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Red Dead Online Generating Less Revenue Than GTA Online


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Red Dead Online is struggling to gain momentum in spite of the impressible popularity and success of Red Dead Redemption 2's single player portion.

While Arthur's story is both critically acclaimed and popular, Red Dead Online has been facing challenges and criticisms ever since it was launched.

According to analytics site SuperData, Red Dead Online isn't just being outperformed by its cousin Grand Theft Auto Online, it's losing ground.

The RDR2 multiplayer mode has earned 14% less revenue month-over-month in January, indicating a drop in players and engagement with "recurrent spending opportunities".

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It's worth reiterating that Red Dead Online is only in its Beta phase. Over the past few months Rockstar has been accepting player feedback regarding just about every aspect of the game.

Several updates have been released which sought to incorporate this feedback in an actionable manner to achieve a better game experience.

However, it seems many players are content with letting others iron out the creases, and are waiting until this Beta phase is over to start playing. While Rockstar initially stated that they reserve the right to wipe progress and characters at the end of the Beta phase, they have since corrected that and indicated that no such wipe is planned. This is reinforced by the fact that microtransactions have been made available, allowing players to spend real money to get gold bars, with which they can purchase items.

Rockstar has also started adding in new content alongside the tweaks and features, however that hasn't gone over too well. Griefing has been, and remains, a problem in Red Dead Online and an effective countermeasure has yet to be developed, which is likely a large factor in players being scared off.

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Another factor may be the in-game economy, which remains rather imbalanced. The rate at which players can earn gold nuggets is disproportional to the prices of items which are available. The feeling of being backed into using microtransactions is stronger than in the case of GTA Online, even though many fans of that game would complain about the same thing.

Red Dead Online is a wholly different beast from GTA Online, but the basis of comparison is still there - both are multiplayer components attached to major AAA Rockstar Games releases. Granted, GTA Online has had over 5 years to accrue popularity and a huge player base, but under normal circumstances, a 5-year-old game is already in a downward spiral.

The shoes left by the multiplayer experience set in Los Santos are impossibly big since it is an industry outlier that broke not only records but trends and molds. It has millions upon millions of active players bolstered by over 100 million copies of the game being sold, two decades of brand recognition and even more publicity than Red Dead Redemption 2 had. Grand Theft Auto is also much less mature, and therefore more accessible to a casual audience than Red Dead.

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When comparing the two games, it's not just the revenue of the Online mode that shows a gap. In January 2019, Red Dead Redemption 2 was the 8th best selling game on consoles. GTA 5 was 4th. A more than five year old game is moving more copies than one of last year's biggest hits. It was always anticipated that Red Dead Redemption 2 wouldn't match GTA 5's success due to the smaller target audience, and this data proves those anticipations correct.

We'll see if Red Dead Online picks up speed as it exits the Beta phase. Rockstar is still working on fixing issues and adding features, so the game might look a whole lot different half a year down the track than it does now. Hopefully those changes will bring the player base needed to ramp up revenue.

The post Red Dead Online Generating Less Revenue Than GTA Online appeared first on RDR2.org.

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Yeah, well honestly, GTA has a fan base going back to when it was a top down PC game that came on floppy disks... not to mention it’s online has been tweaked and developed since the last console generation. RDR is only in its third incarnation (if your even counting red dead revolver... a fun game but I liked Gun better at the time). The online isn’t even released in its final form yet (still a beta, however much everyone complains about it), and has only been out a couple months.

so we have a smaller fan base to start with, and a game in a phase where people these days that seem to have the attention span of a goldfish can’t bother logging in unless they can just ride around shooting and blowing people up, because ‘content man’... so now that the bounty is in place, all the murder hobos have nothing better to do and moved on to something else where they can indiscriminately kill for no reason for a while.

once the games been balanced out, tweaks have been made and content starts coming out regularly people will come back. I really don’t think anyone really expects a game in a testing phase to out compete a game that has been fully developed and has a half decade of continuous growth and play behind it.

