP online game through history?

Edited December 1, 2018 by Cliffs

[One Ranger]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 4:24 PM, Poggy said:

Someone else just grief killed me while i was skinning an animal.  I chased him all over the map (he had to kill me three time) until he quit and he disappeared.  I suggest that everytime anyone trolls you, you harass them continually as punishment.  You can even write down their names and make it a mission to kill them or ruin their missions everytime you see them on the map.  Lol

That doesn't necessarily fix the problem. Some PvP griefers would enjoy the attention.

What I do is get their PSN identity, and place a PSN block on them, and then switch servers. PSN will not place you on the same server as the little sociopaths that you've blocked. If enough people do this, then eventually the little losers will be whining that "The servers are dead! There's no one to play with except some assholes!"

But more importantly, R* needs to fix this. The game isn't fun to play except for the losers that enjoy griefing. There should be separate PvE servers. Place the griefer losers in their own little ghetto so that they can die off, like every other MMO I play.

[HuDawg]

1 hour ago, Cliffs said:

It reads like you want to be able to play the single player game with friends and NOBODY else online with you.

Where's the fun in that?

Shooting BOTS and hunting and fishing is fun but it is NOT MP online.

Seems to me people want to play online with friends...  Playing CO OP missions, ride around, hunt, fish and do what ever.  And theres lots of fun in that.  Hell i spent an hour last night dragging friends through the water with a lasso.

Shooting bots and hunting/fishing is a part MP online.  It literally is.

PVP is just one aspect of online.. And currently, IMO its the worst part of online due to auto aim.  (This is just my opinion)

But really... Where the fun of constantly being locked on to by asshole with auto aim just because they see your blip? 

 

 

Thing is this is just a beta.   They don't even have PRIVATE/INVITE only lobbies yet.  So once thats added players will be able to play in peace.

 

But this game does need friendly lobbies for PVE players.

Edited December 1, 2018 by HuDawg

[Kean_1]

8 hours ago, One Ranger said:

What I do is get their PSN identity, and place a PSN block on them, and then switch servers. PSN will not place you on the same server as the little sociopaths that you've blocked. If enough people do this, then eventually the little losers will be whining that "The servers are dead! There's no one to play with except some assholes!"

But more importantly, R* needs to fix this. The game isn't fun to play except for the losers that enjoy griefing. There should be separate PvE servers. Place the griefer losers in their own little ghetto so that they can die off, like every other MMO I play.

I didn't know a PSN block would affect matchmaking in a game like this.  I'm going to try that because the trolling has gone from bad to absolutely unbearable for me at this point.  

IMO, they need to implement a similar model as GTAVO with passive options, invite only sessions, etc.  I'm confident they will given some of the code data miners had discovered back in October that already indicated a direction toward this. 

7 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Seems to me people want to play online with friends...  Playing CO OP missions, ride around, hunt, fish and do what ever.  And theres lots of fun in that.  Hell i spent an hour last night dragging friends through the water with a lasso.

Shooting bots and hunting/fishing is a part MP online.  It literally is.

PVP is just one aspect of online.. And currently, IMO its the worst part of online due to auto aim.  (This is just my opinion)

But really... Where the fun of constantly being locked on to by asshole with auto aim just because they see your blip? 

Thing is this is just a beta.   They don't even have PRIVATE/INVITE only lobbies yet.  So once thats added players will be able to play in peace.

But this game does need friendly lobbies for PVE players.

I agree with many of your points.  

Multiplayer encompasses PvP and PvE (and everything in between) where real people are able to play the game together.  .....either cooperatively, as adversaries and/or a mix of both.  

There are plenty of games out there that include coop MP gameplay in them in some form or another that include NPCs as adversaries.  .....GRW, Destiny, Far Cry, the Division just to name a couple of the top of my head.  This is ALL considered online multiplayer.