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If there arent enough players there will be no "content" or updates in the future imo and beta or not but this online part needs more stuff to do. But it is all a matter of taste i guess but i want to have fun playing games, i wanna be entertained and escape from reality when i can. The atmosphere is top notch but delivering mail, picking flowers and shooting birds is not my idea of fun. It Will probably grow and expand but the real question is will players return ? Me, maybe, maybe not, it depends on what they add. Houses, clothing, ufos and such i can live without to be honest 🙏

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I think GTA is probably on its way out after all this time... RDR2 is probably where they hope to make money while we wait a few more years for the next GTA. They won’t let it die I think. But what do I know... Other than I like RDR2 and will likely keep playing it off and on among other discount used games That catch my fancy (as well as the odd new title that comes out) until a game comes out to make it worth my money to buy a PS5.

 

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Twelve year old children should not be the target audience. This game has the potential to be truly great. After playing games starting on Tandy PC, with DOS to present day consoles, Xbox One, in my case. I believe in this truly rich, deep and complex game.

Edited by jnaron_ngc
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Great article and playing the game, reading this forum the last couple of days these are my thoughts on this subject and the new update…

I understand completely that a business is in the business of making money, and these games cost money so I try to look at it from a fair and balanced perspective..

Positive note they fixed my horse losing skin issues and that’s a big plus but

 

My RDO recent gripes…

 

  • New bounty system.  Someone shoots at me I shouldn't get a bounty for them missing or me getting revenge.  It's only a couple $’s but it's just a dumb system.
  • You can’t see other players until they’re already on top of you or unless they’ve gone purple/red.  How does this help with griefing and if...
  • Someone shoots me in the back as I pull into a butcher, why should I lose the horse skins?  Demotivating and dumb system.
  • Bugs, bugs and more bugs.  Update really didn’t fix much... I still crash often, stranger missions tap out (as others have noted) and last night my horse had a black core (which seemed to be a display issue).  Sometimes that’s demotivating.
  • My satchel went from 20 to 10 on Big game meat.  That's a major Nerf if it wasn't a bug.
  • I burn through Dead Eye and seem to need more Potions and Revives than B4.  I’ve been down that whole POT and REV avenue and it’s getting played...
  • My guns seem to get dirty pretty quick.  Sometimes I gotta clean my guns multiple times in a row.  Maybe a bug or a monetization scheme which leads me to ...

My long term issues (game related, not mentally)

 

What am I building for or why should I spend money, update really didn't add anything..

  • I got tons of clothes now and the new ones are kinda lame.
  •    I'm not going to wear bright neon colors on a battlefield
  • I've got a full deck of tier 3 passives and $900 is too much for them.  Some seem to do nothing. Maybe 1 or 2 more I would like to build but too much grind.
  • I've got almost every type of gun and have already got favorites…
  • Rare shotgun was a waste, it's powerful but other shotguns are better
  • I've got every other repeater and don't use them, I prefer rifles and shotguns.
  • it's not like they can introduce a grenade launcher or chain gun like in GTO.  If they do it’s pretty messed up and “sell out”
  • GTAO has a wider range of stuff they can sell

Bottom line is that the economy is still out of whack and there is just too many bugs.

 

As far as solutions I don't really have allot of suggestions for R* for them but…

 

  • Introduce a wild west no holds barred or deathmatch free roam.  Let griefers just Duke it out away from hunters/gatherers.
  • Expand the range on blue dots.
  • They need to introduce reasons for me to consider spending real $.  Nothing worth it and economy is just out of whack. Content is key.
  • Bounty system needs to be reworked.

My biggest issue is the whole monetization schemes of P2P and P2P.

I give them real $ and I start winning is just getting played.  I just left a game because it was a never ending cash grab and left the one b4 that for same reason.  Maybe I'm just tired of that model.

Would I pay a subscription for exclusive content, maybe? Right now given the beta state $9.99 for 25 bricks doesn't do nothing for me.

 

Sorry for long post, snow day

Edited by Dissention
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I Honestly think people forget about GTA in the earlier days. I remember many rants at the time how everyone was going to stop playing when heists never came out update after update... Or Beach Bum DLC? Man, this sucks. Boycott R*!!! Yet to this day people are still playing, still spending money and still complaining every time something new comes along... 