Even R* markets RDO as a game that supports all of these types of playstyles including solo (which at this point is essentially a death sentence).  R* chose to incorporate all of these playstyles together in a public session and that needs to be balanced in order for them all to survive.  .....which I'm sure it will whether through passive options, private sessions, both or other types of solutions.  RDO right now is more of a deathmatch than anything else.

 

[Morpheus]

Online should be locked to narrow or no auto aim. 

[Hammer]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:55 AM, HuDawg said:

In GTA O i can use passive.. get close to people.. Turn it off.. KILL THEM and turn passive back on.  And do it over and over again.

1

This is exactly what 99% of passive players were doing in GTA O.  I killed hundreds of players in "passive mode" for that reason. 

 

RDRO needs an invite only Lobby so we can play with friends and avoid the 12 year olds looking to disrupt your game.

[One Ranger]

3 hours ago, Kean_1 said:

I didn't know a PSN block would affect matchmaking in a game like this.  I'm going to try that because the trolling has gone from bad to absolutely unbearable for me at this point.  

IMO, they need to implement a similar model as GTAVO with passive options, invite only sessions, etc.  I'm confident they will given some of the code data miners had discovered back in October that already indicated a direction toward this. 

I agree with many of your points.  

Multiplayer encompasses PvP and PvE (and everything in between) where real people are able to play the game together.  .....either cooperatively, as adversaries and/or a mix of both.  

There are plenty of games out there that include coop MP gameplay in them in some form or another that include NPCs as adversaries.  .....GRW, Destiny, Far Cry, the Division just to name a couple of the top of my head.  This is ALL considered online multiplayer.

Even R* markets RDO as a game that supports all of these types of playstyles including solo (which at this point is essentially a death sentence).  R* chose to incorporate all of these playstyles together in a public session and that needs to be balanced in order for them all to survive.  .....which I'm sure it will whether through passive options, private sessions, both or other types of solutions.  RDO right now is more of a deathmatch than anything else.

 

It is my understanding that a PSN block would achieve this. It basically disables the griefers' ability to network with you in any way whatsoever involving the PSN. They cannot send you messages, they cannot see your online status, and for this purpose -- they cannot be teamed up with you. You've seen how RDO's open world operates, it includes open chat with everyone on the server. PSN treats that as them being teamed with you (although the game also features "teams within teams" with the posse system). But the long and short of it is, in many years of playing on Playstations, I have never once seen a player that I blocked ever again. Today for the first time I was actually able to play in peace. Everyone on the server was just peacefully running missions, hunting, or whatnot. The few that wanted to open world PvP were actually mature and organized a specific location on the map for people that wanted to do that to go to and fight each other.

But obviously PSN blocking is an imperfect system. It only lets you get rid of trolls after they've abused yourself or someone within your perception. Hopefully Rockstar will put in private lobbies or something like that very soon so that the hassle is eliminated to begin with.

[XBOXGAMER41]

Anyone saying that its  an outlaw game, and you should kill and troll is stupid. Thats not how the wild west works. Thats how bad GTA multi player works. Real outlaws wouldn't kill randomly because there were consequences. All we ask is that there are severe punishments for trolls. Like being wanted and able to be killed for money by any player. And why not have a passive mode. 

[Netnow66]

On 12/1/2018 at 4:53 PM, One Ranger said:

It is my understanding that a PSN block would achieve this. It basically disables the griefers' ability to network with you in any way whatsoever involving the PSN. They cannot send you messages, they cannot see your online status, and for this purpose -- they cannot be teamed up with you. You've seen how RDO's open world operates, it includes open chat with everyone on the server. PSN treats that as them being teamed with you (although the game also features "teams within teams" with the posse system). But the long and short of it is, in many years of playing on Playstations, I have never once seen a player that I blocked ever again. Today for the first time I was actually able to play in peace. Everyone on the server was just peacefully running missions, hunting, or whatnot. The few that wanted to open world PvP were actually mature and organized a specific location on the map for people that wanted to do that to go to and fight each other.