Bottom line, I don’t really think YouTube ranters, people making noise on Internet forums and a news report about how a yet to be completed game in beta isn’t raking in as much as a game that’s been established back when most of the newer gamers were playing match the colours with Mickey Mouse show that the game is on its death bed..

but who knows? They may be right.

on a side note, I think the loudest complainers may also be the people least likely to be the ones dropping cash on micro transactions in the first place. Often the very first complaints I see are along the lines of ‘Now they’re making it pay to win. Greedy money grubbing corporation. I’m not playing anymore’

Edited by The_Liquor
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GTA Online in its early days was god awful.  GTAO didn't really become enjoyable for me until late spring of 2014.  I'm giving RDO the same chance.  Letting Rockstar work on their online portion while I still enjoy single player.  I didn't buy RDR2 for the online part of the time.  It's just an added bonus.  It obviously needs work.  That's why it's a beta.  

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31 minutes ago, NerfThisBabe said:

GTA Online in its early days was god awful.  GTAO didn't really become enjoyable for me until late spring of 2014.  I'm giving RDO the same chance.  Letting Rockstar work on their online portion while I still enjoy single player.  I didn't buy RDR2 for the online part of the time.  It's just an added bonus.  It obviously needs work.  That's why it's a beta.  

This.

That's why I'm not bent out of shape over how things are going. I got more than my money's worth in single player. One of the most enjoyable games I've ever played, so I'm pretty damn patient with the online portion. While I wait (as I've cut down a bit on the hours I spend online), I can catch up on other games I've been wanting to play.

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1 hour ago, Renascent said:

One of the most enjoyable games I've ever played, so I'm pretty damn patient with the online portion.

Fair point.  I'd also add that a lot of folks, such as myself, are hesitant to throw money at anything with a "beta" tag still attached.  The way I look at it, I'm not going to pay for micro transactions when I have no idea what the final, launch price of the items will end up being, or how the economy is going to end up skewing.  

Once they go 'official launch', I'll revisit and make a determination, but I've been burned way too many times in the past when it comes to titles in "beta" to feel comfortable ponying up more money for a hat or boots.

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1 hour ago, NerfThisBabe said:

GTA Online in its early days was god awful. 

GTA O was at its best before heists.  Which is its early days.


Actual free aim lobbies..    No BST.  No instant ammo fills.  No flying bikes or jets on demand.  No piles of OP vehicles all over the place.

 


At the same time.  RDO has no private lobbies or free aim lobbies.  Has not way to choose specific game modes to play.   RDO launched with all the minor things missing.

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5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

GTA O was at its best before heists.  Which is its early days.


Actual free aim lobbies..    No BST.  No instant ammo fills.  No flying bikes or jets on demand.  No piles of OP vehicles all over the place.

 


At the same time.  RDO has no private lobbies or free aim lobbies.  Has not way to choose specific game modes to play.   RDO launched with all the minor things missing.

I agree... though it hasn’t really ‘launched’ yet if it’s still in Beta. I don’t recall 100%, but I’m not sure if GTA had different lobby options for the first year or so either... maybe freeaim will never be a thing. Personally I find trying to be accurate trying to point a little white dot around in third person view next to impossible, though I’m getting to an age where my eyes ain’t as good and my thumbs don’t have a lifetime of muscle memory built up from playing with gaming Controllers from birth...

anyway, you need to have some god damn faith... there’s a plan!

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4 hours ago, Dissention said:

Positive note they fixed my horse losing skin issues and that’s a big plus but

 

 

I have not been blessed with pelts being persistent on my horse after disconnect or death.

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6 minutes ago, jnaron_ngc said:

I have not been blessed with pelts being persistent on my horse after disconnect or death.

Just to clarify 

Actually I still lose them on disconnect, death and if I join a showdown free  room.

Only time I seem to keep them is if someone kills me while on a daily mission. 

I "lost a full load" last night  on a crash as it seems if I hit max meat and just keep piling skins it crashes out on me

B4 the update I couldn't sell most 3* and some 2*.   That cost me boat load of $'s and time.  It was frustrating 

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2 hours ago, Born Homicidal said:

lmao we are now in the ERA where gamers think its okay for a game to be crappy at the start and then becoming great after 3-5 years of content.

 

smh i miss the days where developers actually released good complete games..

When Was this era? I’ve played literally hundreds of games dating back to old Atari... they had glitches and bugs and imbalance and all sorts of problems too... the only difference now is things are more easily patched and fixed lol

Edited by The_Liquor
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8 hours ago, HuDawg said:

GTA O was at its best before heists.  Which is its early days.