But obviously PSN blocking is an imperfect system. It only lets you get rid of trolls after they've abused yourself or someone within your perception. Hopefully Rockstar will put in private lobbies or something like that very soon so that the hassle is eliminated to begin with.

As we've seen from the latest update and even forthcoming content, Rockstar doesn't seem to put anti griefing at the forefront of their priorities, at least not in the beta. The upcoming changes mentioned don't seem to be what I was hoping for but there's no real way to know if their implementation will really affect griefing until they are actually implemented. At this point, I'm kind of hoping some other devs or company have been paying attention and pull a Fortnite move--but then allow PvE in their game.

If the PSN block works, that might be one way to address part of the issue in Red Dead 2 online. A few lists of known griefers to add to block lists might not be much but it would be more than what Rockstar is offering at this point.

Can anyone else verify if this works?

Edited January 11, 2019 by Netnow66
added block list info

[Kean_1]

7 hours ago, Netnow66 said:

As we've seen from the latest update and even forthcoming content, Rockstar doesn't seem to put anti griefing at the forefront of their priorities, at least not in the beta. The upcoming changes mentioned don't seem to be what I was hoping for but there's no real way to know if their implementation will really affect griefing until they are actually implemented. At this point, I'm kind of hoping some other devs or company have been paying attention and pull a Fortnite move--but then allow PvE in their game.

The near future updates that are coming are mostly aimed at helping mitigate the issue of griefing / gameplay balance.  They will include Parley changes, a new bounty system, proximity based blips and blips that change color / increase range on griefers.  As for how these will play out, I agree that we'll just have to see.  .....but personally, I wouldn't say R* isn't making anti-griefing a priority.

7 hours ago, Netnow66 said:

If the PSN block works, that might be one way to address part of the issue in Red Dead 2 online. A few lists of known griefers to add to block lists might not be much but it would be more than what Rockstar is offering at this point.

Can anyone else verify if this works?

I can't say for sure if it works but I have blocked a lot of people.  .....I mean a lot.  I also do what I call proactive blocks against players in a session where I will sometimes observe their actions or even lock them based on their honor level in posses and/or gamertags, descriptions in profiles, etc.  

I will say that I have yet to run into someone in a session that I have already tried to block.  .....don't know if that means anything given statistics but I'm going to keep doing it until I discover otherwise.

I also will report trolls in-game for disruptive behavior when appropriate.

I think I'll send a message to Sony to see what they say.  IIRC, blocked players are also supposed to be blocked from the sessions you join.

[Netnow66]

On 1/11/2019 at 11:15 AM, Kean_1 said:

The near future updates that are coming are mostly aimed at helping mitigate the issue of griefing / gameplay balance.  They will include Parley changes, a new bounty system, proximity based blips and blips that change color / increase range on griefers.  As for how these will play out, I agree that we'll just have to see.  .....but personally, I wouldn't say R* isn't making anti-griefing a priority.

I can't say for sure if it works but I have blocked a lot of people.  .....I mean a lot.  I also do what I call proactive blocks against players in a session where I will sometimes observe their actions or even lock them based on their honor level in posses and/or gamertags, descriptions in profiles, etc.  

I will say that I have yet to run into someone in a session that I have already tried to block.  .....don't know if that means anything given statistics but I'm going to keep doing it until I discover otherwise.

I also will report trolls in-game for disruptive behavior when appropriate.

I think I'll send a message to Sony to see what they say.  IIRC, blocked players are also supposed to be blocked from the sessions you join.

Your post has given me a lot to think about.

Typically, while I wait for the game to come out of beta or for better anti griefing methods to be implemented, I only log in occasionally using the quick mission feature to play my favorites and call it a day. But I think I may log in and keep your blocking methods, especially the proactive blocks, to see if my online play is more fun.

I will also contact Sony to see if I can get more information on how they are handling this game.

Thanks again for giving my other options to investigate.