Actual free aim lobbies..    No BST.  No instant ammo fills.  No flying bikes or jets on demand.  No piles of OP vehicles all over the place.

 


At the same time.  RDO has no private lobbies or free aim lobbies.  Has not way to choose specific game modes to play.   RDO launched with all the minor things missing.


I do agree with you.  I was never into heists and only did them when friend's needed an extra person.  I've not played GTA Online in months.  It's not fun anymore for my game style.  

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9 hours ago, HuDawg said:

GTA O was at its best before heists.  Which is its early days.


Actual free aim lobbies..    No BST.  No instant ammo fills.  No flying bikes or jets on demand.  No piles of OP vehicles all over the place.

 


At the same time.  RDO has no private lobbies or free aim lobbies.  Has not way to choose specific game modes to play.   RDO launched with all the minor things missing.

I wonder if the day will come, we’ll look back and think ‘RDR was best in the beta days. No flying unicorns shitting dynamite, no over powered war wagons with twin machine guns, or crips following you around with a fully stocked ammo wagon...’

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That’s the thing... I don’t imagine anyone with an actual stake in the game (financially) is expecting it to take off and outpace another, already established game. They’re betting on the long term success and likely knew it wouldn’t be raking in piles of cash while it’s in the beta phase, or likely even or the first little while after the full release. 

It seems to be the bloggers and the YouTubers spreading all the doom and gloom. But they need their click bait to keep views on their channels up, or they might have to get real jobs and stop playing video games all day every day lol.

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20 hours ago, The_Liquor said:

I agree... though it hasn’t really ‘launched’ yet if it’s still in Beta. I don’t recall 100%, but I’m not sure if GTA had different lobby options for the first year or so either... maybe freeaim will never be a thing

 

Ya GTA O had free aim from the start.   By the time it went to xbox one and ps4.  They actually added a auto aim to free aim in the form of 'free aim assisted aim'.  R* logic at its finest. 

12 hours ago, NerfThisBabe said:


I do agree with you.  I was never into heists and only did them when friend's needed an extra person.  I've not played GTA Online in months.  It's not fun anymore for my game style.  

Well the heists themselves where fun.  But this is also when R* added Insurgents and Fighter Jets to be purchased in game,

R* then started to add these business DLCs that where, for some weird reason are locked to public session.  While at the same time adding more and more OP vehicles to the game.  And in game options that really ruined any sort of balanced game play..

Like..  Biker Business is a great concept an fun.  But its locked to public sessions..    So you're then stuck doing these biker fetch missions with slow vehicles in lobbies with players in fighter jets that can just dive bomb and slaughter players.

But GTA O is a mixed bag..a huge mixed bag.  Despite its issues, theres a lot of things to do.   Also being able to play private/invite only session allowed different communities to thrive.

 

 

GTA O had racing crews, that play in private races and held events and  played competitively.  Also had the ability to just play public races.        

GTA O pvp crews that players in private matches for actual competitive play.  Also had the ability to play public pvp.  

 

RD O doesn't have the option for private lobbies, no hosts that can change the rules/settings/game mode.    The last Red Dead did..   But not this one for some stupid reason.

R* killed off any sort of actual competitive communities from forming.  

At this point im just holding my breathe till the end of the beta.  If this is all this game is.. Is one BIG public mess of a free lobby with no way to host or pick what game modes to play.    

 

 

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All anyone can do is just wait and see how things shape up. It just seems no one has any patience and takes everything that comes out as some kind of personal slight. I like to think that it’ll eventually shape up to be a decent game, it already is if you ask me, though it does need tweaking. As for content, it’ll come and with every new thing that comes along there will be bloggers, youtubers and message board complainers ranting on all about how each thing ranges from being a worthless upgrade to a game ruining disaster.

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If we look at RDO realistically, the game being played in a completely different setting and thus attracting a more "mature" crowd compared to GTAO the major thing I feel that the game just sincerely lacks the basics of a real MMO from the start and this will not change. In my opinion a lot of the more mature players want to play real missions (dungeons) in co-op mode , want a bit of PVP, but foremost they want to feel like their character is part of a real world in the Wild West, with a dynamic economy and building your fortune in a bit more sophisticated way (or mature) compared to GTAO. In essence I think a lot of people would love Elder Scrolls Online in the Wild West setting. Have trading guilds / Hunting / Gold miners etcetera. However these basic interplayer in depth game aspects are just not there from the start by Rockstar design. The setup is too similar to GTAO and in the end will cacter to the GTAO crowd which will be vastly less invested in RDO longer term due the limits the setting brings compared to the modern GTAO setting. I fear this is the error in Rockstar's thought process regarding RDO or indeed it is just regarded as a time passer for a new episode of GTAO in future time.

The game looks great and is fun at times, but the path Rockstar takes catering to the correct target audience seems off to me. In my opinion it should have gone the Elder Scrolls Online way to become a succes (with monthly subscribed+ content if the player wants). I haven't touched RDO after the update, mainly because the added content did not cater to me and still doesn't plus I bought Anthem and have the Divison 2 lined up. I most likely will check mainly on the forum regarding new updates around the game, but it is going to be difficult to get my attention back along with the 20+ players I played daily with. If I look at the online people now I see perhaps 2 of them still playing RDO.

I truly hope Rockstar will put efforts into great future content updates, I'd like to return to it once it actually becomes a mature environment that feels like a dynamic world.

To all the people ranting on about patience and attention span of nowadays gamers, please stop. The game industry has become greedy and lazy and are 20000% money driven in stead of truly building a dedicated playerbase. All major titles have been rushed the last 2 years and are full of bugs and lack content. Please stop pretending this is a normal thing. Games have become more expensive and provide less and less content or aren't balanced out properly due to rushing the game.

In essence people pay more for buggy and rushed content, no wonder gamers all over the world complain more and more, it is justified to do so (to a certain degree of course).

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Or... just don’t by games... comparing games of yesteryear, most of which could be contained on a couple floppy disks, or later on a CD or two, and could be played through in a single sitting if you were bored and sat up for a few hours one night, to the most recent games that would take a roomful of PCs like my first one just to store the data and  be played for hundreds of hours without seeing all the content... And considering the games of yesteryear cost about the same or possibly even more considering the value of 20th century money to our 21st century money... You could argue we are getting much more gaming value for our bucks in the modern era. And those old games were every bit as flawed and bugged and full of errors upon release. 

Yeah, I’ll admit gaming companies want to make as much money as possible off their products, and online is the current method of doing so. Every company wants to make money. People out there fork over mountains of cash totaling more than the average guy will earn in their whole life time and they expect a return on that investment that outweighs the risk they take investing. You wanna play, you gotta pay. Or perhaps start some non profit gaming  charity service or something...

 

on a side note, people complained back in the day as well... Only instead of the instant gratification of posting a gripe on reddit, you had to actually write a letter to Nintendo Power Magazine or some other niche publication and wait for the next few issues to see if they published it 😂 

Edited by The_Liquor
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I agree @The_Liquor

Sure, games have become more expensive.   ......to make.  Game prices on the other hand have remained relatively unchanged for years.  

AAA game companies have a responsibility to their customers but they also have a responsibility to their shareholders.  This is a business.  A business that needs to make money but also needs to appeal to its consumers.  You can't do one without the other.  If consumers were not buying the product and continuing to play, these games would not continue to exist.  

Online games are moving to a GaaS model.  A model that relies on MTXs to survive.  In R*s case, these are MTXs that are not P2W based but essentially all cosmetic.  The more people you can get to play your online game (including those that never buy MTXs), the more money the company stands to make, the more content they are able to release and the longer they are able to sustain it.

The fact is that R* has one of the most successful GaaS models to date with GTAO.  If I had to put my money on the doom & gloom'ers or R* on RDOs success, I'll take R*.  Now, that doesn't mean that I won't agree with everything they do in the game.  Hell, I may even shelve it at some point.  .....but I can't buy into the implications of many of these opinion pieces, articles, etc. that RDO is on a path to failure because some people can't accept that the game is in beta and continues to be a work in progress.  ....something R* & 2K have been very clear about since before release.

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On 3/5/2019 at 8:11 AM, Renascent said:

I don't know why people expect a ton of money being generated by a "beta" game that's only 3 -4 months old.

Exactly.

I know R has said no reset but with all the complaints from those who have a high level about content in game, what will there be for them to keep playing upon full release if they are "gods" amongst us lowly cowboys.

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